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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok...let's talk about it. If you guys start slinging bullshit. I'll ask for this to get deleted. I want the facts of the system. I want updates on development and I want NO BULLSHIT.
 

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BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT

Now you promised, pull the thread!!!!!!!!!! :thread: :slap:
 

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/images/graemlins/laughing.gif

well - I guess you expected that right?

I went on record in the other thread and will on this one as well

despite all the theory that everyone harps on about - this system can work and work surprisingly well.

what it will not do is beat a front mounted system that is just as well designed....

unless you have a Porsche :rofl:

Now if it is much cheaper than a front mounted system - then it might even make sense to do it.

If it costs as much or more than an underhood system - they have a lot to prove before they will convince many buyers

My take on the TNT effort is to wait and see - let them show us what they've got...

if they got 1200hp out of a rear mounted system I'd laugh my asss off because it will certainly be possible....

Now you experts go knock yourselves out - when you make 6hp per cubic inche lets start talking about the perfect design

/images/graemlins/laughing.gif :thumb:
 

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Right or wrong Torquemeister, all we need with these big m'fing motors is a measily 3 to put a serious ass whooping on the Supras. I'll give them lots of credit though, that is a bunch of power per liter.

I know there are many other cars doing it but the Supra is the most prevalent.

And Tanked, don't forget to pull this thread. /images/graemlins/jerry
 

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Tq, I won't laugh, i'll say "it's about time!!!" I think 1200 rwhp is VERY VERY reasonable, even with the rear mounted design. I know when Justin Nenni tuned the RSI TT car he said to me "if I had free reign on this car, i'd make 1500 rwhp and 1500+ rwtq with these turbo's". I think it's VERY possible to make upwards of 1500 rwhp with the viper motor, i mean shit, afterall, it's 488 freakin ci's. The vipers have been so far behind in turbo technology b/c up until just recently, you have had to use a piggyback to control fuel and timing. Now with the AEM out, it's easy to make a 1200+ rwhp viper run/drive like a stock car (with the right tuner of course).
Peter
 

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From Hassan glad to see their is no shit talking. We will try our best to keep u guys posted on info. Houston T the point u made is very good. Viper computer tech. is far behind but at least their making shit now. With the aem it should be interesting to see how these vipers react. We are continuously trying new things and hate the fact other people have to talk shit so lets keep this one civil. If anyone has question let us know. The rear turbo stuffs is going well as soon as we get some of the info you guy asked for we will post it. I hate to talk shit you probably cant tell. because racing is suppose to be enjoyable. I would like to see what this car can do against other turbo vipers, supras, vettes anybody who's willing. And I'm not talking shit just interested on how it performs. I don't know where anyone hangs out anymore but i would like to have it like old times, when this shit was fun. I say we put something together if everyone is willing and is civil it could be fun.
thanks Hassan
 

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A lot of the limitations of the Viper's volumetric efficiency has to do with its engine design. First of all, a couple of guys have conjectured as to why a supra can make so much more power per CI. Well, first of all, take a look at the head design. You ahve double OVERHEAD cams moving four valves per cylinder. Vipers are initially handicapped with an archaic two per cylinder. The supra has ain inline six, arguably the most well balanced engine design. The V10 on the other hand is far from being "well balanced". Id say 1500+ hp is POSSIBLE, but youre pushing the limits of gasoline there.
 

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Smokin, I firmly believe that 1500 rwhp + is VERY possible on the viper. I agree that the viper engine design is not as "efficient" as the I6 in the Supra, however, i can't see why 4 rwhp/c.i. is not attainable. I look forward to seeing 1600,1700,xxxx rwhp vipers coming outta the woodworks soon...
Hassan, we should start getting together again like the good ol' days. You all need to make sure you come to my Supra Meet in March and run the car! I do miss the "fun" of it all.
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
1.) Because the engine in the viper is so large. I don't spool time will be much of a issue...even with the turbo in the ass of the car. I think the "lag" that would be felt with such a system would be due to the long distance if the IC was in front of the car. What about putting some type of IC in the rear of the car too. I have no idea where it would go.

2.) Ground Clearance. If a stock viper is lowered 1" would the turbo system be rubing on the ground?

3.) BOV where would you put it? In this "odd" system wouldn't you want to put it as close to the turbo as you can? Because that way you don't loose all the pressure between the BOV to FMIC(assume) to TB's??? Or would this cause a (air bubble...or lack of air as it maybe) in the turbo system and cause a temp super rich situation??

4.) Because the air has so far to go and air would be moving arould the pipe going to the FMIC, what about using a "finned" pipe going to the intake and using the pipe it's self as a "intercooler". This would help cool the air before it even gets to the intercooler. IF it worked good enough...you wouldn't even want a intercooler....just a radom thought.


Ok that was just somethoughts I had. What do you all think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
5.) What would the cost be of a system like this? I don't think that was answered before.


BAD VPR:.... /images/graemlins/loser
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
houstonT I agree. Finnaly a the vipers get the EMS system. I've seen it do wonders on may cars...including DSM's. It's impresive to see a 2.0 4cyl make 400whp on pump gas. Tuning is 80% of how good a engine will run. I've seen that time and time again. System setup is only about 10% and 10% is how good the parts are. I remember working on a dsm and could figure out why the whole system wasn't working. Turned a bearing in the NEW turbo was DOA.
 

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houstonT said:
I know when Justin Nenni tuned the RSI TT car he said to me "if I had free reign on this car, i'd make 1500 rwhp and 1500+ rwtq with these turbo's". I think it's VERY possible to make upwards of 1500 rwhp with the viper motor, i Now with the AEM out, it's easy to make a 1200+ rwhp viper run/drive like a stock car (with the right tuner of course).
Peter
Sitting beside Justin in the car, running the car on the dyno, driving the car on the street while watching Justin work, he is 100% correct. I know why we stopped there and we could very easily go further. It will happen, someone will make a huge number on the dyno with a similar set up to the RSI TT. This car could easily do it if the owner wanted it done. I have to agree with Justin.It is only a matter of time.

DW
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ok that's what I thought. Remember, power is nothing without control. How the hell do you get all that power to hookup on a street tire anyway? Not that I wouldn't mind having 1100 to 2000hp on a "street car".
 

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Tanked said:
houstonT I agree. Finnaly a the vipers get the EMS system. I've seen it do wonders on may cars...including DSM's. It's impresive to see a 2.0 4cyl make 400whp on pump gas. Tuning is 80% of how good a engine will run. I've seen that time and time again. System setup is only about 10% and 10% is how good the parts are. I remember working on a dsm and could figure out why the whole system wasn't working. Turned a bearing in the NEW turbo was DOA.

All the cars youre talking about have a completely different engine design. The DSM cars making over 400 AWHP or FWHP also use a Double Overhead Cam setup. I used to own one making over 600 HP. When you get into combustion chamber design the location of the spark, quench area, flame speed, etc all come into play in maximizing the volumetric efficiency of an engine. Moreover you have more control over the relationship between exhaust and intake valve timing with the DOHC engines. Using the pushrod two valve cyclinder heads we have now, 1500hp may be possibble, but come on, we're pushing the limits of gasoline.
 

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Tanked said:
1.) Because the engine in the viper is so large. I don't spool time will be much of a issue...even with the turbo in the ass of the car. I think the "lag" that would be felt with such a system would be due to the long distance if the IC was in front of the car. What about putting some type of IC in the rear of the car too. I have no idea where it would go.

2.) Ground Clearance. If a stock viper is lowered 1" would the turbo system be rubing on the ground?

3.) BOV where would you put it? In this "odd" system wouldn't you want to put it as close to the turbo as you can? Because that way you don't loose all the pressure between the BOV to FMIC(assume) to TB's??? Or would this cause a (air bubble...or lack of air as it maybe) in the turbo system and cause a temp super rich situation??

4.) Because the air has so far to go and air would be moving arould the pipe going to the FMIC, what about using a "finned" pipe going to the intake and using the pipe it's self as a "intercooler". This would help cool the air before it even gets to the intercooler. IF it worked good enough...you wouldn't even want a intercooler....just a radom thought.


Ok that was just somethoughts I had. What do you all think.
My turbos are mounted just below the flexpipe off the headers. The oil return fitting is 1" lower than the frame rails. I am now making al finned sid plates to shield and disapate heat. I would be curious to see how they get the rear mounted turbo tucked up to retain gound clearance. The innercooler also has me curious. It is a major fallicy to think you can compensate for pressure drop by turning up the boost as that will only generate more heat. It would be to thier benefit price wise and function wise to drop the innercooler and use the tubing to cool the charge (maybe with heat fins- or some other creative way) By eliminating the innercooler you also keep the airflow to your condensor and raditor. They could make this a really cost efficent package if they approach it this way. $1300 for a 80 trim turbo, $600 for the oil pump and lines, $1500 piping fab, $500 gages and misc. With out a fuel system upgrade you can safetly add 150 more RWHp. So for less than $3500 your at 550 RWHp, cheaper than a Roe system. (minus tuning and piggy back)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I agree smokin. The DOHC is a better head. BUT...we got what we got. And what we got is a engine that can stroked and poked to 543(?)cid. So we got lots of displacement to work with. Instead of better heads...we have more block.


So would anyone like to answer my Q's I posted eariler.
 
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