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-   -   Lutz: Why the Viper died. (https://www.viperalley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268962)

sundiego February 8th, 2017 08:53 PM

Lutz: Why the Viper died.
 
The Father of the Dodge Viper Says It Died Because It Ran Out of Reasons to Live

8.0L>1.8T February 8th, 2017 09:26 PM

Everyone wants an iPad that's a car..
I really liked what he said about BMW, true, you can get a fully loaded Honda with more bells and whistles than an entry level 3 series. BMW is, however, still tossing around some cool tech. Anyone check out the "Summon" feature on the new 7?

Anyway, I like Viper for what it is: A weekend toy. Something I can drive to a buddies and drink all day in. Just not the same feeling showing up in a Cadillac. Having said that, I wouldn't want to daily my Viper. Not because of adding miles, or even comfort, it's the mindset.

dave6666 February 9th, 2017 02:57 AM

I sleep and fart in mine.

Ozzi February 9th, 2017 07:14 AM

"Tesla, the ultimate cash incinerator" LOLS

ViperJon February 9th, 2017 08:54 AM

Lutz has been a GM pimp for years, he seems to enjoy denigrating the Viper now despite his history with it.

Viper Explorer February 9th, 2017 09:14 AM

He nailed the BMW issue, they've completely lost their way. Neighbor works for them and has a new M3, fast yes but thats it.... go drive an ATS-V and the M3 will feel like a fat numb bloated barge that also sounds like shit, seriously car sounds fucking awful, everytime he pulls away while I'm walking my dogs it sounds like some some pos with an exhaust falling apart, and full throttle ain't better. They have a 440i as well and it sounds far far better. The last great car BMW made was the E39 M5.

trick February 10th, 2017 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper Explorer (Post 4258546)
He nailed the BMW issue, they've completely lost their way. Neighbor works for them and has a new M3, fast yes but thats it.... go drive an ATS-V and the M3 will feel like a fat numb bloated barge that also sounds like shit, seriously car sounds fucking awful, everytime he pulls away while I'm walking my dogs it sounds like some some pos with an exhaust falling apart, and full throttle ain't better. They have a 440i as well and it sounds far far better. The last great car BMW made was the E39 M5.

I'm kinda a BMW nut just because of the history, I would say the ultimate car they made for me was the e36 M3's.
I know I know the e36 was "underpowered" even tho it had close to the same HP as a 911 in 1996...

I have a M coupe (if you don't know its a small hatch with the M3 motor) and it solves all the problems I've ever had with driving a Miata or 240 for track days, its stiffer and much more torque..

I think the main reason the Viper isn't what it should be is because it is analog in a digital age, people want the GTR that is programmed to make you a better driver...

Viper is the feeling, the experience, in the day of social media, and instant gratification its all about what things appear as, so the vipers strong points fall by the wayside

sundiego February 10th, 2017 11:26 AM

Viper had 100hp more than anything, and could corner and stop with the best with durable, affordable components.

trick February 10th, 2017 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundiego (Post 4259802)
Viper had 100hp more than anything, and could corner and stop with the best with durable, affordable components.

I wasn't talking about viper in the first paragraph.

With that being said, read a site like jalopnik (millennial) all talk about how the viper is "a death machine" and "can't corner" and "can't get traction"

the next gen of kids coming want everything to be easy, they don't want to do the work to become a good or fast driver they want a car that when they downshift the car matches revs for them... Heal toe shifts will be gone in 10 years.

Its sad but true. If viper ever comes back it will be a V8 with a turbo and a DCT... SAD very SAD

Viper Explorer February 10th, 2017 03:18 PM

The other thing is they royally royally royally fucked up marketing and promotion for the Gen V.... I don't think anyone in that division went to marketing 101 classes. I remember the Miami auto show down here just as the Gen V was launching, they had one there, like right next to if I recall a pos Dodge Avenger like it was just some plebian car, no reps to promote it, no special display nothing. Meanwhile the Durango had a completely ropped off and crazy promotion spinning platform with girl reps talking about it non stop all night. Viper just sat there like it was nothing, and doors were locked... the only vehicle there that night that you couldn't open and sit in. If you went up to the Viper, nobody came up to you, go up to the Avenger or other pos Chrylser and a rep would come running over to talk about the car blah blah blah. Tons of money at that show, outside parking lot was covered in Bentleys, exotics, sports cars etc.... perfect place to promote the Viper... nope. Chevy on the other hand had two crazy displays for the C7 including one as you were walking in.

Or lets send in cars for mag testing, with parts falling off... and mismatched worn tires :lolcry:

IC Prey February 10th, 2017 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper Explorer (Post 4260026)
The other thing is they royally royally royally fucked up marketing and promotion for the Gen V.... I don't think anyone in that division went to marketing 101 classes. I remember the Miami auto show down here just as the Gen V was launching, they had one there, like right next to if I recall a pos Dodge Avenger like it was just some plebian car, no reps to promote it, no special display nothing. Meanwhile the Durango had a completely ropped off and crazy promotion spinning platform with girl reps talking about it non stop all night. Viper just sat there like it was nothing, and doors were locked... the only vehicle there that night that you couldn't open and sit in. If you went up to the Viper, nobody came up to you, go up to the Avenger or other pos Chrylser and a rep would come running over to talk about the car blah blah blah. Tons of money at that show, outside parking lot was covered in Bentleys, exotics, sports cars etc.... perfect place to promote the Viper... nope. Chevy on the other hand had two crazy displays for the C7 including one as you were walking in.

Or lets send in cars for mag testing, with parts falling off... and mismatched worn tires :lolcry:

Nail on Head...The marketing department for the Viper should all be on welfare.
MANY bad moves made by Doouh like pricing, my fully loaded 14 GTS was 156,488 new and even with the 15K rebate was 141,488!!! They made customers who ordered 13s wait up to a year for delivery while they supplied their worthless dealer network FIRST. Not one good commercial for the car until its on its way out and its the ACR mixed in with the other crap.
The only reason why the Viper is sold out now is because of its demise and you still have morons drinking the cool-aide to buy a 140-180K ACR,lol

Viper Explorer February 10th, 2017 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IC Prey (Post 4260082)
Nail on Head...The marketing department for the Viper should all be on welfare.
MANY bad moves made by Doouh like pricing, my fully loaded 14 GTS was 156,488 new and even with the 15K rebate was 141,488!!! They made customers who ordered 13s wait up to a year for delivery while they supplied their worthless dealer network FIRST. Not one good commercial for the car until its on its way out and its the ACR mixed in with the other crap.
The only reason why the Viper is sold out now is because of its demise and you still have morons drinking the cool-aide to buy a 140-180K ACR,lol

I'll never forget the Miami auto show, I left that night like wtf, think I even posted on here. I could not believe they just stuck the car on the floor like it was a Civic with no promotion or anything, and locked the fucking doors so you couldn't even sit in it. But you could open any other vehicle there and sit in. You'd see people go up to it and try to open and then walk away like wtf whys the doors locked. A rep told me their not allowed to open the Viper :screwy:

They were too busy putting the Durango, that had already been out a couple years, on a spinning ropped off platform with hot chick reps yapping about it drawing attention in..... what moron said yes lets put the Durango there, fuck the Viper.

Tesla, Porsche, Cadillac, Volvo, Jag etc all had far better setups and promotions for their cars. Hell the Ford Raptor was right across from the Viper and was drawing in attention like crazy.

Uncle Paul February 11th, 2017 02:41 PM

Some are making the case that Tesla is the new Viper.

While not a track car, it does 0-60 in 2.2 seconds. It does not have the emotional aspect of previous gas powered supercars, but eco performance is the new thing.

sundiego February 11th, 2017 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Paul (Post 4260746)
Some are making the case that Tesla is the new Viper.

No one who can fucking drive is making that case.

The Viper is an analog vehicle that is really tough and challenging to drive at the limit on a road course. It is hard to even get good 1/4 miles out of it. It takes skill.

I've driven the Tesla with factory guys at a manufacturers' event at Thermal track outside Palm Springs. The Tesla people wouldn't allow it on the track, just the roads because it is an overweight pig on the track. They admitted that. It is an automated appliance that is a no skill, one trick pony. It can accelerate quickly in a straight line. It is the poster car for "Drag Racing for Dummies".

When stage 4 self driving kicks in probably later this year I'll buy one for my wife. She hates to drive. I'll take it out when I don't want to drive in stop and go traffic.

The Tesla is the opposite of the Viper.

It is the Viagra of cars. If you can't get it up, it helps you pretend.

Uncle Paul February 12th, 2017 01:54 AM

Key phrase is "While not a track car"

For racers, the Viper is till the ultimate tool. for a production track car, but for street use, the 4 Wheel drive electric car will dominate.

The earlier Vipers made the driver feel like a superstar, but as the later models added ABS, Launch control, Electronic stability control, sophisticated differential control and cruise control, the driver just became along for the ride, just like all the other Uber performance vehicles. The computer delivers the performance number as much as the driver.

In the pretty near future electric vehicles will put down the numbers while the ICE vehicles will provide the driver experience.

Viagra does not pretend to get you up....it gets you up. If the girl is not pretty, or the guy has issues, it gets the job done.

plumcrazy February 12th, 2017 05:40 AM

<<---- no experience with viagra

dave6666 February 12th, 2017 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plumcrazy (Post 4261010)
<<---- no experience with viagra

Or prison.

8.0L>1.8T February 12th, 2017 07:54 AM

Uhhhhhhh...

sundiego February 12th, 2017 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Paul (Post 4260994)
Key phrase is "While not a track car"

For racers, the Viper is till the ultimate tool. for a production track car, but for street use, the 4 Wheel drive electric car will dominate.

The earlier Vipers made the driver feel like a superstar, but as the later models added ABS, Launch control, Electronic stability control, sophisticated differential control and cruise control, the driver just became along for the ride, just like all the other Uber performance vehicles. The computer delivers the performance number as much as the driver.

In the pretty near future electric vehicles will put down the numbers while the ICE vehicles will provide the driver experience.

Viagra does not pretend to get you up....it gets you up. If the girl is not pretty, or the guy has issues, it gets the job done.

Have you driven A Gen V at speed on a track, or near it's limits on the street? In the words of a friend: "It drives civilized, then when you push it hard you can go Vipering.". The Nissan GTR nannies control the show, the Vipers' stay away until you overcook it.

The early Vipers did not make me feel like a superstar. Mine terrified me until i built up some skill.

The Tesla does a great job of isolating you from skill while still providing that whoosh. Anyone that thinks it is the next Viper hasn't driven a performance car hard in years. Matching the revs on a hard downshift, judging corning speed and braking point and positioning the car just right on a corner give a personal feeling of accomplishment to a real driver.

I cannot knowledgeably debate you on Viagra, but I can on real driving cars versus high performance appliances. It could be knowledge of Viagra increases when recent high performance driving experience decreases.

BlackSnake99 February 12th, 2017 09:48 AM

Are we really debating Tesla vs. Viper performance? LOL!



Yes, the Tesla will do 0-60 in 2.2 sec.... once. The next time it's 2.4 sec. Then 2.7.....


https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forum...ttery-depletes


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