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Trey, I think that's a little extreme - right now we're operating on a he said basis and Apex as we know has made some killer Viper motors. I find the fact that everyone over at the morgue (and here) throws their two cents in quite annoying and it seems like quite a bandwagon post (no one mentioned anything until Torquie posted). Why don't you wait and see how the situation is resolved before rating someone poorly?

Just my :twocents:
 

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Clint Sever said:
Trey, I think that's a little extreme - right now we're operating on a he said basis and Apex as we know has made some killer Viper motors. I find the fact that everyone over at the morgue (and here) throws their two cents in quite annoying and it seems like quite a bandwagon post (no one mentioned anything until Torquie posted). Why don't you wait and see how the situation is resolved before rating someone poorly?

Just my :twocents:
i think there are exceptions. there are several guys that have seen first hand the reason Mash's car went to shit. it comes across as all the heffner guys are jumping to heffner's defense, but what is really happening is, we are pointing out what happened. in other words, there is nothing to defend as far as heffner's case is concerned. all the heffner guys that are commenting have seen the actual intake in question. i put my hand into the intake inlet and felt the grit. it came out on my fingers like you would expect. i think people like trey, who know me very well, know i wouldnt make up bullshit to promote one tuner, and diss another.
 

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Clint Sever said:
Trey, I think that's a little extreme - right now we're operating on a he said basis and Apex as we know has made some killer Viper motors. I find the fact that everyone over at the morgue (and here) throws their two cents in quite annoying and it seems like quite a bandwagon post (no one mentioned anything until Torquie posted). Why don't you wait and see how the situation is resolved before rating someone poorly?

Just my :twocents:
Clint I would normally agree. But Jason & Eric were eyewitnesses. They're both friends of mine and I trust them. It doesn't look to me as if Apex is going to do the right thing. But who knows? Stranger things have happened.

Also I thought Apex had only sold 2 of these packages. And one was a company/employee test Viper? The other (Mash) engine failure? I say that because you mentioned the fact that they've made some "killer Viper motors". I may be wrong, won't be the first/last, but I've never even heard of 1. I hear about people buying parts from them here & there but as far as "killer Viper pkgs" haven't heard anything.
 

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I hate it when Viper Tuners go bad!
 

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Clint Sever said:
Trey, I think that's a little extreme - right now we're operating on a he said basis and Apex as we know has made some killer Viper motors. I find the fact that everyone over at the morgue (and here) throws their two cents in quite annoying and it seems like quite a bandwagon post (no one mentioned anything until Torquie posted). Why don't you wait and see how the situation is resolved before rating someone poorly?

Just my :twocents:
Killer Viper Motors? I believe you use a plural in that sentence. I know of ONE and that was on Wayne's car....im not sure if he was/is an employee, but he was closely tied to the shop somehow...Ive heard rumors about that engine as well. And as far as the other one goes, well thats been the subject at hand. Bandwagon post? NOPE, I saw the intake manifold. Im also seeing how they are handling this sitaution right now. Are you impressed? Would you be if this was YOUR CAR? :rolleyes:
 

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King GTS said:
Clint Sever said:
Trey, I think that's a little extreme - right now we're operating on a he said basis and Apex as we know has made some killer Viper motors. I find the fact that everyone over at the morgue (and here) throws their two cents in quite annoying and it seems like quite a bandwagon post (no one mentioned anything until Torquie posted). Why don't you wait and see how the situation is resolved before rating someone poorly?

Just my :twocents:
Clint I would normally agree. But Jason & Eric were eyewitnesses. They're both friends of mine and I trust them. It doesn't look to me as if Apex is going to do the right thing. But who knows? Stranger things have happened.

Also I thought Apex had only sold 2 of these packages. And one was a company/employee test Viper? The other (Mash) engine failure? I say that because you mentioned the fact that they've made some "killer Viper motors". I may be wrong, won't be the first/last, but I've never even heard of 1. I hear about people buying parts from them here & there but as far as "killer Viper pkgs" haven't heard anything.
Trey,
Excellent post and I definitly see your point(s) - the Viper motors I were referring to was the one outlined in Car and Driver and I thought I had remembered Wayne posting about other Apex cars (sorry, I can search for them).
The one thing I remember about Apex that raised my eyebrows was when they kept posting about their "Lethal 1000" and the project just kinda slipped away, even when specifically inquired about, it was always the same "Well, there's some more tuning, etc."

BTW, I totally trust Eric and Jason too, I didn't mean to imply that I didn't.
 

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Smokin said:
Clint Sever said:
Trey, I think that's a little extreme - right now we're operating on a he said basis and Apex as we know has made some killer Viper motors. I find the fact that everyone over at the morgue (and here) throws their two cents in quite annoying and it seems like quite a bandwagon post (no one mentioned anything until Torquie posted). Why don't you wait and see how the situation is resolved before rating someone poorly?

Just my :twocents:
Killer Viper Motors? I believe you use a plural in that sentence. I know of ONE and that was on Wayne's car....im not sure if he was/is an employee, but he was closely tied to the shop somehow...Ive heard rumors about that engine as well. And as far as the other one goes, well thats been the subject at hand. Bandwagon post? NOPE, I saw the intake manifold. Im also seeing how they are handling this sitaution right now. Are you impressed? Would you be if this was YOUR CAR? :rolleyes:
Jason, read my post above. Also, no I'm absolutely NOT impressed with this issue and it has narrowed my trusted tuner focus significantly (Heffner and Levin, and maybe Hennessey). I guess I see that Apex DOES have a point about the warranty issue and that it is unclear to me wether Apex Extrude Hones all of it's manifolds or outsources them to "Extrude Hone". (My impression is that it's the latter). I feel that it's a gross quality control error on Apex's part, but the lack of firsthand evidence (excluding you and Eric) bothers me and leads me to believe that there's more to the story. Although I don't necessarily feel sorry for Mash as he was a terrorist supporting asshole.
 

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Clint Sever said:
Smokin said:
Clint Sever said:
Trey, I think that's a little extreme - right now we're operating on a he said basis and Apex as we know has made some killer Viper motors. I find the fact that everyone over at the morgue (and here) throws their two cents in quite annoying and it seems like quite a bandwagon post (no one mentioned anything until Torquie posted). Why don't you wait and see how the situation is resolved before rating someone poorly?

Just my :twocents:
Killer Viper Motors? I believe you use a plural in that sentence. I know of ONE and that was on Wayne's car....im not sure if he was/is an employee, but he was closely tied to the shop somehow...Ive heard rumors about that engine as well. And as far as the other one goes, well thats been the subject at hand. Bandwagon post? NOPE, I saw the intake manifold. Im also seeing how they are handling this sitaution right now. Are you impressed? Would you be if this was YOUR CAR? :rolleyes:
Jason, read my post above. Also, no I'm absolutely NOT impressed with this issue and it has narrowed my trusted tuner focus significantly (Heffner and Levin, and maybe Hennessey). I guess I see that Apex DOES have a point about the warranty issue and that it is unclear to me wether Apex Extrude Hones all of it's manifolds or outsources them to "Extrude Hone". (My impression is that it's the latter). I feel that it's a gross quality control error on Apex's part, but the lack of firsthand evidence (excluding you and Eric) bothers me and leads me to believe that there's more to the story. Although I don't necessarily feel sorry for Mash as he was a terrorist supporting asshole.
you mention above that you trust jason and i, and whether you actually do or dont doesnt matter. but you believe there is more to the story when i can 100% guarantee there really isnt. they didnt clean the intake correctly, the "grit" got internal, and then the cylinders were losing compression, the was car losing hp, etc. there really isnt anything more to add. all this other drama is b/c Apex isnt assuming the responsibility, not b/c there is something missing. i can assure you that...
 

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I think the whole point of a message board is to discuss things, disseminate information, and for folks to basically BS about this or that.

Sometimes, the topic of discussion is a serious one, like this. The whole point of posting it originally was so that various people could weigh in and give their opinion, and to "expose" this dirty little secret and let it be handled in a public manner, because it hasn't been able to be handled because some folks just don't seem motivated to work it out.

This is actually an issue that goes back 6 months or more. It's not something I just learned about, and it's something I kept hearing about from folks involved, and as time went by I was more and more amazed that it STILL hadn't been taken care of.

The other guys are right. Apex has built exactly two of these packages. Wayne, the owner of the first apparently is no longer associated with Apex, for whatever reason (I don't know what that is). The other one blew up due to a gross mistake by someone at either Apex or the honing place. Now Apex says they aren't doing Vipers anymore. That kinda sucks for the one customer they got for their engine package. And what you have is not a bunch of band-wagoners, but rather a group of fellow owners trying to prevent one owner from getting dicked by a company that appears not to be in the Viper biz anymore, and doesn't seem to care if they end up dicking over someone on their way out.

All IMO of course.
 

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King GTS said:
Which brings up another point. If it's been 6 months (1/2 a year) and Apex hasn't lifted a finger.......I doubt they'll do anything at all.
well i think you are right. i think they are taking advantage of Mash being out of the country, and to some extent it is Mash's fault that it hasnt happened any sooner. Apex has very slowly creeped out of the Viper market all together. hell, i had no idea until the mash 550 stroker thread on .org. heffner is doing what he can, and HAS communicated with Apex on Mash's behalf, but Apex is giving the cold shoulder. there is only so much you can do outside the court room if the responsible party will not fess up and make the situation right
 

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I give that guy 60K out the door for it. Not 80K.
 
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