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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Will be doing the Roe in the near future and I want to set my car up, /images/graemlins/gr_driving3.gif(97 GTS)?
 

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Why did you choose Roe?, just asking, not trying to start anything.
 

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Anyway...HMS headers perform well, Belanger is good with the Crower rockers (this is just what I have read) /images/graemlins/freak3.gif Depends man...there are several others that work well.
 

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i'll see what i think about my headers when i get my car back, i have belangers....they sure look awesome with that jet-hot coat, but that will be burned off before long :bawling:
 

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The Crowers aren't bad. I have read numerous articles with people using them on Vipers who are pleased. Normally not used on Vipers though I know, but with the ones I have read they do well. It was only a suggestion and by far probably not the best. :twocents: T&D are better I hear.
 

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A local guy with a 40K-mile 96 picked up about 50HP from just going to Edelbrocks and hi-flow cats, no other mods, on a bone-stock engine. I don't think he even has smooth tubes yet.

And the dyno day where he showed the extra 50HP was on a BAD day -- it was so hot and humid, everyone else LOST power compared to the last dyno day a few months back (in some cases, in spite of mods that should have showed gains).
 

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I have the 1 3/4" primary tubes Belangers on mine. With the first model VEC2, S&B air filters and smooth tubes, 70 mm throttle bodies, Random Tech Ultra High flow cats, 3" Corsa catback, and the Roe Supercharger I dynoed at 580.4 rwHP at 5750 RPM, but that's where the dyno run ended and the curve was still going up-Up-UP (dyno run should have gone to 6,000 RPM but it ended early), and the torque was 607.6 rwTorque at 2900 RPM. (All figures SAE corrected)
 

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Sgt. Snatch said:
Anyway...HMS headers perform well, Belanger is good with the Crower rockers (this is just what I have read) /images/graemlins/freak3.gif Depends man...there are several others that work well.
Sgt. Snatch said:
The Crowers aren't bad. I have read numerous articles with people using them on Vipers who are pleased. Normally not used on Vipers though I know, but with the ones I have read they do well. It was only a suggestion and by far probably not the best. :twocents: T&D are better I hear.
Ummmmm maybe you should know what you talk about on TECHNICAL discussion before you start posting BULLSHIT. Crower rockers are known to have in MANY instances drop valves on vipers and wreck valvetrains. But since you own a viper :rolleyes: you should know. Crower is said to be much worse than Arrow, which doesnt hold a candle to T&D. Talk about being irresponsible in posting :rolleyes: Just where are you getting your information from? Are you scooping your infinite wisdom from your asshole, or from the dumpster outside your residence. Let me know, I would be interested in finding out where the Sgt Snatch encyclopedia of viper bullshit is hidden. This type of "reckless" posting is why the internet only has SOME believable information. You want to try to "fit in" so you spout some smidgeon of teddy ruxpin type of stories on roller rockers when some unknowing fool might actually become the victim of your Sgt Ruxpin Fairy Tales.
 

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brutal, wow
 

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Makaha said:
brutal, wow
Isn't it? Its not like I said they were the best. It was a few things I have read. And how can you sit there and criticize me just because I don't have a Viper? Jerome doesn't have one and he knows his shit pretty well.....does that mean that he is the only one, fuck no. I can't believe you would stoop to such a low level by saying "oh you don't have a Viper" just so you can flame me. I read .org, I know a lot of stuff. Crower goes either way on .org. Do a search, look for yourself before you sit here and try and flame me. Read the post again, I never claimed it was the best, it was a suggestion of what he could do. Its personal preference. I mentioned T&D as probably the best, what else do you want from me Smokin? I have a right to make suggestions although they may not be the best but I still have a right. There are many people on this site that don't have Vipers that contribute everyday, does this mean they are idiots too? And I don't give a fuck if I fit it or not, this is just an internet site I am interested in and post on and the fact that since I live in Austin for the VA get together is why I am going to it. I don't care that if I don't have a Viper...I don't care if someone doesn't like me, will I ever see them again? Probably not and am I almost 30 with no sign of committing to someone ever /images/graemlins/applause.gif or have a successful job yet to where I can pay for a Viper, FUCK NO. Come 5-6 years Smokin I will have a Viper and it will be better than yours since technology is improving. I am only 21 and still in college, give me a break.

IBSmokingiveslowblowstotheViperlesspopulation
 

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The question really should be, "Which headers Are Not the Most Powerful". And the answer is:

Borla - primary tubes are too small to do anything.
Hooker - seeing them is believing
Edelbrock - the collector leaves a lot to be desired

OK, so what about everybody else? TNT, SVS, B&B, CDI, Bellanger and others all say theirs are the best and theirs make the most power and yadie yadie ya. I guess I would be guilty of saying the same thing in the past too.

In reality, the aforementioned headers all probably make within 10 rw hp of each other - including the ones built at Hennessey Performance. That is the bottom line truth whether any of the makers will admit it or not.

So if any of these good headers will make a 40-50 rw hp gain on a 97 GTS with a good 3 in. exhaust and no cats, then which one do you chose?

In my opinion, if the HP is all very close, then quality of construction and price are the determining factors.

If you want to pay $2K+ for a set of mild steel Viper headers and you think that is a good deal, then I will not argue with you. I would simply ask the question of "show me a endurance race car or any aircraft in the world that uses mild steel for its exhaust system?".

Coated vs. non-coated? Well if you use mild steel as your tube and collector material, you have to coat them or they will rust. Mild steel is about 1/4 the cost of stainless in terms of material costs, cost to weld, cost to cut, etc.

Some Viper header makers actually coat their headers. Some use high temp spray paint - I am not kidding!

Some headers fit better than others. Sometimes, the headers that are the hardest to fit actually make the most power due to their longer or equal tube lengths.

So there is some food for thought for everyone. So next time you get a header salesman telling you, "we invented the header and ours makes 60 rw hp and more than my competitor, that dirty SOB blah blah blah", just remember you heard it here first.
 

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Sgt. Snatch said:
Makaha said:
brutal, wow
Isn't it? Its not like I said they were the best. It was a few things I have read. And how can you sit there and criticize me just because I don't have a Viper? Jerome doesn't have one and he knows his shit pretty well.....does that mean that he is the only one, fuck no. I can't believe you would stoop to such a low level by saying "oh you don't have a Viper" just so you can flame me. I read .org, I know a lot of stuff. Crower goes either way on .org. Do a search, look for yourself before you sit here and try and flame me. Read the post again, I never claimed it was the best, it was a suggestion of what he could do. Its personal preference. I mentioned T&D as probably the best, what else do you want from me Smokin? I have a right to make suggestions although they may not be the best but I still have a right. There are many people on this site that don't have Vipers that contribute everyday, does this mean they are idiots too? And I don't give a fuck if I fit it or not, this is just an internet site I am interested in and post on and the fact that since I live in Austin for the VA get together is why I am going to it. I don't care that if I don't have a Viper...I don't care if someone doesn't like me, will I ever see them again? Probably not and am I almost 30 with no sign of committing to someone ever /images/graemlins/applause.gif or have a successful job yet to where I can pay for a Viper, FUCK NO. Come 5-6 years Smokin I will have a Viper and it will be better than yours since technology is improving. I am only 21 and still in college, give me a break.

IBSmokingiveslowblowstotheViperlesspopulation
RIIIIGHT. Stop trying to twist the situation around to seem like the information you gave was harmless. I would like to see WHO said that installing crowers was the prudent thing to do. Why dont you give a couple tuners a call and ask them what they think? Giving out incorrect advice often has consequences especially when it can cost an engine rebuild on a Viper. Incorrect advise like that is bad independent of whether you own a viper, age or social-economic status. To talk out with your asshole spewing bullshit is irresponsible and misleading. Especially when its just for the sake of talking about something you know nothing about. Stop doing shit to just fit in, use some common sense and ethics. Shit, imagine if someone listened to your bantering and dropped a valve. Im not going to take it easy on you if you are spouting bullshit for the sake of bullshitting.

WAR TECH ADVISE FROM TEDDY RUXPIN
 

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belangers no doubt the best
 

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coat em
 

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Sgt. Snatch said:
The Crowers aren't bad. I have read numerous articles with people using them on Vipers who are pleased. Normally not used on Vipers though I know, but with the ones I have read they do well. It was only a suggestion and by far probably not the best. :twocents: T&D are better I hear.
Crowers are a horror. Just ask Dave Weaver for those pics he took of the Crowers that munched the entire top end of a Viper motor to the tune of $8000 for the owner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
T&D's are in the works , then some good headers , then the Roe because it seems to be the best bang for the buck. Thanks guys for all the information. I still need to make a decision on the headers. Has anyone heard anything about Vipermed's ,(Scott at Elite in Fla.) new Headers that he is building?
 
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