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These are some pictures of an experiment in progress. What we did was cut the intake plenums in half so we could port and reshape the entire intake runners and openings. I feel that this will work significantly better than simply extrude honing the manifoild. When the intake gets welded back together it will be milled and refinished and you will not be able to tell it was ever touched. I'll post some dyno results as soon as it's back together.
 

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Ok, lemme re-word some of this...

Bring me up to speed on the value of the ported intake manifold. I mean, what type of flow numbers can be achieved when compared to cost? Has an alternative been researched?

I only say this because it seems like throwing porting time/money at the stock manifold isn't always the best sollution, but of course I could be wrong.

MM
 

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These are some pictures of an experiment in progress. What we did was cut the intake plenums in half so we could port and reshape the entire intake runners and openings. I feel that this will work significantly better than simply extrude honing the manifoild. When the intake gets welded back together it will be milled and refinished and you will not be able to tell it was ever touched. I'll post some dyno results as soon as it's back together. <BR><BR><IMG src="http://www.viperalley.com/uploads/1298-MVC-006F.JPG" border=0><hr /></blockquote>


Jason, can you please explain what parts each picture is representing. I dont exactly get it. Paolo
 

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I may come off harsh, but it was ment with no disrespect either. I encourage people to experiment with these motors.. thake the voodoo and mysticism out of them.

MM
 

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I just bought an extra intake- with that in mind. When I first gazed on the
intake, I was looking for a clean place to saw it into - of course, later,
I realized I wasn't alone.
The pictures help, and if you feel generous later, I could use the runner volumes and dimensions that you settle on. Are you just going with it from experience or is there some logged research data on file.
 

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MadMaxx said:
Ok, lemme re-word some of this...

Bring me up to speed on the value of the ported intake manifold. I mean, what type of flow numbers can be achieved when compared to cost? Has an alternative been researched?

I only say this because it seems like throwing porting time/money at the stock manifold isn't always the best sollution, but of course I could be wrong.

MM

<hr /></blockquote>

Im not sure how much Jason Heffner charges for this modification. But I know from the pricing I have received that his pricing is EXTREMELY reasonable for the level of work and craftsmanship he puts into his products. I dont know of another mod people do to intake manifolds other than individual TB's which usualy involves the use of a stand alone engine management system..and that not cheap.
 

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Not just the TB's as an option. The 10 butterflies show that the motor NEEDS air, and that stock can't feed the beast. I'm glad people are tying to open the airways up though... but doesn't it seem like trying to port a TPI system? good for maybe 15hp at best? I never said anything about his prices to do the work, thats up to him and the customer who will pay. I just wanted to see what the actual gains were for the cost.

Stand-alone computers will soon be a reality.. not talking any of the high end 8 grand a pop systems either...

MM
 

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My understanding is at VOI7 it was confirmed that the new SRT 10 intake manifold is a direct replacement to the Gen II intake manifold.

I would think this will be a VERY popular ungrade - similar to the Z06 manifold upgrade in the Corvettes.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Max, we haven't flow tested the manifold as of right now or cc'ed the runners for volume. It just seems to me that there isn't much gain from extrude honing and there are several reasons why. Extrude honing doesn't reshape runner openings or runner shape. It also doesn't really make the runners very much larger. All it really does is smooth out the inside of the manifold which as you can see is only worth 8 - 10 hp. The race manifold with 10 tb's is not very effective both cost wise and power wise. All of the aftermarket manifolds have been short runner configurations and lose lots of torque. I know a guy who bought a sheetmetal intake for his Viper, it lost 70 pounds of torque. For that matter, I can't even say that this experiment will work for sure, but I would bet that it will. I'll have some dyno comparisons soon.
 

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Keep everyone in the loop when you get that sucker back together and get some numbers!

70lbs TQ might not be so bad if your doing a blower application, as the added volume would prob make up for it. I saw a sheetmetal manifold w/o any type of velocity stacks, basicly from the plenum strait down into the holes. The stacks do wonders, something like 30% better air flow over std "strait down" types (baaaad).

TB's is a mess I admit, but I really was focusing on their port design and velocity stack features that would made for a really interesting intake manifold.

MM
 

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I should receive my intake by next week(picked it up in VCA classified).
And I applaud Heffner for sharing his info and pics. It would be easy
for someone doing the research to keep it to themselves(and this has been the case in the past). It has been stated before that the open plenums or short
runners kill low end torque, so the stock intake may be the best platform, and
access to the critical areas that need radius work is essential for
making gains. Even though it looks like a radical move to cut the intake in sections, it really isn't- I'm sure it crossed some ones mind in the beginning
to make the center, runner section, removable.
 

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Short runners do reduce low end torque.. but with 500lbs on tap at near idle.. how much is "too much" to lose?

The benifits for a forced induction platform would be awesome...

MM
 

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Guys, not to bust anyones bubble. This has been done several times before by several shops. For the time you spend cutting this thing, porting, and polishing and the amount of HP you gain is minimal to say the least. Joe at TNT did one and tried several things to get more air flow but the gains were not worth the trouble. A group in Jersey did the same thing and felt they did gain some but nothing near what they were expecting for the amount of time they had in it. I just thought I would offer this for what it's worth but hell, Jason may have another idea that he can improve on and show these others guys that they were mistaking.

Mark
9secRT
 

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It's been posted that others have done this, and I had assumed
the gains weren't overwhelming - or it would be a standard performance
procedure. No one said Heffner was a pioneer in this area.
The reason I'm interested is I bought an intake for various reasons
and while I have extra time and the part, I want to take advantage of it.
The reason that Heffners post is interesting, is that he presented it at
the time I needed the info. Also, I think that it has been recognized that
there could be more gains realized in this area.

The point is - it's something that is overlooked for various reasons.
Look how many owners have parted with big money for extrude honing, which
takes more effort and money - but produces less results.
I would compare this thread with a post on a new look at head porting.
SURE IT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE - BUT NOT ON THIS BOARD. ASSHOLE
 

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There ARE gains to be made by porting a stock manifold. However, final data will deturmine if it's worth the time and effort ($ as well) for the increase over stock flow.

MM
 

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It's always been said that the Viper motors had the most untapped
potential from unrestricting the intake. And, yes- there have been
efforts to take advantage of intake mods, - But nothing in comparison to the
money, and research, that has went into exhaust mods- that net less power.
If we avoided something because - 'someone already tried that' - we
would be short changing ourselves. The potential is there for someone
willing to make an effort and this intake mod is worth another look at.

Another interesting aspect to this is - with more and more S/C conversions being done, the supply of used intakes on the market, will overtake the
demand. That makes this and other intake mods worth another look, especially
for the DIY'ers.
 

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I'm a DIY, and i'm working on an intake manifold for my turbo project. Kinda sucks though, I spent all that time making my stock manifold blue to match the car /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The need for external rails and injectors, coupled with the air needed has pushed me away from heavily mod'n the stock plenum and going w/ a new piece all together.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out /images/graemlins/smile.gif

MM
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Once again let me reiterate. As I said in my initial post, this is an experiment that I am working on. I never said that I was the first one to do this, as a matter of fact I know I'm not the first to do it. Lingenfelter does this on all of his N/A cars. I also never said that everyone had to buy it. I just thought some of you would like to see some pictures while the project was still under development. One thing is for sure, it will yield higher hp gains than any cat back exhaust system at roughly the same price. Another thing I would like to say is that just because someone else was not happy with the way their intake turned out does not necessarily mean that it could not work for me. When I first started making supercharger systems for the Vipers everyone I talked to said that it couldn't be done safely on a Viper engine. They told me that McClure did several cars and they all blew up. If I had stopped development at that point, there would be quite a few less 750 - 800=rwhp Vipers out there today.
 
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