[RSI950]

what\'s up with the SC guys?

Out of curiosity, Why are all the supercharged guys on each others throats? Its like a tuner war over at the VCA. As usual its between the Heffner and the DLM camp. How come the NOS guys don't do the same thing? or even the TT guys.
I am going to call Jason and Doug tomorrow, so I can set up a picnic table at the shootout so the three of us can just sit back and watch the fight :fight:
Who want's the front row , its free :cheers:

 

[SRT Mike]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I talked to a guy who, I think, had the exact right idea.

Whenever someone spends this kind of money on an SC kit, they want to feel confident of their decision. It's natural to bash the competition because, in their minds, it makes them feel like they made the right choice.

I have my own opinion on who does more of the bashing, but suffice it to say one group spent more $$ than the other and makes up for it with verbiage, IMO of course.

The worst part is both tuners produce reliable cars that perform very well. I have my own biases and know who I would go with if/when I get one of these kits, but regardless of whichever camp you are in, nobody can deny the accomplishments of the other camp.

 

[GaryA]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I agree with Mike. I'm not sure exactly how things spiral downward, but when someone asks a question about their SC system, I have no problem telling people about my experience and my opinion of Jason Heffner. Also, if you sift through a lot of what is being said, Paolo made a list of accomplishments of Heffner cars that really speaks for itself.

I have no experience with the other S/C tuners. Obviously, anybody who is plugged into the Viper "scene" hears all the back channel information. I prefer to stick with the information I have first hand which is primarily related to Jason Heffner.

Some of Jason's prospective customers call me and ask me questions. During this "due-diligence" phase, they forward me some of the emails they receive behind the scenes from certain people who are intent on making sure Jason doesn't get the business. Most of the information is baseless and really shows a lack of character. But what they don't know is that it is such a turn off to the prospective customer, that it achieves exactly the opposite of what they set out to accomplish. In theory, I could post some of these emails, but then I would be stooping to the same level. I prefer to talk about my experience and post facts and figures to support what I say.

 

[BlownGTS]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

...no response

 

[1TONY1]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I have no problem telling people about my experience and my opinion of Jason Heffner.

No Shit ?? When did that start ?





(Don't get excited Gary...just teasing you)
It's actually kind of funny watching the two camps battle. To bad it doesn't happen at the strip or closed course. I would like to see some roll races around the country from a DLM vs Heffner car, looks like some of that may be forthcoming.

 

[1TONY1]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

Matt, The simple fact is you are producing numbers for so many less $$$ that some folks can't take it. Ignore the negative comments.

 

[No Man]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I talked to a guy who, I think, had the exact right idea.

Whenever someone spends this kind of money on an SC kit, they want to feel confident of their decision. It's natural to bash the competition because, in their minds, it makes them feel like they made the right choice.

I have my own opinion on who does more of the bashing, but suffice it to say one group spent more $$ than the other and makes up for it with verbiage, IMO of course.

The worst part is both tuners produce reliable cars that perform very well. I have my own biases and know who I would go with if/when I get one of these kits, but regardless of whichever camp you are in, nobody can deny the accomplishments of the other camp.

:thumb: My sentiments exactly.

__________________
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[BlownGTS]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

Matt, The simple fact is you are producing numbers for so many less $$$ that some folks can't take it. Ignore the negative comments.

Thanks again. :thumb: It is fun trying new things and learning. :burn: Matt /images/graemlins/headbang.gif

 

[E-Slab]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I talked to a guy who, I think, had the exact right idea.

Whenever someone spends this kind of money on an SC kit, they want to feel confident of their decision. It's natural to bash the competition because, in their minds, it makes them feel like they made the right choice.

I have my own opinion on who does more of the bashing, but suffice it to say one group spent more $$ than the other and makes up for it with verbiage, IMO of course.

The worst part is both tuners produce reliable cars that perform very well. I have my own biases and know who I would go with if/when I get one of these kits, but regardless of whichever camp you are in, nobody can deny the accomplishments of the other camp.

AMEN brotha!

 

[1TONY1]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I talked to a guy who, I think, had the exact right idea.

Whenever someone spends this kind of money on an SC kit, they want to feel confident of their decision. It's natural to bash the competition because, in their minds, it makes them feel like they made the right choice.

Mike, Do you feel that is also why some Heffner guys are upset with blownGTS ?
p.s. Any word on the package I sent you ?

 

[SRT Mike]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

Wow, everyone agrees with what I wrote for once /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The funny thing is I couldn't sleep last night so I sucked down about a 1/4 bottle of Jose Cuervo special edition or some crap and between the time I was getting giddy but before I got tired and passed out, I created that little gem.

Maybe I need to develop my alcoholism???

 

[SRT Mike]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I talked to a guy who, I think, had the exact right idea.

Whenever someone spends this kind of money on an SC kit, they want to feel confident of their decision. It's natural to bash the competition because, in their minds, it makes them feel like they made the right choice.

Mike, Do you feel that is also why some Heffner guys are upset with blownGTS ?
p.s. Any word on the package I sent you ?

I think so, yes... there is something to be said for having a tuner take all the risk and paying for that level of service - for some there is a lot of value there. Then, for others, they want to do it themselves. And I notice a LOT of folks are in disbelief about what this guy accomplished on his car and he has gotten a lot of uncalled-for flak over it.

As for me, the only time I would do it myself is if I had the time to tinker... but I wouldn't do it DIY on a Viper, because if I cooked an engine, that's a $10k mistake, and for that money I'd just pay a tuner for the piece of mind. Personally, if I was doing something right now and money was no object, it would be a Hennessey TT... I wouldn't supercharge a Viper - not my thing... but turbos I would do. The Paxton kit - if it can really make 800RWHP once the fuel is sorted out - that is just a massive change in everything we know about Viper tuning, and it probably ruffles more than a few feathers, if you know what I mean - and I'm sure you do /images/graemlins/smile.gif

As for your package, actually I played with it a little but I tried cutting down one of the panels and I f-ed it up! Doh! I am talking to a guy who is interested in buying that whole product line, and he is going to try laser cutting some stuff for me - we will see if that works. The other thing I can try is if I can mount up one of the panels in the mill I can machine off a few thou at a time and try to get it to fit. I'm probably gonna have to goop silicone on the inside to make it sealed (but it would look OK from the outside - just no room to put a frame on it and then put that frame inside your frame). So it will be a 1-off, but I'm sure that would be Ok for ya. I'll stop procrastinating and get to it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Smokin]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I talked to a guy who, I think, had the exact right idea.

Whenever someone spends this kind of money on an SC kit, they want to feel confident of their decision. It's natural to bash the competition because, in their minds, it makes them feel like they made the right choice.

Mike, Do you feel that is also why some Heffner guys are upset with blownGTS ?
p.s. Any word on the package I sent you ?

No one is "upset" with blownGTS. Just because a post is written with some "shit talking" mixed in to call "BS" does not mean anyone is upset. If I see something I GENUINELY consider as "stupid" then I'll spell it out. If you have any idea of my style of posting is that I dont say something with a fakey-do smile trying to look "nice". If I offend someone, too bad, they should be able to deal with it. Making big boost numbers and spinning blowers faster to make more boost and burn more fuel is the name of the game. How you do it, how reliably you do it defines how well a system is engineered. This has NOTHING to do with how much money I HAVE spent, but rather, I HATE the mentality that spending less with the sacrifice of power is a GOOD thing. If we all went by that mentality, the drag racer camp here would all be driving back-halfed, big block, single-turbo mustangs, with strange rear ends and Jericho tranny's....at half the price of a stock viper.

Now to address whats going on at the morgue....I challenge those guys to bring what they are saying here. Half the guys dont know what they are talking about. Gerald is bashing Heffners "Top mount fuel system" by insiunating that his system is better? PUHHHLLEEEZE. Now thats the biggest crock of shit ive ever seen. Even a layman should know better. Last time I checked, Ferrari, Lamborghini, dodge, mercedes-benz, aston martin, Lotus, etc, etc, etc, DO NOT USE additional injectors mounted in front of the TB's for fuel injection. If you got great fuel distribution and great control of your spray pattern that way, why do you think manufacturers moved away from those fuel delivery methods back in the 70's? Why are some manufacturers going from even port fuel injection to Direct Fuel injection? I dont know what BS those guys are being fed, but Jesus, some guys need to take the red pill and get back to reality. Im not going to get into it, but Im calling BS on what these guys THINK is better. Some of it is one camp justifying their purchase, another part of it is some parties turning it into a smear campaign based on being somewhat illiterate on basic mechanical engineering, and engine design priciples. That smear campaign is out of control. I challenge those guys to bring their banter over to the alley...where we can toss out the fakey-do smilies and battle it out.

 

[134]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I talked to a guy who, I think, had the exact right idea.

Whenever someone spends this kind of money on an SC kit, they want to feel confident of their decision. It's natural to bash the competition because, in their minds, it makes them feel like they made the right choice.

Mike, Do you feel that is also why some Heffner guys are upset with blownGTS ?
p.s. Any word on the package I sent you ?

As Mike stated if the numbers come out right. Then proably yes they would have some ruffled feathers so to speak.

I'm happy with my SC kit from ROE and the numbers it produced at a fraction of the cost. :thumb:

Hell, I'm not knocking ayone SC kit.

If you can do it better than the next at a cheaper price the more power to you. :thumb:

 

[BlownGTS]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

As much as I hate to say this, I agree wtih SOME of your points "smokin" :bowdown:. Not all but some. :doh: I am a member of both boards as I am sure almost all are and they are definately two schools of thought. :fight: I just wish you would leave well enough alone and let everyone make ther own decisions w/o bashing them. :givesfuck: I mean it is fine if you do not agree with them but no need to belittle someone b/c they do not do it your way or the way you think it should be done. :bonk: I am basically in the middle of the road. /images/graemlins/headbang.gif I am not cheap nor trying to cut corners. I am just working on my car (my toy) with my buddy (Chuck Norris I think you called him) trying to make it quick and dependable. :burn: This is not rocket science "smokin" :bowdown:. Just ease up some dude. :screwy: I could care less if someone spends 50,000 or 10,000 dollars on their car. That is their choice. I did not challenge anyone that my car will be the fastest or best. I just wanted to let everyone know what I was doing, and give there 2 cents w/o being a complete ass. :dumbass: Anyway, just some scattered thoughts I had. /images/graemlins/freak3.gif Matt /images/graemlins/headbang.gif

 

[Smokin]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I talked to a guy who, I think, had the exact right idea.

Whenever someone spends this kind of money on an SC kit, they want to feel confident of their decision. It's natural to bash the competition because, in their minds, it makes them feel like they made the right choice.

Mike, Do you feel that is also why some Heffner guys are upset with blownGTS ?
p.s. Any word on the package I sent you ?

As Mike stated if the numbers come out right. Then proably yes they would have some ruffled feathers so to speak.

I'm happy with my SC kit from ROE and the numbers it produced at a fraction of the cost. :thumb:

Hell, I'm not knocking ayone SC kit.

If you can do it better than the next at a cheaper price the more power to you. :thumb:

No, youre wrong here. This is where many of us differ. I personally do not believe that "cheaper is better". You do get what you pay for. If ALL you were looking at on a supercharger kit was the final HP number then that may be your mentality, but if you are a die-hard hot-rodder that looks at the whole package, then your mentality may be different. Moreover, if you arent counting your last penny and there isnt much of a difference between spending $10K or $18K then who cares?

What about the cosmetics of the system? Im talking shit a true hot-rodder, enthusiast, or even engineer would notice....quality of welds (how the bead is layed, how even are the welds, etc). What kind of fittings and line are used on the system? (This shit is NOT cheap. My entier fuel, oiling, and cooling system, is pretty much ALL done in TAPPED an fittings, from a -6AN to -10AN lines). if there is a tensioner, how easy is it to adjust? How "Clean" is the overall look of the system? What extras are included? (I didnt just get a blower, I got a new cooling system, modified oiling system, warranty, best tech support, etc). How reliable is the system long term? How streetable is the car? Does it have ANY detonation...EVER? (me, nope). What kind of fasteners does the tuner use? Plain stainless? ARP? Steel? nickel Plated? Is the system polished? Chrome plated? How customized is the system? Do you have to redo some of the customization yourself later? How does the airbox look? is there an airbox? IF it has fuel rails, how are they mounted? sheet metal bent up brackets? Or Billet brackets? How well is the plumbing routed? how well is the fuel system mounted? How is the fuel picked up? What kind of bypass/blow off valve does the system use? Does the car run hot? The list just goes on and on and on.....

Start adding all these parts in, the "extras" and youll quickly find any system priced closer to a Heffner or DLM system. Is that for everyone? Nope. Some people are perfectly happy buying a corvette as well. Some people are perfectly happy having a hot rod, but others will spring for the chrome tubular A-arms and coil over suspension. The budget guy will be happy with the same overall look with leaf springs and "cleaned up" originals.

 

[Tie]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I suppose it's mainly dropping all that money and then seeing someone out perform the numbers you paid so dearly for at around a 1/3 the cost.

 

[Smokin]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

I suppose it's mainly dropping all that money and then seeing someone out perform the numbers you paid so dearly for at around a 1/3 the cost.

1/3? I paid less than $5K more.

 

[Tie]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

That's nice Smokin.

 

[BlownGTS]

Re: what\'s up with the SC guys?

Hey dumbass. :dumbass: How about looking back through all my post. I do not ever remember saying how much my system cost or would end up costing. You idiot. :screwy: I do not know what the final number will be. I really don't care to be honest. Everything that has to be done custom will done first class like it was going to be shown you moroon. /images/graemlins/flip2.gif You spew so much shit that you have no clue about. /images/graemlins/puke.gif I think you do know a lot about cars, but you have no common sense "smokin" :bowdown:. How do you not know everything I am doing is not being done right? Have you seen it? Have you even asked? You just assume, which makes you an ass. :bonk: My kit is polished and all add-ons and fittings are done the right way. You just cannot stand that someone else can do the work (Chuck Norris) is more than capable. :thumb: Anyway, you just like stirring the shit which is fine for your small angry narrow mind. :lame: Matt /images/graemlins/headbang.gif