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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Spent half the day at the dyno today and everyone was extremely pleased with the results.

Our current progress has surpassed our initial calculations of expected HP, TRQ and Boost. This Stryker SC will shock anyone on the road. Drives and sounds like stock but will suprise the *hit out of the car next to you. :thumb:

The best part is that we are not finished with this system yet. We still need to put larger injectors w/ fuel rails and take out the cats. It is very possible to net 750 Hp at the crank.

The system also needs some finishing touches before it gets delivered. It will look even better when complete. :nod:

Will post more when we are finished /images/graemlins/headbang.gif



She's a little dirty but Scott will make her shine.
[image]http://www.supervipersystems.com/StrykerSCstage1/StrykerSClow.jpg[/image]
[image]http://www.supervipersystems.com/StrykerSCstage1/StrykerSCabove.jpg[/image]
[image]http://www.supervipersystems.com/StrykerSCstage1/StrykerSCstock.jpg[/image]



Tuning


Engine


Dyno Run / 596rwhp - 598rwftlbs @ 6.5psi



[image]http://www.supervipersystems.com/StrykerSCstage1/strykerscdyno.jpg[/image]
 

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What is the projected street price for this set up?
Do you have any PCM programming or do you use a piggy back management system?

If you need a test vehicle I have a creampuff with headers. 3.5 hour drive would be worth it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
A few nice features of a SVS Stryker SC system:

Can be installed on all Vipers, Gen I and Gen II (Gen III system is under development)

The Stryker SC is the only Viper Supercharged System on the market that is purely managed by Stand Alone Engine Management.

Motec manages the engine precisely and with the greatest exactness available. All BoostedV10 engines produced by SVS utilize Motec engine management. Tuning with Motec allows greater precision and more flexability than a piggy back system.

A SVS Stryker SC can be built with either an Air to Water intercooler system or Air to Air intercooler system. With an Air to Air intercooler system the Stryker SC stage 1 will be less expensive than with the Air to Water. Both systems have their advantages.

Everyone at SVS has discussed what RWHP #’s the Stryker SC stage 1 should be packaged at for safety and longevity. We feel safe at 650-675rwhp on a stock engine at 7psi. That is 750+ Hp at the crank on a stock engine. That’s a 300+ hp increase from stock! That’s 75%! We can place it higher by increasing the boost, maybe to 10 or hmmmm 12psi……..but that’s pushing it! Anyone care to achieve a record for the highest rwhp out of a stock engine? SVS and stand alone engine management. If Gerald said that 750rwhp on a few stock V-10 engines has been accomplished, than it must be totally safe while utilizing a piggyback system. We will have great control over all the parameters of the engine by utilizing Motec and our tuning capabilities. I wonder how much psi those systems are running?

A stage 1 system might be slightly higher priced than what is currently available, but that is because you are paying for the best engine management possible for the Viper V-10 in the first stage. The Stryker SC stage 2 and stage 3 systems will also be adjusted.

Managing a boosted V10 engine is complex. I have witnessed many struggles while SVS was researching and developing boosted V10’s. We tried a piggy back system in 1995. We seen how it limited us from controlling the engine parameters the way that we wanted to. Since then we never turned back.

You can buy a cheaper system and continually add more and more things to it until you end up at the same price level that our Stage 1 is at, and then wait until something is figured out that will run it more efficiently. Or you can get what is now available and ready to roll, out the door with the highest of quality.

SVS :flag: :flag: :flag:
 

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Out of curiosity, how much more can you glean from a NA setup using the Motec? The Vec-1 helps take out the 'dip' in the midrange and adds around 10-15 hp at the top on a stock motor. Does stand alone management offer returns much greater than this?
 

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Questions For SVSi

Can be installed on all Vipers, Gen I and Gen II (Gen III system is under development)
What is the difference in the packages between the Generations? Imagine that I buy it for a Gen I and move it to a Gen II then get a Gen III and it just bolts right on each one!! WOW!! That is SLICK!! SVSi has done it again!!! :bowdown: If that is the case; I think it would be more than worth the investment to get. Does the Motec need to be retuned for the different years? You don’t really make it clear in your claim.

The Stryker SC is the only Viper Supercharged System on the market that is purely managed by Stand Alone Engine Management.
Can you tell me what is involved in the installation of a Motec on a car? Do I have to modify my crankshaft? Are there any other things that I might have to do to make it function correctly? :doh:

Motec manages the engine precisely and with the greatest exactness available. All BoostedV10 engines produced by SVS utilize Motec engine management. Tuning with Motec allows greater precision and more flexability than a piggy back system.
I live in CA. As you may know we have VERY strict emissions requirements that have to be met in order to license a vehicle for street use. /images/graemlins/frown.gif With all the precision the Motec has, do you know if it can pass the basic OBD II emission test? I think most of the “piggyback” systems from other tuners are able to. I am just wondering if I will have a problem down the road if I decide to sell my car with the blower still on it. I believe it is a felony to knowingly disable an emission control device :ugh: (correct me if I am wrong). So if I sell my car for street use am I going to be running the risk? How hard would it be to return it to stock? :doh:

A SVS Stryker SC can be built with either an Air to Water intercooler system or Air to Air intercooler system. With an Air to Air intercooler system the Stryker SC stage 1 will be less expensive than with the Air to Water. Both systems have their advantages.
I am assuming that you have built a few air to air intercooler SC cars. How big of a difference have you noticed in the output going between air/air and air/water? What is the price difference between the two options going to be? :doh:


Everyone at SVS has discussed what RWHP #’s the Stryker SC stage 1 should be packaged at for safety and longevity. We feel safe at 650-675rwhp on a stock engine at 7psi. That is 750+ Hp at the crank on a stock engine. That’s a 300+ hp increase from stock! That’s 75%!
When can we expect to actually see the numbers from SVSi in that area? How long do you think before the fuel system is up spec.? :doh:

Side note: It appears that you still are using the stock injectors up to this point with no additional injection. If that is the case: the stock injectors are at around 85% duty cycle (about the most you will want to run an injector!). At the stock fuel pressure the car is making around 450 at the crank. You add on to that 6 pounds of boost and you are showing around 590+ at the rear… so we will say over 630+ at the crank. If you do the math and keep the max duty cycle the same you find that the fuel pressure to be well over 140+pounds per square inch (absolute) WOW!! :zzz: With that much strain on the o-rings a failure is very likely to occur! (Can you say toaster!!) /images/graemlins/gasthrower.gif Let alone the fact that you are attempting to operate the injector at almost 3 times the designed pressure!! :screwy: You also say you underestimated the potential of the car. What were you expecting to get out of the car with 6 pounds? :ugh: Did you think the stock injectors would be able to handle that from the beginning? Was this just poor planning? Or were you really intending to run the car with that much fuel pressure? If this was poor planning, what else might have been overlooked? :doh:

A stage 1 system might be slightly higher priced than what is currently available, but that is because you are paying for the best engine management possible for the Viper V-10 in the first stage. The Stryker SC stage 2 and stage 3 systems will also be adjusted.
Do you have a “ballpark” idea on price that you can throw out?

Managing a boosted V10 engine is complex. I have witnessed many struggles while SVS was researching and developing boosted V10’s. We tried a piggy back system in 1995. We seen how it limited us from controlling the engine parameters the way that we wanted to. Since then we never turned back.
Technology has come a LONG way in 9 years. I think you would be surprised if you stopped and looked around at the things available today. R&D didn’t just stop 9 years ago when you decided to go to a Motec. Granted a Motec was the the way to go if you want all the “bells and whistles” and did not have to worry about being street legal. There is a lot more out there today that can compete while still keeping you “legal”.


Or you can get what is now available and ready to roll, out the door with the highest of quality.
Do you have a package already available in kit form? Can I order it from you on Monday? How hard will it be to install the system myself? Will I be able to handle it with common tools? Will I have to send some things off to a machine shop?

Or do I have to send my car off and if so what is your; price, turnaround time, warranty, etcetera?

I look forward to reading your response… Thank you in advance for addressing my concerns and answering all of my questions.
/images/graemlins/lurk.gif [image]http://www.viperalley.com/pano/panels/-11239.png[/image]
 

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NA motec

Dodge got the map fairly close on the Viper. You will notice a big gain if you have significantly changed the engine (cam, heads, intake, blower, turbo, ect.) the only drawback is that you must know how to tune a car from scratch. where as with a piggyback system: you are just adjusting what you already have in the stock computer. If you are not really planning on changing anything in the future and just want something to play with yet don’t really want to learn the physics and chemistry behind how an engine actually functions then stay with a piggyback. if you build a motor and have someone that can tune it for you then a Motec might be an option for you. If you have any further questions about Motec or Vipers in general feel free to contact me here...


(I am not affiliated with, nor support/recommend SVSi)
 

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Re: NA motec

(I am not affiliated with, nor support/recommend SVSi)
Hey Boosted, werent you thrown off the DotOrg site for posting your bullshit? Why not just come clean and tell everyone who you really are and why you are posting this stuff here?
 

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Re: NA motec

BoostedV10 was banned? Gee, that must make him a bad person :rolleyes: From his post, he does SEEM to have a pretty good technical base on the limits of the Viper fuel system. Im not sure what he is trying to accomplish, but there were some good questions in there IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Disgruntled Boosted V10

Side note: It appears that you still are using the stock injectors up to this point with no additional injection. If that is the case: the stock injectors are at around 85% duty cycle (about the most you will want to run an injector!). At the stock fuel pressure the car is making around 450 at the crank. You add on to that 6 pounds of boost and you are showing around 590+ at the rear… so we will say over 630+ at the crank. If you do the math and keep the max duty cycle the same you find that the fuel pressure to be well over 140+pounds per square inch (absolute) WOW!! :zzz: With that much strain on the o-rings a failure is very likely to occur! (Can you say toaster!!) /images/graemlins/gasthrower.gif Let alone the fact that you are attempting to operate the injector at almost 3 times the designed pressure!! :screwy: You also say you underestimated the potential of the car. What were you expecting to get out of the car with 6 pounds? :ugh: Did you think the stock injectors would be able to handle that from the beginning? Was this just poor planning? Or were you really intending to run the car with that much fuel pressure? If this was poor planning, what else might have been overlooked? :doh:
For what it's worth to whomever reads this thread.

"SEEMS TO" is exactly the words that fit Smokin :nod:

"Sounding like you know something" and "actually being able to apply yourself with your knowledge" are 2 very seperate states of mind. In the case stated above the information sounds technically good, but all you see is that you think your engine is going to melt. That is the only purpose of a post like this. Saying something that everyone will think sounds technically correct, but they don't know how it really technically works. So all people are left with is a bad taste.

The stock injectors were used without any other injectors. Thats exactly right. We even sent the stock injectors out and had them flow tested before we did this application. What do you think they tested at before they leaked?

And you know the best part?

At 596rwhp with those same stock injectors we were at 85% duty cycle. Exactly what is safe, and exactly what is safe for stock. The fuel pressure was no where near what is stated above and completely safe. Goes to show you that:

A: Someone doesn't know what they are talking about or,
B: Someone is trying to find out what we know that works, at our expense

Our customer could leave with his Stryker SC and be totally safe at this point.

Do you really think we are going to put the car in a state of having 140 lbs of fuel pressure and melt down our customers Viper? Give me a Fukn break. :pissed:

It seems like that is what Boosted V10 is trying to make people think. :screwy: Sounds like a deliberate attack from someone that is seriously obsessive and vendictive. HMMMMMMMM I wonder what his/her motives could be?

:lame:
 

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WOW!!! that kinda hurt

SVS Turbo said:
Side note: It appears that you still are using the stock injectors up to this point with no additional injection. If that is the case: the stock injectors are at around 85% duty cycle (about the most you will want to run an injector!). At the stock fuel pressure the car is making around 450 at the crank. You add on to that 6 pounds of boost and you are showing around 590+ at the rear… so we will say over 630+ at the crank. If you do the math and keep the max duty cycle the same you find that the fuel pressure to be well over 140+pounds per square inch (absolute) WOW!! :zzz: With that much strain on the o-rings a failure is very likely to occur! (Can you say toaster!!) /images/graemlins/gasthrower.gif Let alone the fact that you are attempting to operate the injector at almost 3 times the designed pressure!! :screwy: You also say you underestimated the potential of the car. What were you expecting to get out of the car with 6 pounds? :ugh: Did you think the stock injectors would be able to handle that from the beginning? Was this just poor planning? Or were you really intending to run the car with that much fuel pressure? If this was poor planning, what else might have been overlooked? :doh:
For what it's worth to whomever reads this thread.

"SEEMS TO" is exactly the words that fit Smokin :nod:

"Sounding like you know something" and "actually being able to apply yourself with your knowledge" are 2 very seperate states of mind. In the case stated above the information sounds technically good, but all you see is that you think your engine is going to melt. That is the only purpose of a post like this. Saying something that everyone will think sounds technically correct, but they don't know how it really technically works. So all people are left with is a bad taste.

The stock injectors were used without any other injectors. Thats exactly right. We even sent the stock injectors out and had them flow tested before we did this application. What do you think they tested at before they leaked?

And you know the best part?

At 596rwhp with those same stock injectors we were at 85% duty cycle. Exactly what is safe, and exactly what is safe for stock. The fuel pressure was no where near what is stated above and completely safe. Goes to show you that:

A: Someone doesn't know what they are talking about or,
B: Someone is trying to find out what we know that works, at our expense

Our customer could leave with his Stryker SC and be totally safe at this point.

Do you really think we are going to put the car in a state of having 140 lbs of fuel pressure and melt down our customers Viper? Give me a Fukn break. :pissed:

It seems like that is what Boosted V10 is trying to make people think. :screwy: Sounds like a deliberate attack from someone that is seriously obsessive and vendictive. HMMMMMMMM I wonder what his/her motives could be?

:lame:

WOW... sounds like some one is trying to start a cat fight :givesfuck:... funny how you only respond to one question in the post. Yet you fail to notice the details of the post...



Can you tell me the difference between absolute vs. gage pressure and why you would want to use one over the other for making calculations? I would like to hear YOUR answer!



If you RE-DO the math using the Correct unit of measure you will find that you have to be right around 140!! :doh:



I guess it is like you said… "A. someone doesn’t know what they are talking about" /images/graemlins/greddy.gif



And, yes I do think you would put that kind of pressure into a fuel system... Can I ask you how much fuel pressure you ran on your first turbo car? (The one that burnt) :zzz:



I also was not worried about a “pintle” leak (I believe that is what you were referring to ) because they are harmless in relation to an O-ring failure which would allow fuel to spray out of the intake and on to the engine. /images/graemlins/gasthrower.gif



I am not here to start a "pissing contest" of wits... My only motive is information and truth... I asked simple honest questions about very straight forward things and I only got a response to one and only then because you THOUGHT you found a flaw in my calculation :bonk:



Can you tell me why you, once again, ignored the other questions?
/images/graemlins/lurk.gif Still waiting.....



P.S. I was not banned from the “.org” site. I was just asked to not question SVSi and they were also asked to do the same. But I thought that these were serious questions and stumbled across the post here. So I asked them because they posted the EXACT same thing on this site…
 

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Re: WOW!!! that kinda hurt

Are you now or have you ever been affiliated with, done busines with or been an employee of SVS?

They may indeed be valid questions, but I have reasons to suspect your motivations.
 

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Re: WOW!!! that kinda hurt

Personally, I dont care what his motivations are. This is an open discussion forum where anyone with a legitimate discussion has a right to participate. We wont hide anything or censor our members. This guy MAY have an agenda, but thats life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: knowledge is power??????????????????

Knowledge is power and with that power you can do anything?????


More like.....

Power is applied knowledge, and without being able to apply knowledge you can do nothing.

except think you are knowledgeable. :help:
 

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Re: Questions For SVSi

Boosted V10 said:
I live in CA. As you may know we have VERY strict emissions requirements that have to be met in order to license a vehicle for street use. /images/graemlins/frown.gif With all the precision the Motec has, do you know if it can pass the basic OBD II emission test? I think most of the “piggyback” systems from other tuners are able to. I am just wondering if I will have a problem down the road if I decide to sell my car with the blower still on it. I believe it is a felony to knowingly disable an emission control device :ugh: (correct me if I am wrong). So if I sell my car for street use am I going to be running the risk? How hard would it be to return it to stock? :doh:
Other than trying to flame this tuner for reasons i don't understand, If you are so concerned about emissions why are you even pursuing this thread? to my knowledge the only CARB certified blower system is Paxton. A felony to disable emission control devices huh? thats a new one on me. I'd like to see the source. I'm not disputing that yet.. just very strange! As i don't see the court dockets filled up with orange clad, jumpsuit-wearing felons waiting for their hearings to see if they unplugged their PCV valve.

I think if you are trying to get answers you'll have a lot better luck if you don't write a 5 page article.. Just try addressing your concerns 1 at a time.
 

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here ya go...

I think anyone who is in the Viper community will, at one point or another, run into most of the people involved with the community. This is just the nature of a community this small. So, when you basically ask if, I have ever dealt with SVSi, I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone who hasn’t. The same goes for all the major tuners in the market. I have met John Hennessy, Doug Levin, Jason Heffner, and Ron Misjak. They all have there strengths and weaknesses. I think some come across as masters of marketing while others come across as masters of fast cars.

I came to this forum because of the fact that it is uncensored. I am not “out to get SVSi” or anyone for that mater. The agenda I do have is to gather as much knowledge and information as possible. I am not out to steal anyone’s secrets or attack anyone. When you stop asking questions you stop learning. When you stop learning you stop growing… I guess you could say I am an information junkie.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: here ya go...

Can you tell me why you, once again, ignored the other questions?
/images/graemlins/lurk.gif Still waiting.....
Because I answered ALL your questions last time you pulled this type of vendictive crap on .org. And then I asked you ONE simple question: "where did you work that you got all your knowledge of Vipers and Motec"? and you couldn't answer my one little question. /images/graemlins/freak3.gif

Let's see if you can answer packetjunkies questions directly and not the ring around the rosie answer like above. :nod:

It is obvious that you are trying to get credibility in yourself by badrapping SVS. Stand on your own 2 feet BIGBOY. /images/graemlins/greddy.gif

Lives in CA. <HA>

:flag: :flag: :flag:
 

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Yes it is!!

Shhhhh!!!!! Everyone listen!! (clickty-clack….clickty-clack) hear that?? Sounds like some one tap-dancing around the questions still… oh well… :rolleyes:

SVS Turbo said:
Power is applied knowledge, and without being able to apply knowledge you can do nothing.

You cannot apply what you do not have. :doh:


The only reason that I ever approached SVSi vs. anyone else is simply because of the fact that they seemed to have the Motec and the Viper in general very well sorted out. Yet if you look at the recent achievements, they appear to have taken a huge step backward and I was wondering what happened?


Case in point;
If you go back to the “Maxton Mile”, they did around 197 in the standing mile. With no second gear!! And the surface of the strip looked like the moon!! WOW!! That is impressive!! :thumb:
They go to Nebraska just a month or so ago and are only able to beat the record by 3 mph?? Two years have gone by to sort out and improve the car. Given the fact that they appeared to have all 6 gears and they were running on a surface that was equal to glass when compared to Maxton. You would think they would have been able to smash the record!!

Then you look at the most recent supercharged car and they “underestimate” the potential of it?? I have (honestly) never known SVSi to make this kind of mistake. Not that long ago it appeared they were on top of the world when it came to Vipers... That is the only reason I question them. I was just wondering what was going on at with them??? :arcade:

Don’t get me wrong I think they will get it back together and you should not judge this company on anything I say... keep in mind; all of this is just one persons opinion.



Now then;


(clickty-clack….clickty-clack)


back to those questions…. /images/graemlins/lurk.gif
 

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Re: Yes it is!!

Personally, I dont care what his motivations are. This is an open discussion forum where anyone with a legitimate discussion has a right to participate. We wont hide anything or censor our members. This guy MAY have an agenda, but thats life.
Does that post have any value here? I asked a legitimate question and was looking for an answer. Got a problem with it? Read your own post.

It was a pretty straight forward question - I didnt ask if you hung out a bar with them, I simply asked if you had any business dealings with them or had been an employee.
 

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Re: here ya go...

SVS Turbo said:
I asked you ONE simple question: "where did you work that you got all your knowledge of Vipers and Motec"? and you couldn't answer my one little question.
I got all of my knowledge hands on. I learned it myself by getting my hands dirty. I also have done a lot of researching the theory behind it and talking to people who know it. I worked for what i know and what I have... I did not rely on anyone to give it to me or tell me how to make something work.


SVS Turbo said:
It is obvious that you are trying to get credibility in yourself by badrapping SVS.

Something I have learned in life is that; in a pissing contest no one wins. Like I stated earlier… I am not out to start a pissing contest!!

I have nothing to prove or anything to gain yet you seem very threatened by my existence. Are you afraid that someone else might know how to operate a Motec? Or know how to work on a Viper?
I would ask you why you are so threatened, but you would ignore that question as well. So it is not worth it
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Yes it is!!

So said packetjunkie:
It was a pretty straight forward question - I didnt ask if you hung out a bar with them, I simply asked if you had any business dealings with them or had been an employee.
Boosted V10 why can't you answer it. :sleeping:


So said BoostedV10
I have nothing to prove or anything to gain yet you seem very threatened by my existence. Are you afraid that someone else might know how to operate a Motec? Or know how to work on a Viper?
I would ask you why you are so threatened, but you would ignore that question as well. So it is not worth it
I'm not threatned by your existence whatsoever.

What does bother me is the fact that you have to post these questions on my thread? On every thread that I post something you seem to be there creating misconstrued statements and lies about what we are doing and where we are at with our systems? That would seem to bother anyone that is in business. :nod:

Go out into the big world of forum boards and stand on your own 2 feet and create your own existence. :thumb:

In other words get off my back little green man :nuts:
 
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