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Camel Farmer
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I purchased my 2000 GTS Viper with 10,000 miles on it a month ago from Woodhouse, and have been very happy with the car and their service. I checked the oil when I first got it and it was newly changed and full to the line. I put 1,000 miles on it since it is my daily beater and it was a quart down. Is this normal to use a quart in 1,000 miles? I do romp on it a bit here as I drive and the first week I went 150 MPH+ on New Jersey streets-lol, so I guess this can be normal... Any suggestions or opinions in your own street driven almost stock (no mufflers, shifter, smooth tubes and K&N's)snakes? TY
 

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My 2000 RT has just over 20,000 miles on it...and it doesn't use one drop of oil...ever.


And for some insight as to how I drive...I just replaced my clutch and disc...they were toast...
 

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Chris had this problem with his 00 GTS his engine had to go back to the factory for a rebuild. He posts here and I'm sure he will chime in.
 

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My '01 with 16,000 miles on it has never used a drop of oil and that includes quite a bit of spirited driving, drags, etc. A quart in 1000 miles sounds like way too much to me. Might want to do a compression check and check the plugs to see if you have a cylinder on the way out or something. If you have a good Viper tech close by have them check it out for you.
 

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Call Woodhouse and ask them if your car might be one of the "oil burners". I think it was the first 200 or 500 '00 GTS's had something about the cylinder sleeves that caused oil burning. Those guys would definitely know if you were affected, and are probably your best bet in getting "favorable warranty coverage status".
 

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You can run a compression test on each cylinder and/or a leakdown test.
When you pull the plugs - look down the plug hole and check the top of the
cylinders - If one has more burnt oil on top - it might help your diagnosis.
In some cases 1qt per 1000mi - wouldn't be extreme if you were driving it
hard because there is some blowby oil from the valve cover that gets sucked
into the intake via the crankcase venting system. You could remedy(or check)
on that by splicing in a 'puke' can - you can pick one up from JEGs or Summit
for around $30.
 

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All piston engines use some oil, sometimes it doesn't show up on the dip stick because the oil is being diluted with contaminates as fast as it is being consumed. Water is the main diluter and it take a good 30 minute drive to get it boiled out of the oil, sometimes it will build up because the engine isn't used long enough then when you do finally go on a road trip it all gets boiled off and appears that the car just used a lot a oil. If your car is burning oil you ought to be able to see it in the exhaust at start-up or when you accelerate.
 

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My guess (and it is only that) is that this is one of the early "oil burners". When the "creampuffs" (cast pistons instead of forged) were first produced in late 1999 for the 2000 model year, DC also tried something else: Powdered metal cylinder sleeves. Compressed at something like 600,000 pounds per square inch, the sleeves were supposed to be so hard that they would last 1,000,000 miles. They were also supposed to allow for tighter ring tolerances which had some EPA benefits. Unfortunately, the sleeves were SO hard that the rings wouldn't properly seat in some cars and thus you had oil blow-by. Mobil 1 Synthetic apparently doesn't burn big blue/white clouds like regular oil would do - so you never see it. That is a blessing for you as it doesn't look like you are driving a rusty 73 AMC Pacer and also a curse, as you don't realize you are burning that much oil. In my 2000 GTS I was going through a quart every 350 miles. The oil was basically changing itself!

Bottom line: Check your MDH on your driver's door and watch to see if your car shows a month build of roughly 09-12 (September - December of 1999). This problem affected ONLY 2000 model year Vipers (no '99's or 01's) and only the first 200 or so cars produced. They changed back to iron sleeves in January or possibly a little earlier. If your MDH shows it was produced in February or later, chances are excellent that you do not have an affected car. If your car appears it could be one of these, contact your servicing dealer immediately. In my case, I actually brought the car back to Woodhouse and they took care of everything. Realize that there is NO WAY for the selling dealer to know about this problem beforehand unless they drive it extensively. Needless to say, Woodhouse is not the type of dealer to go driving Vipers all over the place before they sell them. Your servicing dealer may also want to "verify" this problem for themselves.

Should you have one of these and are under warranty, you will probably be offered a complete rebuild by Arrow Racing in Detroit. They offer the only authorized factory service for the Viper motor while under warranty. Your dealer will make the arrangements with DC, who in turn will make the arrangements with Arrow. Count on 6-8 weeks of downtime. If your dealer is willing, you may be able to schedule the work over the winter months, which, depending on where you live, means you don't have to worry about winter storage for 6-8 weeks. Oh, and Arrow rebuilds don't affect the resale much if at all: As the company that built the very first Viper motors, Arrow has a reputation for returning the motor with slightly better performance and making them darn near bullet proof. Some folks actually consider it a bonus, as the motor is rebuilt by hand and extensively tested before being shipped. I was very happy with mine!

Good luck.

Chris
 

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Landscaping Professional
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Mike's right. Some of the early 2000's ran an experimental liner coating that didn't let the rings seat. Check the door jamb sticker and look for the MDH (month, day, hour) of manufacture. I think most of the affected cars were built before November or thereabouts.
 

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There could be another reason, but it depends on your driving. Under hard braking or cornering oil can get pushed into your airbox through the crank case ventilation.

I have had this happen on many occassions until I made a fix for it. You can remove the hose and see if it is oily inside if it is your are driving it hard enough to make it happen.

Another sign is if you get the spy hunter effect under acceleration after spirited driving.
 

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Camel Farmer
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You guys have been great Sorry I did not respond sooner, I was on a small business trip for the past few days and did not log on. I REALLY appreciate this good feedback! My date of manufacture is 5-00. What I intend on doing is keeping a very close eye on it and if it continues I will bring it to my local dealer for service. I live in Southern New Jersey, but have yet to find a dealer here. I called a local place and was not comfoprtable with them over the phone-too bad Woodhouse is not closer! Anyone know of a good place here in Southern NJ near Philadelphia? I bought that gold plan extended warranty from Woodhouse, so I think I am covered should it need rebuilt. I can see it now, slipping a guy an extra $1,000 for a bigger cam, some head work, et cetera...

I drive the car hard but I don't kill it (okay I drobve 150 MPH twice in the past two days on the Interstate for 1 minute each time), even took it on a trip this weekend. This is truly my daily driver/images/graemlins/gr_driving3.gif, although I take care of the car and wash (and worship-lol) it regurally. Who knows, maybe I was just off when I looked at the dipstick, and it is amazing nobody suggest looking for a leak, but I plan to start looking somewhere fast if it drops anymore. I'm not new to cars, just a new Viper geek. Have my own engine hoist, engine stand, ring compresser and all that neat stuff, so I understand where you folks are coming from and again I REALLY appreciate the excellent feedback!

The Viper community on here is really great and I am glad there is a place to post and see messages. I like the babes section too :hitit: Gary
 

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Yep, with a manufacture date of 5/00 you can pretty much rule out the cylinder sleeves as an issue. Your next best bet is to do what rwhp suggested and check your airbox and/or your crankcase ventilation hose for oil.

Good luck and keep us posted!
 

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For those that have upgraded rockers, you can close off the holes in
the sheet metal baffle inserts in the valve covers. Just unscrew the baffles,
make a cardboard template and cut out sheet metal to reproduce(without holes)
then add to block the oil from entering the top(vented) section.
With the OM rockers some oil is necessary to lubricate and cool the pivot balls
of the rockers - so you don't want to make this mod to a factory rocker set-up.
For the stock rocker set-up - there is a modification, but I won't go into it
here - check with Dan Cragin or some of the others that have done it.
 

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Camel Farmer
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Nothing in my tubes coming into the air box. I pulled the little hoses from the end of the valve cover and saw some oil, but they meet at a T-fitting and go to the box, but nothing there. It is 1 quart to 800 miles now, drove it 1600 miles and it used 2 quarts. Taking it to the dealer for them to look at, that is why I paid the $2300 or whatever it was for the gold warranty. I know I hammer it sometimes, but 800 miles to a quart seems excessive. I looked for leaks up top and saw nothing, but down below I did not even look since my GTS is LOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. I will post what the dealer says after I make an appointment this week. Thanks again for all the help and great advice!
 

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I've been noticing this same oil comsumption problem on my 2000 GTS so I took a look at the sticker on the driver's door and found that the date of manufacture is listed in the upper right hand corner as 10/99. In this case, I assume that my car has the sleeve problem discussed above. Since I'm a long way from Woodhouse (but I do have the extended warranty) what should I do? Take the car to the local Viper tech here in Vegas?

BTW: it's got almost 15k miles on it.
 

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MoparMan said:
I've been noticing this same oil comsumption problem on my 2000 GTS so I took a look at the sticker on the driver's door and found that the date of manufacture is listed in the upper right hand corner as 10/99. In this case, I assume that my car has the sleeve problem discussed above. Since I'm a long way from Woodhouse (but I do have the extended warranty) what should I do? Take the car to the local Viper tech here in Vegas?
Definitely take it to your local Viper tech and one that you trust. Tell him what the car is doing and also about the potential sleeve problem. If he isn't familiar with it, have him contact either his Zone rep or Arrow directly. I am confident they can pull up the VIN and verify which sleeves it has and then go from there. Bad news is that it will most likely require a rebuild, good news is that you will be very happy with the results when it is done.

Interesting that the two affected cars in this thread were black/silver GTS's - mine was too!

Chris
 

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I had the recall done on my '00 RT, I was burning a quart of oil every 150 miles, they crated the motor and sent it to Arrow, it came back GREAT real strong. They will not do the recall unless your burning alot of oil and before they do it they monitor your car, you have to come in 2-3 times and they check your milage & oil level. Chapman Dodge has a good Viper tech I used him in an emergency when my power steering went out in the middle of the OTC. the '02 GTS was brought in all race prepped with racing stickers, rollbar, fire suppression system and everything and the Tech still covered it under warranty.



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I've heard that Chapman Dodge has the best Viper tech here in Las Vegas, I just wasn't sure if that meant much or not. The local dealer I bought the Viper from (who I know through our local Mopar club) has a couple employees from Chapman Dodge and they personally know the Viper tech there. I guess I'll see if they can hook something up for me.

Just for clarification, though:
a) since my car was built in 10/99 it sounds like it has the sleeves in question, right?

b) how long will my car be at sitting in pieces at the dealership if it needs the rebuild?

c) we've got a club event up in St George this Saturday (about 130 miles away) - since the car has gone almost 15k miles I assume it should be fine to go 250 (I'll bring extra Mobil 1), right?

d) Do they rebuild the engine in the car and put it back in or do they replace the engine?

Thanks for the info, everyone!
 

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a) Your does have the sleeves in question
b) It will take usually 6-8 weeks for the dealer to pull the motor, crate it up and send it to Arrow in Michigan. Have the tow your car back to your garage you DO NOT want to leave it there for that long a time, have THEM pay for the towing (they did for me)
c) You'll be OK bring an extra quart, my motor had 10,000 miles on it when I sent it out.
d)They maticulously rebuild the motor, they replace EVERYTHING, timing chain, cam, all the pumps and anything else they find (they replaced 3 valves of mine) they do all the dyno and leakdown tests and the motor is like new when you get it back.



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Thanks for the answers.

Damn! I just got this car in May (sold my '68 Charger and '69 Charger R/T SE to get it) - it's going to be very painful to be without it for two months. I guess it's a good thing I bought the extended coverage.

I had been thinking I would have to get the car towed back home but I figured I'd have to pay. This may be a dumb question, but do you know if the towing co will get it back in the garage or just drop it off on my sloped driveway for me to push up the hill? When I was restoring my '69 Charger I had it flat-bedded a couple of times sans motor and ended up having to push it into the garage but at least then I lived in a house with a level driveway.
 
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