THIS IS A GOOD DISCUSSION. MANNY, HERE ARE A FEW ANSWERS:
I don't speak mechanic talk, so bare with me if my post doesn't make sense. As you probably know, I just got myself a super charged car. However, if turbos are the future, I will certainly get one on my next Viper which will more than likely be an SRT/10. I obviously like the fact that boost can easily be controlled on a turbo car.
BOOST CONTROL IS A NICE FEATURE FOR SURE.
First, do the turbos being used on vipers share the same oil as the engine? If so, if a turbo blows, does your engine go too (due to bits of metal in the oil) ?
YES, OUR TT SYSTEM USES ENGINE OIL. OUT OF 16 TWIN TURBO VIPERS WE HAVE YET TO LOSE A TURBO. I GUESS ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, BUT I DOUBT THAT A TURBO FAILURE WOULD LEAD TO AN ENGINE FAILURE. THERE ARE MILLIONS OF TURBO CARS AND TRUCKS OUT THERE AND WHEN THEIR TURBOS GO BAD THEIR ENGINES DO NOT FAIL. ALSO, I AM GUESSING THAT CENTRIFUL VIPER SC KITS ARE LUBRICATED BY SHARED ENGINE OIL.
Next, if turbos have such a huge number under the curve, why are the MPH about the same compared to similary powered S/C cars?
I CAN ONLY SPEAK ABOUT THE TURBO CARS I PRODUCE. OUR LAST TRIP TO THE TRACK WAS IN NOVEMBER WITH A TT SRT10 THAT MADE 780 RW HP AND 998 RW TQ THE DAY BEFORE THE DRAGS. THIS CAR RAN 152.2 AND 148.7 MPH THAT DAY ON 14 PSI AND 13 PSI BOOST. I SUGGEST TO YOU THAT OUTSIDE OF DR. ROOF'S CAR (WATER INJECTION WHICH SEEMS TO HELP A LOT) THAT THERE IS IN FACT NO SC VIPER THAT WILL RUN WITHIN 5 - 8 MPH OF OUR TT VIPERS. COMPARE WHAT ALL THE OTHER SC VIPERS WTIHOUT WATER INJECTION RAN FOR MPH AT THE SAME EVENT - NONE BETTER THAN 144 MPH ON BOOST ONLY.
Do the turbos run out of power and torque after 5K rpms and the S/C pull the hardest there in both power and torque?
DEPENDS ON THE TT. THE GRAPH I LISTED WAS ON A STOCK 99 MOTOR. LOOKS LIKE THE POWER CURVE IS DONE BY ABOUT 5700 RPM. BUT BY THAT TIME, THE RACE WOULD MOST LIKELY BE OVER WITH ANYWAY. A WELL TUNED TT CAR WITH A GOOD HEAD/CAM COMBINATION WILL KEEP MAKING CLOSE TO PEAK POWER TO BEYOND 6000 RPM.
Lastly, has anybody really gone out with a turbo car (other than at a 1/4 mile track) and really beat up on their car without wrenching the heck out of the car?
HMMM, I GUESS THERE ARE A LOT MORE SC VIPERS OUT THERE. WE HAVE BEAT PRETTY HARD ON OUR TT'S THOUGH INCLUDING STANDING MILE RUNS, OVER 100 1/4 MILE RUNS AND COUNTLESS HIGHWAY ROLL-ONS. WE DROVE ONE CUSTOMER CAR TO AND FROM THE TRACK ABOUT 300 MILES TOTAL. WHEN WE GOT TO THE TRACK WE PUT SOME SLICKS AND SKINNIES ON THE CAR AND MADE A FEW 9 SEC. PASSES INCLUDING A 9.8 @ 156 (10 PSI BOOST WITH 100 SHOT NOS), THEN PUT THE STREET TIRES ON IT AND DROVE IT 150 MILE BACK TO THE SHOP. ASK THE SC GUYS ABOUT HOW THEY LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING TO TIGHTEN OR REPLACE THEIR BLOWER BELTS FOR MAXIMUM POWER AND PERFORMANCE. NO SMACK OR DISRESPECT, BUT I SUBMIT THAT A WELL BUILT TT IS JUST AS RELIABLE AS ANY WELL BUILT SC IF NOT MORE SO.
I know Gerald has one of the older S/C systems and races and beats on his all the time. I took mine out and broke it in with 7 consecutive races with speeds over 180 MPH, in the desert without any over heating issues, and I beat on it hard (I was racing some of the fastest street bikes around.) I will continue to drive my car very hard, as that is just me. Bottom line, are turbos just as reliable, if not more, than S/C'ers?
CERTAINLY DLM BUILDS A DURABLE PRODUCT. THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER SC VIPERS THAT EITHER RUN HOT OR OVER HEAT FROM OVER SIZED FRONT MOUNTED INTERCOOLERS. SOME SC'S GO TO A SMALLER INTERCOOLER TO RUN COOLER THEN LOSE SOME POWER. OUR TT SYSTEM DOES NOT HAVE TEMPERATURE ISSUES. I HAVE HAD SC VIPER OWNERS RIDE IN OUR TT VIPERS TELL ME THAT OUR TT IS THE COOLEST RUNNING VIPER THEY HAVE EVER RIDEN IN. TODAY'S BALL BEARING TURBOS OFFER LEADING EDGE TECHNOLOGY AND ARE EXTREMELY EFFICIENT, RUN COOL AND HAVE ZERO TURBO LAG.
ULTIMATELY, YOU NEED TO EXPERIENCE A TT VIPER IN ACTION TO UNDERSTAND IT. COME VISIT US IN TEXAS SOMETIME AND I WILL TAKE YOU FOR A 100 MILE TEST DRIVE AND YOU CAN SEE IT ALL FOR YOURSELF. COME IN AUGUST OR SEPTEMBER TOO WHEN ITS 100 DEG.
What advantages do you see to both systems, other than cost?
HMMM, WELL I HAVE BEEN HOOKED ON THE TURBO VIPER PROGRAM FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS NOW. I KNOW THAT THE SC CAN GO VERY QUICK AND FAST LIKE DR. ROOF'S CAR DOES. BUT THERE IS NOTHING OUT THERE THAT OFFERS THE LEVEL OF REFINEMENT OF THE TT. ITS QUIET, SMOOTH AND BRUTALLY POWERFUL WHEN YOU WANT IT TO BE. YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER BOOST AND THUS POWER LEVELS. OUTSIDE OF THE DRAGSTRIP IN THE REAL WORLD OF HIGHWAY ROLL ON RUNS, THE TT IS KING. PERIOD. MANNY IF YOU MAKE A TRIP TO HOUSTON FOR A TEST RIDE, I WILL TRY TO FIND A FEW REALLY FAST BUSA'S FOR SOME FUN. YOU CAN VIDEO THE RESULTS FROM THE PASSENGER SEAT IF YOU WANT.
By the way, my car is relatively close in power to the dyno you posted, so I will post mine, and perhaps you can run through it point by point for all of us. Thanks.
JUST A QUICK SCAN OF THE POWER CURVES SHOWS THAT FROM 3800 TO 5000 RPM THE TT HAS A 110-165 RW HP ADVANTAGE AND A 125-170 RW TQ ADVANTAGE. FROM 5000 - 5400 RPM THE TT STILL HAS A SLIGHT EDGE 50-80 RWHP. AND ABOVE 5600 THE SC WITH HEADS/CAM KEEPS PULLING WHERE THE TT JUST CANT GET ALL ITS AIR THRU THE HEADS SINCE THEY ARE STOCK AND SO IS THE CAM. I WILL POST ANOTHER ONE OF OUR DYNO GRAPHS OF A VENOM 1000TT WHICH HAS HEADS AND CAM AND YOU WILL SEE THAT IT KEEPS MAKING POWER UP TIL 6000 RPM JUST LIKE YOURS DOES.
MANNY, YOU GOT A SWEET CAR NO DOUBT. AND YOU GET ALL THE RESPECT FOR GOING OUT AND USING YOUR CAR FOR WHAT IS WAS MEANT FOR. MY COMMENTS ON OUR TT SYSTEMS ARE SIMPLY MEANT TO OFFER GENERAL INFORMATION TO THOSE OUT THERE WHO HAVE NOT PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED A TT VIPER RIDE. SURE, SEEING A TT VIPER RUN AT THE TRACK CAN BE IMPRESSIVE. RIDING IN ONE OR DRIVING ONE IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING.
TM MADE THE COMMENT THAT THE TT IS NO WHERE NEAR ITS POTENTIAL YET. THIS IS SO VERY TRUE. I WILL PREDICT THAT THIS YEAR THERE WILL BE 1-2 TT VIPERS RUNNING IN THE 8'S AT OVER 160 MPH IN THE 1/4 MILE ON BOOST ONLY.
