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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do the radar scrambler / jammers actually work?

I know for a 'friend' who just got done for 69 mph in a 50 mph (lucky wasn't driving Viper as with a long empty highway it's 130 + there). We now have these mobile laser units. It's a cop in a car that parks up hidden with a laser speed detection unit / camera, you just get a ticket 2 weeks later in the mail, with fine and license points. If you try and fight such a ticket in the UK courts you will likely end up with more points and fine + costs. They don't want you to do the court thing so I think they punish you hard if you do, the mobile cameras are all about easy money from motorists. It's nothing to do with road safety as, they are not situated at accident black-spots, and nor do they try and help or educate you to slow down. The fixed roadside speed cameras are getting burned and chopped down, people don't want them. But these latest mobile lasers are nasty. My reactions are sharp, but that laser is all set up on a spot on the road, you drive right into it like a sitting duck, if you've a V1 it goes off, but too late lasers instant on. It's faster than the human eye! If caught again in the next 2 years then the license will be taken / banned. I drive real careful in housing areas, past junctions, traffic etc...and could be within the speed limit...but, like just sneeze in a SC Viper and that's it no longer with in!! They are going to cause crashes; I'm getting so paranoid I'm going to be watching my speedo more that the road ahead!
 

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Sort of. Mostly no. Read these three articles:

http://www.radartest.com/COUNTERMEASURES.html

(Although I have to disagree with what the site says about whether detectors can pick up laser. They're ignoring the fact that LIDAR is *heavily* diffracted by the atmosphere, and a detector can pick up this scattering rather easily. As long as they're not aiming at you and you're relatively close, you can pick up the diffraction easily enough.)
 

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You mentioned both radar and laser in your post. Both can be jammed, but at what cost?

For radar, the solutions I've seen just aren't that effective for a number of reasons. One of the preferred methods to jam radar is to transmit a signal that is stronger than the incoming radar signal from the cops. It's highly illegal (at least in the US and probably in the UK too) to transmit a signal without an FCC license (Federal Communications Commission). Fines can be in the $10K range plus potential jail time. This is probably the preferred method of blocking radar (i.e., overpowering the incoming signal with a signal that confuses the police radar) but because it is illegal no viable company is going to risk the kind of money necessary to develop a product that will certainly be challenged in court. I've seen some homemade devices but most are not all that effective.

There are things that can be done to the car (similar to the stealth technology used on military aircraft) but this is not practical for a car. This would entail changing the shape of the car, getting rid of all reflective material, etc. and it still would not be impervious to radar detection.

Laser is a different story. At least for the time being the light spectrum is not regulated, therefore there's more that can be done. The best product I've seen tested (never used it myself) is the Blinder Laser jammer (Website) made by a Danish company that originally developed the technology for the Danish military. From all I've read it seems very effective against laser detection.

The laws of physics work in our favor with radar (i.e., you have more time to react when you detect a radar signal) and also radar signals "bounce" off of other objects giving you a little warning before you become the target. Laser on the other hand has to be aimed directly at your car and the light beam is very small so when your laser detector goes off, you are definitely the target, but by then it's usually too late to slow down before being detected. A laser jammer fixes that problem.

So, it seems that the most viable method (although still not perfect) to avoid getting a ticket is to use the combination of a radar detector and a laser jammer.
 

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Great post Gary!!

I've often thought how cool it would be to have military hardware to beat these police intrusions - but it would have to be on a very special car that was not used a lot to minimize the chances of getting caught with it.

Naughty GTS - NZ has gone the same way - for the last few years the government has stepped up the anti-speed campaign to the point that other motorists will consider you a criminal if you pass them at speed... and will likely call the cops.

I used to speed all the time - now I rarely do... you honestly spend as much time checking your speedo as watching the road sometimes - and that sucks. It has killed the sheer pleasure of driving. As if we turn into a pumpkin at 60mph!

morons. But it does make the race track more popular!
 

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Just read the link.

For example, the Blinder system Gary mentions is easily defeated by simply aiming somewhere other than the license plate:

The Blinder M-10 Twin jammed all three of our laser guns-but only when they were aimed at the front license plate. Shifting the aim to a headlight or the air conditioning condenser, visible through the cooling slot in the lower bumper, produced instant target speeds every time.

They even give better detail along the same lines as Gary's "laws of physics" comment. For instance:

The problem is the laser's tightly concentrated beam, barely more than three feet in diameter at 1,000 feet. In comparison an X-band radar's microwave beam can be 250 feet wide at the same distance.
 

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ATEAV8 said:
Gary, have you used a Blinder? Does it mount in a viper easily? Will it set off a V1?

Thanks
Andy
No, I haven't, but it always seemed like something I would like to try. I did see one mounted on a Viper and it looked pretty easy to mount it. The rear unit bolts to the license plate bolts. I don't see how it would set off the V1, but again I'm not speaking from experience.

Since laser requires line of sight, I depend on my own eyes to spot them first. It's worked every time, but unfortunately, I've had two "hits" on my laser detector recently at night when you can't see them. This requires the cop to stare into my headlights in order to aim the laser gun.

The issue that McGuire pointed out about aiming the laser away from the license plate to fool the Blinder is an interesting one. I would hope the system is more foolproof than that, but I can't argue with their test.
 

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I have the Cin. Micro. "Laser Shifter." It seems to work, but I have never blown through a speed trap at 30 over the limit either. It does seem to detect Lidar better than even my V-1.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks, that's just what I was after. That Blinder looks the business for me. If I go ahead and get one I'll be sure to report back how it is.

The radar devices I can usually see, but laser has better vision over me, by the time I can see it, it's already just seen me!
 

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GaryA said:
at night when you can't see them. This requires the cop to stare into my headlights in order to aim the laser gun.
A guy I've been friends with for 15 years was a cop for a couple years. He had LIDAR training, they use it down there in St. John's county. We talked about it about a year ago when jammers came up on a local racing board, and I said the same thing about LIDAR at night. The sights on the laser have some kind of LCD dimming thing (like the auto-dimming rear-view mirrors). That, combined with a high angle (e.g. shooting cars on the highway from an overpass) makes headlight glare mostly irrelevant.

It is a common misconception that headlights will "confuse" a LIDAR gun. The LIDAR operates on a very narrow frequency -- 904nm I believe. The only interference typically comes from xenon lights, which emit part of their spectrum in a range around 924nm. Regular halogen headlights and other types of lights are very far away from LIDAR, frequency-wise, and are simply ignored just like every other source of light coming into the sensor.

Joe says they basically prefer shooting headlights because on most cars these days they're quite large, and of course, highly reflective. Also, apparently the sighting system they give you makes it pretty easy to target even motorcycle headlights (contrary to claims in the article I posted).

If anything, you're probably better off hoping to jam regular old radar -- except that most of the units available are total scams that don't work. During that same period when I talked to my cop buddy, I asked a coworker who is a former NASA communications engineer (and hence knows quite a bit about antenna design) what he thought about regular radar jammers. His opinion was that anything that could be affordably priced would probably burn itself out in a single use, would use too much power to be easily set up in a car, and would probably have to emit such a strong signal it would permanently damage the radar gun.

Finally, consider that except for people and places trying to SELL you one, there are NO positive tests or other sources of information about jammers......
 

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McGuireV10 said:
Just read the link.

For example, the Blinder system Gary mentions is easily defeated by simply aiming somewhere other than the license plate:

The Blinder M-10 Twin jammed all three of our laser guns-but only when they were aimed at the front license plate. Shifting the aim to a headlight or the air conditioning condenser, visible through the cooling slot in the lower bumper, produced instant target speeds every time.

They even give better detail along the same lines as Gary's "laws of physics" comment. For instance:

The problem is the laser's tightly concentrated beam, barely more than three feet in diameter at 1,000 feet. In comparison an X-band radar's microwave beam can be 250 feet wide at the same distance.
Note that the blinder has come out with additional models (M20/30/40 - the last 2 involve rear jammers too), which may impact its performance.

Separate from the blinder, the Lidatek Laser Echo laser jammer sounds pretty good - quote from the site: "The Laser Echo with its powerful GaAs laser was the only unit able to defeat all three lasers regardless of where they were aimed." I think I might look into the Laser Echo a bit further...
 

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I've heard about he Echo....don't know anyone who has one though....I've been popped by the laser just a few months ago...detector didnt even go off.
 

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slaughterj said:
McGuireV10 said:
Just read the link.

For example, the Blinder system Gary mentions is easily defeated by simply aiming somewhere other than the license plate:

The Blinder M-10 Twin jammed all three of our laser guns-but only when they were aimed at the front license plate. Shifting the aim to a headlight or the air conditioning condenser, visible through the cooling slot in the lower bumper, produced instant target speeds every time.

They even give better detail along the same lines as Gary's "laws of physics" comment. For instance:

The problem is the laser's tightly concentrated beam, barely more than three feet in diameter at 1,000 feet. In comparison an X-band radar's microwave beam can be 250 feet wide at the same distance.
Note that the blinder has come out with additional models (M20/30/40 - the last 2 involve rear jammers too), which may impact its performance.

Separate from the blinder, the Lidatek Laser Echo laser jammer sounds pretty good - quote from the site: "The Laser Echo with its powerful GaAs laser was the only unit able to defeat all three lasers regardless of where they were aimed." I think I might look into the Laser Echo a bit further...


The "Echo" certainly sounds interesting. Slaughter, please post a follow-up on the Echo if you end up buying one. :cheers:
 

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Can I just dump a load of cut tinfoil out the window as soon as my Valentine goes off in an attempt to confuse the radar?
 

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Ah, the "chaff jammer" approach.

Speeding ticket: $105
Littering fine: $500

(Is it just me, or does "chaff jammer" sound like a SoCal Production?)
 

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Hey Nad, Phil got stopped for doing 110mph at 4am in a hired sebring somewhere near Orlando (on the last day of his holiday), $285 fine which he paid before he flew back, gave the usual euro story but the cop was Scottish........ reckons the fine could have been upto $400
 

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THOR said:
slaughterj said:
McGuireV10 said:
Just read the link.

For example, the Blinder system Gary mentions is easily defeated by simply aiming somewhere other than the license plate:

The Blinder M-10 Twin jammed all three of our laser guns-but only when they were aimed at the front license plate. Shifting the aim to a headlight or the air conditioning condenser, visible through the cooling slot in the lower bumper, produced instant target speeds every time.

They even give better detail along the same lines as Gary's "laws of physics" comment. For instance:

The problem is the laser's tightly concentrated beam, barely more than three feet in diameter at 1,000 feet. In comparison an X-band radar's microwave beam can be 250 feet wide at the same distance.
Note that the blinder has come out with additional models (M20/30/40 - the last 2 involve rear jammers too), which may impact its performance.

Separate from the blinder, the Lidatek Laser Echo laser jammer sounds pretty good - quote from the site: "The Laser Echo with its powerful GaAs laser was the only unit able to defeat all three lasers regardless of where they were aimed." I think I might look into the Laser Echo a bit further...


The "Echo" certainly sounds interesting. Slaughter, please post a follow-up on the Echo if you end up buying one. :cheers:
Will do, and I'd hope others would report back as well. Problem is, my laser detector has gone off so rarely, and generally only in places that there was no way there was a cop shooting at me, that I don't know if I want to invest in it...but hey, if it saves that one ticket...hmmm... Also can't find a deal on it, it's $350 everywhere...
 
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