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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think maybe this situtation could have been avoided if maybe there had been better communication - but what happened is unfortunuate.

Background: I announced months ago that Holinger had graciously announced they would be willing to let us borrow a Viper racing transmission so Viper racers could see one in action at the V10 Nats. They are not cheap boxes - but they are the best road-race transmission in existence and have been found very effective in drag racing in Japan and "down-under" so we convinced them to explore the American market.

This was arranged by a friend and SRT10 owner that was getting a twin turbo done at Heffners Performance.

The owner did NOT want a race box, he wanted the new super duty synchro box - but that will not be ready until early 2005 - so he OFFERED to let his car DEMONSTRATE their race box - just so Viper owners could see it in action etc. The intention was for me to be there and promote it and answer peoples questions etc.

Of course the first thing that happened was that I was out of the game - so then I asked Jason to look after Holinger and he graciously agreed to help promote Holinger and he has the car running with it and will no doubt post about it when he can test it properly - because HE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE IT AT THE V10 NATS.

Nobody was going to buy one without seeing one - especially as they are not made in the USA but in Australia so you have the "made in the USA" barrrier to overcome for a start.... only someone who really is serious about going fast and can affod to buy the best will even look at one.

Holinger then got an order for 1500 race boxes from PORSCHE to outfit their entire world racing program in several classes. This put them under huge production stress.

BUT because they had promised a box - and were coming to PRI in Indy anyway - they put themselves out to make a CUSTOM VIPER DRAG SPECIAL 6 speed sequential... it is basically the same as their regular road race box but I calculated the ratios to suit the faster Vipers for the 1/4 mile and they made it to suit.

The Skyline version of the box has run 7 seconds - it is quicker than an auto when used right. You can shift up or down at will just like any road race box, and it has an electronic engine cut out that allows you to powershift even without the clutch. It is not a clutchless trans - it is fully manual, but can be shifted without the clutch once underway at anytime at any speed.... it's a dog box made to the highest standards in the industry and makes a Jerico look like a dinosaur.

The box runs 1:1 in 5th gear which gives the quicker cars more options. As the shift points are so quick, the extra gear shift is compensated for more by the extra torque multiplication down the track and keeping the motor in the sweet spot the whole track.

It is a RACE box not a street box. It CAN be driven on the street - however it will be noisy and has no synchro so will clunk at slow speeds.... but offers the ultimate in race box technology currently available, while being able to swap back to the T-56 at anytime for street use.

SO Holinger spent a LOT OF MONEY so that SERIOUS racers at the V10 Nationals could see one in real life (it is the only one in the world)

but the V10 Officials could not even let it run as a demonstrator, as a promotion, or even in a BRACKET where any advantage would be lost. It could have easily run in the 9.9 bracket - how would that have hurt?

Holinger air freighted it to be on time - and some official simply says "you can't run that here"....

this is EXACTLY what IHRA, NHRA are like - totally inflexible - and EXACTLY everything the V10 Nationals was supposed to NOT be...

this is a small community - surely there is room for some accomodation outside official race results in special cases. Like there was when a Hemi Viper first turned up. It doesn't have to count - just be allowed to run.

The SRT10 had NO chance of winning UNlimited - it is a totally refined street car making around 900rwhp - it was never a contender - it did not even need to figure in OFFICIAL results - but it could have been allowed to make demonstration passes.

A company made an investment in this event in faith it was an informal body that would love to see something new....

Guys - is this what you want?

If not - what can be done so that other people are not burned like this in the future?

Had Jason not had Chads car there he'd have come all that way for nothing, Holinger certainly air freighted the box for nothing...

Jason will test the box later and report results.
 

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Torquemonster said:
A company made an investment in this event in faith it was an informal body that would love to see something new....
Was their a Contract with the V-10 Nationals? If not, the company made an investment in YOU. You are besmirching the V10 Nationals and Roof personally for something that you put your ass on the line for. You are an awfully whinny salesman.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
not a salesman - I have nothing to sell

A TUNER brings a Viper with a WORLD EXCLUSIVE but can't even make an exhibition run, he is told the car can't race.... yes that is their right, no it was not what was expected as it would not have hurt anything.

I've said my piece, if everyone thinks "who cares" - then Holinger made a bad call trying to support this community with a much stronger box and without the need to go auto... sorry I thought people might like that.
 

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Torquemonster said:
not a salesman - I have nothing to sell

A TUNER brings a Viper with a WORLD EXCLUSIVE but can't even make an exhibition run, he is told the car can't race.... yes that is their right, no it was not what was expected as it would not have hurt anything.

I've said my piece, if everyone thinks "who cares" - then Holinger made a bad call trying to support this community with a much stronger box and without the need to go auto... sorry I thought people might like that.
I think it's stupid that the car couldn't run exhibition, but proper planning in advance may have prevented this little FUBAR.
 

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Very nice alternative for a transmission, but not a "WORLD EXCLUSIVE".

A friend has been running a Holinger in his Viper for years. There is even a link to Holinger on the .org site. the link has been there for years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
John Myrick said:
Very nice alternative for a transmission, but not a "WORLD EXCLUSIVE".

A friend has been running a Holinger in his Viper for years. There is even a link to Holinger on the .org site. the link has been there for years.
You are right John - the exclusive was on the fact this was a DRAG box - and it is the only one - your buddy does not have this, it has all the latest tech in it plus special ratios. It'd still be great for road racing - but it is the only box they ever made for a Viper with drag racing in mind. The ratios were ones I worked out then slightly modifed to fit with what they could actually make.

Clint - agreed - but I've been out so I guess it fell thru the cracks.... it's why I'm not blaming Dr Roof for all this - just trying to bring attention to it so it does not happen again.... I'm sure Dr Roof would have been more than happy if he'd known in advance. It's never a good thing to put people on the spot - the point is not blame here - just a request that people be more accomodating of tuners who are not trying to "win" but just show up and showcase something.
 

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For the record, we were informed in advance that we would not be allowed to run this aftermarket clutchless transmission in the bracket classes. We were informed that if we wanted to run a non T-56 clutchless transmission and that we would have to run in the class with the automatic transmission cars. We knew this in advance. The only problem was that there were no other cars in attendance to form an automatic class. I am appreciative of the efforts put in by David Bogs whom without, there would have been no race to attend. I as well as everyone, do not agree with every rule or aspect of the V10 Nationals but am grateful to have somewhere to race with other Viper owners. Thanks to Dr. Roof for all of your putting on a great show.
 

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TQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQmister
I find it hard to believe that David said no. JHP with his auto trans ran at the V10, Dr Fudge auto ran at the v-10, SVS ran at the V-10 so you are saying that David picked on you, to funny. Exhibition runs have always been allowed but David said no to you, are you for real.
I think that this is just another one of your failures that you are trying to clean up and David is your way out.
 

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jkracer said:
TQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQmister
I find it hard to believe that David said no. JHP with his auto trans ran at the V10, Dr Fudge auto ran at the v-10, SVS ran at the V-10 so you are saying that David picked on you, to funny. Exhibition runs have always been allowed but David said no to you, are you for real.
I think that this is just another one of your failures that you are trying to clean up and David is your way out.
Rohn, just to clarify:

Jason Heffner said:
We were informed that if we wanted to run a non T-56 clutchless transmission and that we would have to run in the class with the automatic transmission cars. We knew this in advance. The only problem was that there were no other cars in attendance to form an automatic class.
TM is not the middle man here, even though he seems to be making himself one - there is no middle man, just Heffner, the car, and the series rules.
 

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I think it's CRAZY if this car were not allowed to make some "fun runs" or "test" passes, that simply makes NO sense. If that's the case, then that simply SUCKS! I just don't see David saying "no, absolutely no fun, test passes".
Peter
 

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Heffner Performance said:
I have to say that if had pushed the issue that David would have likely allowed some time runs. I just figured that since there was no class for me that I would sit this one out.


First of all, sincerest congratulations on the times in your car. Outstanding. When the time comes for me to pull the trigger on a performance package from a tuner, as it stands now, the works of Heffner put the largest blip on the radar as I would imagine it does for many people.

You might want to consider a new mouthpiece though. The class with which you appear to handle yourself and the way you tell the story stands in stark contrast to your proselytizing E-poodle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thats correct, and Jason has accepted responsibility for not doing more to help prevent this situation - which is fair comment. To be fair however, the Holinger situation is one he inherited not one he instigated. It became a casualty of my moving on, but an unnecessary one.

Which is why I replied above to Clint - that this is NOT a Dr Roof bash. I should have made that clearer... I've sent him a pm to clarify this

the point is simply - let there be room for tuners to showcase something special - whatever the pass gets called....
 

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COuld Chads car runs 7's if he had an automatic in it? How much does an automatic increase times vs a true clutch and 6 six speed? a full second? 1/2 a second?

*EDIT* oops wrong thread. Sorry guys. :(
Gerald
 

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Torquemonster said:
Thats correct, and Jason has accepted responsibility for not doing more to help prevent this situation - which is fair comment. To be fair however, the Holinger situation is one he inherited not one he instigated. It became a casualty of my moving on, but an unnecessary one.

Which is why I replied above to Clint - that this is NOT a Dr Roof bash. I should have made that clearer... I've sent him a pm to clarify this

the point is simply - let there be room for tuners to showcase something special - whatever the pass gets called....
Here's an idea.....why dont you tie some logs together, float your ass over back to New Zealand and shut the fuck up?
 

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Hey Torque Monster, how are ya buddy? Shut the fuck up! You ARE a whiny tit! That said, why couldn't it just run in the 6 speed class? A Quaife may give you better traction, but there's no special class for those.
 
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