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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am posting this here to bring something to light from another thread that really has nothing to do with that thread; There has been somebody who has been belittling me this other thread about:

a. whether or not I hit 200 MPH in the standing mile (with 3.5 more PSI and 60 degrees cooler ambient temperature) compared to the documented 191.8 MPH I hit in Nebraska almost 9 PSI in 90 degrees ambient temperature.

b. whether or not it even counts on a public road because there is no "Documentation" even though I achieved the same thing with a passenger in the car a few weeks preceeding the video.

He brings up some valid points here and there, but I really think the ultimate goal of this individual is to undermine my accomplishments in realtion to his own achieved with somebody elses money and car instead of his own. He does not even own a Viper.


He does not seem to understand that a regular guy does not necessarily have access to do some of the cool things his high dollar backing has afforded him to do.

Here are some quotes:



"Unsanctioned performance competition style events like private testing down a highway mean nothing.

If a guy goes to a 1/4 mile event, standing mile event etc. etc and doesn't get the results he hoped for and then proceeds to go out and perform his own personal tests and then claims he achieved levels that he couldn't at a sanctioned event........Uh........something is missing here, like maybe the proven results.

Getting results and going back and PROVING verified claims at a sanctioned event is the only way to disperse previous losses. I'm not saying that it can't be accomplished, but when it actually is accomplished that is the time for proven promoting.

I just don't want to see ya set yourself up like you did with all the talk about what you were going to do to everybody with your SC set-up and then NONE of it came to reality. Just trying to help out a Viper brother!

As far as our ...... and reading a book and acting like you have already accomplished it?


Internet: I can be anybody that can accomplish anything.

Real world: Need to back it up and prove it!"




==>I think there is some bitter resentment in this person and some not too cool insinuations that are way off base.




Here is a person who was a passenger in my car who SAW the speedo as we hit 200 in the standing mile:

FACT- a couple of nights prior to the SA event last December Paolo and I went out in his car and marked off a 1 mile stretch. We then proceeded to cover that mile in 24 seconds and speed was a touch over 200 mph. I know we hit 200 then the mile marker. The car was hauling ass and those are the facts. It was cold and the car surprisingly hooked well enought to achieve those numbers. Was it at an event.....no. However, there is a big difference between 191 and 200+++ in a 1 mile stretch and that night the car hit 200+ easily. I might still have the shit stains to prove it j/k.



What good is owning these toys if one can't act like a brat in front of everyone else.


Here is a quote of this individual trying to minimize the accomplishment:

"Were you using GPS? or the speedo?
So you measured 5280ft? How did you mark it off? Did you use the odometer?
And your eyes were the determining factor for the finish line?
I know what is going on at 200 mph and there's not alot of time to determine exactness by relying on your eyeballs
If it was at night even worse.

Many times I have stood on the side of roadcourses and taken lap times with a stopwatch. When the drivers came in sometimes I was up to .5 to 1 sec off their laser beam triggered laptimers. That was with maximum speeds of only 160 mph.

1 second is tremendous on a roadcourse, could be the difference between 1st and 10th in some series.

I didn't put my original post on this thread because I'm trying to stop somebodies fun. I did it because there's a huge difference between fun and staking a claim. Especially when you put others in a lower position than you while acting like you staked a claim. Also because timing and scoring equipment to measure speed, time, etc. etc. is expensive and it gives more realistic results than your eyeballs determining outcomes.

I remember being in Nebraska and John from WCV saying that they measured off a mile the night before and using GPS they achieved 206 or 209... something like that. The next day was a different story.

Thinking that I'm Jealous of whatever somebody is trying to accomplish or build in this situation is absurd.

If I was, I would be the one acting like everybody else is beneath me because of the achievements I have attained? And that if anyone else has done better I'm going to go after them with a vengence! I can't even think like that. "You just all shut up and come back and talk to me when youv'e done what I've done" Sounds like FN kindergarden.

I don't know......maybe I acted like that when I ate fudgy bars and PBJ for lunch.
"

==>Here is the subliminal response them answering their own questions and trying to look like they're NOT being what they ARE.

"If I was, I would be the one acting like everybody else is beneath me because of the achievements I have attained?"

==>Yes, I think you are!


Here is the guy who hit the 200 MPH with me explaining some logical things:


GPS was our best option, as well as video. I don't know if you personally have much knowledge with forced induction, but there are a few BASIC principles that apply to these cars as well as all cars in general. If one compares the 2 runs (NE vs Chicago), there are some major differences. Differences that can change results dramatically. 1- the ambient air was nearly 60 degrees cooler resulting in a much lower intake charge. 2- the elevation was lower when combined with the temp and bp results in much more favorable hp conditions. 3- the car was making significantly more boost. With just these 3 variables in place it is easy to see how the 8+ mph was achieved. No conspiracy, just Common Sense. Once you understand how rapidly conditions change and how they can and do affect a cars performance, the numbers will make sense to you. Whether we were running PC's car or my bucket or we could have even had Oprah's sled out that night, all 3 would have performed much better in those conditions compared to NE. Hope that helps.

==>Here is this individual's response:

"I remember coming back from the Xxxx Xxxxx and putting up a post about achieving xxxmph. Then.....John Hennessey came on the post and challenged the claim I was making. The only thing that backed up what I was claiming was the PROVEN slip that stated what was achieved. In a sense those seem to be the rules when staking a claim in the world of high performance. The same with showing dyno sheets, 1/4 mile timeslips etc. etc. If you don't you open up pandora's box and anybody can say anything about what they think they achieved. Even worse is the fact that somebody can question the validity of the claim and call insubstantial evidence all day long......like this:

It is interesting how you base the added 8 mph to the best time that was achieved in Nebraska, but you seem to forget that there was other runs that must be factored into your equation. The runs in order went something like:
186 - 191 - 172. Why do you factor in the best run? Even if you got better at practicing, how do you know it really happened? Better yet how do we really know it happened? Maybe it was only 197 if you set up the exact 5280 ft, with timing and scoring like it was in Nebraska. Maybe you were off by 100 ft. Your scenario raises absolutely too many variables.

That's why there's photo finishes in competition, the horse that you think may have had his nose out front necessarily may not have.

I understand very well about the better conditions you speak of, but you also stated it yourself that there are "Differences that can change the results dramatically" and you can't just use those in your favor!!!!!!!! There are also differences that can change the results dramatically AGAINST YOU. Did you factor those in?

I'm not sure if you personally know much about automobile competition and PROVEN results? I have seen many people over the years stake performance style claims and get called on it, including myself, many times. It is very sweet when you have the backup to prove it, because you slam the door on a post like this.

Nobody gets out alive, no matter how hard you want to pretend. There are no free claims, especially in the game of high performance competition. Unless your planning on becoming a Bullshit artist.
I just went out for lunch on my rocket propelled skateboard and went 250mph in the standing 1/2 mile. I don't have to prove it.

INTEGRITY "

==> Integrity? That sure is a funny word for some people to use.......

Is it me, or is this guy downgrading what I have done and putting his own spin on what really counts?

I do understand the whole documentation thing. I accept that, but do have a personal witness and video to back it up.


Also remember the fastest stock Viper only went around 156-158 MPH in Nebraska as compared to as fast as 168 MPH to 173.1 MPH in the magazines at lower elevations.

With 60 degrees cooler ambient temperatures, very little humidity, and about 3.5 more PSI, 8 MPH was definitely attained.

In a nutshell, he is saying I did not go that fast, nor does it count.

What do you all here think?
 

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Paolo, that was a very long post so let me ask you this, what do you care? If you are talking about your tit for tat with Jr. he is very qualified, understands what it takes and has driven much faster.
You will always have someone to question and I think what he is saying is without documentation it is just your word. No different than me saying that I ran a 9.01 in the qtr mile but no one was there and I lost my time slip. My choice is to rant about "was to", "was not" all day long but so what. You know what you know, did what you did. Do you really care if he does or does not believe?
200 miles is fast on any street or track no matter what. 197 is also just about as fast but either way you did have the balls to hold your foot flat on the peddle for 1 mile where plenty of us would not.
Question: are you satisfied and if your answer is yes than so what. You should know that your words, my words, their words will most likely be challenged. The only thing to do is move on, build your TT and run a qualified 200+ 1 mile run where it can be verified. Be true to yourself, satisfy your self and nothing more matters, right. Does it really matter at the end of the day? TNT, JHM have all claimed great numbers only to be questioned. What they did after was return with all the ducks in a row and rerun with the needed verification. JR has put down some great times and speeds, they have worked on the TT long before it was the thing to do. In San Antonio he ran some great times in the qtr. even though he did not get into the 8 sec. range yet with nitrous he just might be there. :bowdown:
Good Luck with your build
Rohn
 

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Paolo

Honestly, I believe you went that fast. I believe you will go faster in the future.

However I feel it needs to happen at a official event for it to be completely legit.

I feel the same way with Drag racing things. Every Record is now broken and established at the V-10 Nationals (except the 6 speed record) the good thing about this is it is done with everyones view and the same playing field.

Your goal should be enter the next event with the mile and put it down. Even though we are sure it has been done but this makes it more than he said she said he makes it official.

Regards
 

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The only 200 MPH supercharged Viper standing mile on the street! I do not need to prove it! => WHO'S YOUR DADDY!

Looks like Jr's your daddy. You better stop crying before he gets back or you're gonna get the whip again. /images/graemlins/supergrin.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
BAD VPR said:
The only 200 MPH supercharged Viper standing mile on the street! I do not need to prove it! => WHO'S YOUR DADDY!

Looks like Jr's your daddy. You better stop crying before he gets back or you're gonna get the whip again. /images/graemlins/supergrin.gif
BAD VPR: If you think I am crying, look again. I have asked people for their opinions and I know where you stand. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Good luck in all future endeavors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dr Roof said:
Paolo

Honestly, I believe you went that fast. I believe you will go faster in the future.

However I feel it needs to happen at a official event for it to be completely legit.

I feel the same way with Drag racing things. Every Record is now broken and established at the V-10 Nationals (except the 6 speed record) the good thing about this is it is done with everyones view and the same playing field.

Your goal should be enter the next event with the mile and put it down. Even though we are sure it has been done but this makes it more than he said she said he makes it official.

Regards
David, thank you for your response.

I am working very hard and planning to enter when the car is ready.

I just do not like people to say it means nothing, that's all.

I agree and have stated that official documentation is important but doing it on the street is not always documentable beyond what I have done to show/prove it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
jkracer said:
Paolo, that was a very long post so let me ask you this, what do you care? If you are talking about your tit for tat with Jr. he is very qualified, understands what it takes and has driven much faster.
You will always have someone to question and I think what he is saying is without documentation it is just your word. No different than me saying that I ran a 9.01 in the qtr mile but no one was there and I lost my time slip. My choice is to rant about "was to", "was not" all day long but so what. You know what you know, did what you did. Do you really care if he does or does not believe?
200 miles is fast on any street or track no matter what. 197 is also just about as fast but either way you did have the balls to hold your foot flat on the peddle for 1 mile where plenty of us would not.
Question: are you satisfied and if your answer is yes than so what. You should know that your words, my words, their words will most likely be challenged. The only thing to do is move on, build your TT and run a qualified 200+ 1 mile run where it can be verified. Be true to yourself, satisfy your self and nothing more matters, right. Does it really matter at the end of the day? TNT, JHM have all claimed great numbers only to be questioned. What they did after was return with all the ducks in a row and rerun with the needed verification. JR has put down some great times and speeds, they have worked on the TT long before it was the thing to do. In San Antonio he ran some great times in the qtr. even though he did not get into the 8 sec. range yet with nitrous he just might be there. :bowdown:
Good Luck with your build
Rohn
Rohn, I do not care outside of the fact it was said it means nothing. I do not like certain people's attitudes regarding this. But like you said, I just have to get my car done and put down the #. I am working hard to do just that and to be true to myself like you say. Take care and will take care of business. Paolo
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Craig201MPH said:
If a stock GTS can hit 170 surely a car with double the power can put another 30MPH on that.
Craig, I would agree with you. Keep in mind that the stock Vipers were only going 156-158 MPH due to the elevation.

That's why I was saying that 3.5 more PSI, 60 degrees cooler and 2500 ft. less elevaton(this is part of the +3.5 PSI) would make for the +8 MPH.
 

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I'm just surprised you are so thin-skinned. I'll give you credit, you can certainly talk the smack, you just need to figure out how to take it.

I for one can't wait to see how your car turns out. Turbo cars will undoubtedly start pulling big numbers on the dynos. And I'm sure you will put it through its paces. Good luck.

Chad
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
BAD VPR said:
I'm just surprised you are so thin-skinned. I'll give you credit, you can certainly talk the smack, you just need to figure out how to take it.

I for one can't wait to see how your car turns out. Turbo cars will undoubtedly start pulling big numbers on the dynos. And I'm sure you will put it through its paces. Good luck.

Chad
Chad, you know, you might have a point about taking the smack. /images/graemlins/laughing.gif

I will keep you posted!
 

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Dr Roof said:
Paolo

Honestly, I believe you went that fast. I believe you will go faster in the future.

However I feel it needs to happen at a official event for it to be completely legit.


I also believe that was the point of the post. PC's isn't looking for a number to be officially documented, just relaying what happened that night. It is a claim that occured, just not at an official event, but then again, I don't think that in any way diminshes the accomplishment.


Just like in drag racing. My personal best did not occur at an event, but that does not mean I did not go that fast. Vipers with this much power are certainly capable of these speeds, given the right conditions. Stay tuned.
 

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Doing something outside an official event is not "nothing" - it is something.

It is something to the person who did it, and it is something they are free to share with others - as long as they recognize that they can't claim any record or claim the achievement ranks with an official result.

I think Paolo has acknowledged that

How fast would the SVS car have gone in the same air and elevation?

Nobody knows - so it is not about comparisons. The SVS car holds the official Viper record and no casual claim can change that until a sanctioned event sees the record broken.

Jr is right - accuracy and independent verification is essential to claiming a record. Maybe the car only did 198.8mph that night... but maybe it did 202.6mph....

We've all done something nobody else will recognize e.g. my best deadlift was with nobody around. My best ever 440 track time was in road running shoes and on grass. Neither counted except to me. Because i never got back into competition, I never got a chance to beat my time on a proper track and in sprint shoes - combined worth at least a second....

To me, I still beat my long time goal for the 440 sprint - i just can't claim it as official. It mattered to me because I'd always wanted to run a sub 50. Likewise - it matters to Paolo, he always wanted to run 200mph inside a mile. He knew his car had it in it with more boost and better elevation and air. He satisifed to HIMSELF (not the world) that his car could do it in more ideal conditions.

Others can believe it or not. There will be official events where offical results will record what happens on the day - and everyone will use those figures as offical results, not the casual ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Torquemonster said:
Doing something outside an official event is not "nothing" - it is something.

It is something to the person who did it, and it is something they are free to share with others - as long as they recognize that they can't claim any record or claim the achievement ranks with an official result.

I think Paolo has acknowledged that

How fast would the SVS car have gone in the same air and elevation?

Nobody knows - so it is not about comparisons. The SVS car holds the official Viper record and no casual claim can change that until a sanctioned event sees the record broken.

Jr is right - accuracy and independent verification is essential to claiming a record. Maybe the car only did 198.8mph that night... but maybe it did 202.6mph....

We've all done something nobody else will recognize e.g. my best deadlift was with nobody around. My best ever 440 track time was in road running shoes and on grass. Neither counted except to me. Because i never got back into competition, I never got a chance to beat my time on a proper track and in sprint shoes - combined worth at least a second....

To me, I still beat my long time goal for the 440 sprint - i just can't claim it as official. It mattered to me because I'd always wanted to run a sub 50. Likewise - it matters to Paolo, he always wanted to run 200mph inside a mile. He knew his car had it in it with more boost and better elevation and air. He satisifed to HIMSELF (not the world) that his car could do it in more ideal conditions.

Others can believe it or not. There will be official events where offical results will record what happens on the day - and everyone will use those figures as offical results, not the casual ones.
Barry, as usual, you hit the nail right on the head.

I had always wanted to run 200 MPH in the mile. I only expected to go around 192 MPH in the mile in Nebraska and went almost dead on. I was very impressed with the power of turbos in Nebraska. I was impressed that turbos would make the same boost at higher elevation by just spinning faster with the thinner air. I lost a tad more than 1 PSI on the boost gauge at 3,000 ft elevation with the supercharger.

I knew the lower elevation here combined with the 30 degree ambient temperature would give me a huge boost(literally and figuratively).

There is no doubt in my mind the SVS turbo car that ran 200.04 MPH in Nebraska would have run much faster in the cooler Chicago temperatures as well. That was never disputed here. On another thread, In the process of smack talking, I asked Moundir if he had done the standing mile he said he was going to do when he got his car back. It is unfortunate he did not get the chance to lay one down on video......

Like you said, I personally wanted to hit the 200 MPH mark in the mile.... I did not have the luxury to participate in an event recently to have it documented.

After seeing what the turbos could do, I decided to go the turbo route as well. I decided to make a system to my own specifications to see what I could do. We shall see soon enough. I do plan to compete in sanctioned events when the car is ready.

I would have to say that I am one of the only people to run 200 MPH in the mile on the street whether it can be proven to some peoples satisfaction or not really does not concern me. Like I have already stated, I just objected to it being said that it means nothing, that's all.

Congrats on your sub 50 second 440! I bet my dalmatian could help push you to an even faster one if she could run alongside you. She has run a 4 minute mile after just rolling out of bed! I can't prove it, but my bike speedo read over 15 MPH for the mile period she ran. Deep in her heart, she knows she did and so do I! Maybe you both can come out of retirement and get some documentation to back up these claims! /images/graemlins/laughing.gif
 

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Since you are the King of picking apart peoples posts I feel compelled to defend myself on one issue that you are looking for sympathy on.

This was the start of my original post:

"Unsanctioned performance competition style events like private testing down a highway mean nothing." (when looking to act or promote like you staked an official claim or boast about an unproven fact) That is how I felt and what I should have added.

In the context of what has been happening around this situation from the beginning of when the video was first posted I have seen actions that obviously motivated me to put in my 2cents.

I think that independent testing as well as high-speed videos, pictures of events, accomplishments, naked girl’s etc.etc. are all great for the promotion of the high performance world.

But,

a situation like staking a claim and twisting up the promotion by saying 206mph standing mile run leaves insinuation and ???????? on the table. This was when the video was first aired on the board. I also questioned it then.

We have worked very hard to gain our accomplishments in sanctioned high performance competition style events. I think self testing to self promote what could seem like a record is taking shortcuts to sanctioned competition paths. Then reading about unproven claimed achievements and self promotion boasting without proven results is when I feel compelled to question the claims. I'm merely defending my position and calling it for what it is.

I never said that it couldn't be done or that even under the better conditions it couldn't be achieved. I know very well that Paolo is capable of taking on the pursuit of highspeed. Remember that he used to be a customer of ours. As far as I know he is the only one interested in knocking our records off the hill at the Salt Flats. It's about time somebody stepped up to the plate! The fact is that it does take a great amount to go compete and stake a claim. Competition creates a completely different environment than just going out and doing it on your own.

Since you have called me the "King"(something I have never acted like or tried to impress upon people) I command you to get your TT system finished so I can whoop your ass on the Salt Flats......or the 1/4 mile........and most of all......The STANDING MILE /images/graemlins/smiles
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
SVS Turbo said:
Since you are the King of picking apart peoples posts I feel compelled to defend myself on one issue that you are looking for sympathy on.

This was the start of my original post:

"Unsanctioned performance competition style events like private testing down a highway mean nothing." (when looking to act or promote like you staked an official claim or boast about an unproven fact) That is how I felt and what I should have added.

In the context of what has been happening around this situation from the beginning of when the video was first posted I have seen actions that obviously motivated me to put in my 2cents.

I think that independent testing as well as high-speed videos, pictures of events, accomplishments, naked girl’s etc.etc. are all great for the promotion of the high performance world.

But,

a situation like staking a claim and twisting up the promotion by saying 206mph standing mile run leaves insinuation and ???????? on the table. This was when the video was first aired on the board. I also questioned it then.

We have worked very hard to gain our accomplishments in sanctioned high performance competition style events. I think self testing to self promote what could seem like a record is taking shortcuts to sanctioned competition paths. Then reading about unproven claimed achievements and self promotion boasting without proven results is when I feel compelled to question the claims. I'm merely defending my position and calling it for what it is.

I never said that it couldn't be done or that even under the better conditions it couldn't be achieved. I know very well that Paolo is capable of taking on the pursuit of highspeed. Remember that he used to be a customer of ours. As far as I know he is the only one interested in knocking our records off the hill at the Salt Flats. It's about time somebody stepped up to the plate! The fact is that it does take a great amount to go compete and stake a claim. Competition creates a completely different environment than just going out and doing it on your own.

Since you have called me the "King"(something I have never acted like or tried to impress upon people) I command you to get your TT system finished so I can whoop your ass on the Salt Flats......or the 1/4 mile........and most of all......The STANDING MILE /images/graemlins/smiles
Jr. I have only called you the king of the high speed salt flats deal. It was purely a compliment.


As far as the 206 MPH thing is concerned, I had somebody upload that initial poor quality video and they obviously got the facts mixed up. I am not computer savvy enough yet nor do I have the equipment to upload videos. I never claimed 206 MPH. I have said 200 MPH in the mile, nothing more.

As far as the Salt FLats thing is concerned, I do not think it will be too soon I try that as I need to learn how one does such a thing. There are many rules and it will take a bit to assimilate the information and take care of business. I definitely would like to see what I can do at the Salt Flats eventually.

I will do my best to prepare for our future competitions in the mile and 1/4 mile. We will see how it goes.

I look foreward to the competition. I will be ready when I am ready. Good luck in your preparation, I wish you all the best!
 

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Cool.

Your persistence will pay dividends. We only have so much energy to focus on the most productive areas for ourselves. Good luck with your Turbo project and I'm sure we will meet at an event somewhere!

Peace out :thumb:
 

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Paolo
At the salt flats (Bonneville) I would think that aerodynamics would play as big a part as HP when you are ruining over 200. Looking at Jr's car many times it looks like they spent many hours closing up any holes that could trap and would trap air. Starting with the wheel covers, under the entire car and more.
If you do make a run to the salt flats let us know, I will be there.

rohn
 
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