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So, how is it going these days in the Viper world?

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So, how is it going these days in the Viper world?
Old May 24th, 2014, 02:20 PM   #1
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Arrow So, how is it going these days in the Viper world?

Thought I would stop by and see if Viper Utopia had been reached yet, given that the "Chrysler vs. VCA War" is over, all the "evil doers" are gone, and everybody should be part of one big happy Viper family. Surprise, surprise - no utopia and no happy family. Instead you have the apparent collapse of SRT as an independent brand, the two owner clubs continue to fire shots at one another (more one-sided from what I have been reading), CAAP is shut down, and Viper sales are in the tank. So how is all that working out? It would seem that reality bites.

At the advice of counsel, I have kept quiet as the dust settled. At first I was pretty pissed that so many that knew the truth were hiding from it, then just disappointed to see the lack of integrity of so many others that failed to speak up. As Martin Luther King once said, “The day we see the truth and cease to speak is the day we begin to die.

You see, most of the then-VCA and now-VOA leaders were very well aware of what was happening between SRT and the VCA. Scratch that – between Ralph Gilles and the VCA. They also knew why those things were happening - and it didn’t have anything to do with transparency, finances, Chris, Marv, VPA, or how the club was being managed. Ask Adrian and Tony at VOA what was said in the January 2013 VCA board meeting, of which they were both directors. Ask Terry Bosserman and Bobby Cerchione what happened in the meeting with Ralph Gilles earlier that same week. Or ask Dan Everts of the VCA what was said in both of those meetings – plus the meeting with Chrysler in Auburn Hills in August of 2013. Maybe the Chrysler attorney in that last meeting might be willing to comment, but I seriously doubt it.

Essentially it all boiled down to ONE person at Chrysler trying to overturn the club’s business decision regarding a problematic member. That member was/is a personal friend of his. After receiving letters from concerned customers, Chrysler investigated. Among their findings were that among the items accepted by that one person at Chrysler (and/or his wife), many were in excess of what Chrysler’s published Integrity Code allowed. Those items were often received from the very people complaining about the VCA - and those same people may have received benefits from that one Chrysler employee that exceeded what most other VCA members/Viper owners ever received. The “funny business” was indeed out there – it just wasn’t where people expected it to be.

Here is a summary of those facts with no opinion or bias whatsoever:
  • In January of 2012 Jon Brobst was suspended by the unanimous vote of the attending VCA board of directors. It was a business decision based on protecting club members – nothing more, nothing less.
  • In answer to an appeal that the club had no obligation to provide, Jon admitted to the behavior that lead to the suspension – there was no denial. The suspension was upheld.
  • The suspension was for a minimum of one year, dependent solely on Jon refraining from disruptive behavior involving the club.
  • In June of 2012 Ralph Gilles asked the club to overturn that decision, but could give no business reason for doing so. He asked for more transparency and financial oversight based on complaints/accusations from some of Jon’s friends.
  • The club then provided Chrysler, the VCA board, and all regional presidents with a transparency report that provided details on more club operations than any administration had for the prior 17 years – combined.
  • The club established an independent Financial Oversight Committee to look over all aspects of club operations including VPA and VIPER magazine. It found nothing wrong and instead wrote a glowing review – the club was in the best financial position of its life.
  • During 2012 and in obvious violation of the suspension terms, Jon Brobst made multiple public posts referring to the club as “the reich” and its officers as “dicktators”. Due to those documented violations, his suspension was extended.
  • In 2013 a new board of directors took over the VCA and the treasury was flush with some $250,000 in the VCA bank account. Neither Marv nor myself were officers, nor did we have any vote in any VCA decisions for any part of 2013. That was the law.
  • In 2013, Ralph Gilles stepped up his pressure to reverse that suspension of his friend Jon Brobst. The 2013 VCA board including Adrian, Tony, Maurice, Randall, and many others could have simply ended the suspension to appease Ralph – but they did not. Even if we wanted to, neither Marv or myself could reverse the decision as we had no vote after 2012.
  • As that pressure from Ralph Gilles increased, people began writing to Chrysler as legitimate customers in the hope that Ralph would stop trying to interfere with club business.
  • Randall Arnold urged the club to expose Ralph Gilles to the mainstream media, as well as the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender media.
  • Chrysler’s Business Practices Office got involved and began investigating.
  • Included in that investigation were items that Ralph and/or Doris Gilles had received from various people including Jon Brobst, Maurice Liang, Alex Ristanovic, Janni Cone, and yes, even myself. Chrysler has a published Integrity Code that prohibits items with a value of over $30 from being accepted by any Chrysler employee – even if those items come from customers.
  • They also looked into possible benefits that some of those people may have received including a visit with Jay Leno, trip(s) to Europe, pace car drives, collecting funds for a large WPC Museum project before the museum closed, access to Chelsea Proving Grounds, and a purported six-figure book contract. Not to mention attempting to overturn an outside company’s board decision regarding one of those same people.
  • The Chrysler Business Practices Office also looked into possible violations of Viper trademarks with merchandise being sold by the Illinois and Northern California regional clubs on their regional websites (screen captures available).
  • The Chrysler Business Practices Office was contacted again after Ralph ordered the removal of the link(s) to the VCA from the DriveSRT.com site. The links were restored.
  • Pietro Gorlier (Mopar CEO) was made the lead contact for the VCA – not Ralph Gilles.
  • In July of 2013 Randall Arnold created T-shirts to sell that clearly violated Chrysler/VCA trademark rules. The Chrysler trademark attorney reviewed them and ordered them destroyed. Randall “quit” the VCA (again) as a result of their removal from the VCA site.
  • In August of 2013 a meeting was held with Pietro, Ralph, and others regarding the VCA. In that meeting Chrysler offered to restore payments for COOL memberships and allow the club to continue using Viper trademarks (in accordance with strict guidelines) in exchange for continued free advertising in VIPER magazine and on the club website.
  • Shortly thereafter a letter was received by the club which was based on a number of false statements, including references to things that were never said in any Chrysler meetings. When confronted specifically on those statements, they could not be refuted.
  • Jalopnik.com then published a story based almost entirely on an “anonymous” source that was riddled with outright lies, the biggest being that VPA was somehow owned by me and not the VCA. The VCA, including many now in VOA, knew this lie very well and ample documentation including tax filings, public records, and even the VPA home page made that lie very clear. Jalopnik was made aware of this but did nothing.
  • Even after that letter and article, the club asked us to stay on in all capacities. It appeared that the only Chrysler conflict was sending a non-profit check (VCA membership dues) to a for-profit company – Coast to Coast Management. Chrysler was then reminded that they did that exact thing with JR Thompson Company for over a decade. Ask the club what they sent to Chrysler in reply.
  • Today Dan Everts is the president of the VCA and also sits on the VPA board of directors, running both the nonprofit and for-profit companies – with no objections from Chrysler of which I am aware.
  • After Lee made certain decisions, including his resignation, the VCA board of directors was eager to restore order and bring everybody together. Jon’s suspension was dismissed, Maurice invited back, etc.
  • Rather than accepting that offer and simply putting folks like Janni, Randall, and Jim Johnson back in VCA board positions, they started their own club with Maurice in charge.
  • In one of those announcements the new VOA admitted they did not yet have permission to use Chrysler/SRT logos, yet published their new logo anyway.
  • The VOA also announced that Wilson Printing had been selected both as their printer and for club management. Wilson Printing was found to be THE most expensive printer the club considered during the bid process, with the VCA routinely paying them over $100,000 a year. Tim Wilson is also part of the LGBT community and previously dated Randall Arnold.
  • At the end of 2013 Coast to Coast accepted the club’s original request to step down (despite then being asked to stay on) and I stepped down from VPA in every capacity.
  • According to the recently published VCA budget, they are now paying more for club management than at any time with Coast to Coast – and for considerably less members (and thus less work).
  • Based on original discussions during the VPA transition and subsequent communications with Mopar, VPA appears to now have a higher payroll-to-revenue ratio than it has in the last three years.
  • The last two months I was involved with VPA were both record revenue months - the best November and best December in its four-year history – even after VOA was formed.
Starting to get the picture? Ironically the VCA could have easily sued the VOA, including certain club officers. The national club owned the US and Canada-based membership lists that the VOA used to form itself. VOA pretty much duplicated what the VCA was already doing including the dues structure, regions, benefits, etc. The one thing they made sure to do was distance themselves from any “conflict” with Ralph Gilles, despite the fact that many now managing the new club knew very well what the real conflict was. Remember, this new club was largely formed by Ralph and Doris Gilles’ personal friends. Ready for the other shoe?

Almost exactly one year ago, on May 21st, 2013, Ralph Gilles called me (three times actually). We spoke for about an hour and forty-seven minutes on one call regarding the club, Jon Brobst, and more. I can quote any part of that call exactly. I informed Chrysler I had no intention of running to the media with that information, however it is important that other Viper owners understand that even Ralph himself could not name any specific problem with the VCA.

Maurice once told me I should write a book about this. While not quite a novel, for those that have the time and inclination, read on.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 02:31 PM   #2
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Following is a proper accounting of what transpired over the past few years and how it led to the implosion of the active Viper owner community – and most likely the demise of the SRT brand and the removal of Ralph Gilles as its CEO. Just as you expected the story involves possible ethics violations, backroom dealings, and maybe even a touch or two of fraud.

But in this case it is a completely different set of players and is entirely fact based and easily verified with just a little research. Unlike the Jalopnik article which was so poorly researched that it might as well have been written by the same chimps currently compiling on the works of Shakespeare, this accounting consists of facts that are absolutely incontrovertible. Ask the people involved.

So let’s start with January of 2010: At the annual VCA board of directors meeting in Scottsdale, the club approves Viper Parts of America as a new, for-profit subsidiary to be owned 100% by the club. After that meeting officially concludes with smiles all around, the four national officers are “split up” by the rest of the board members to have a serious talk. Most of you know who those officers were, including myself, Marv, Bobby, and Lee. Board members such as Adrian Byrd, Janni Cone, Alex Ristanovic, Jim Bielenda, and Jim Johnson all spoke to us individually to communicate a single message: The VCA board of directors wanted ALL of us to stay on for another term as national officers – no exceptions. Remember to ask them yourselves if you have any doubt. Given that the pool of eligible candidates at the time was comprised of board members almost exclusively, the message was clear – those same four people would stay in office through 2012.

A year after that 2010 meeting and the club was fighting new challenges as JR Thompson Company had resigned as the club administrator and also gave up VIPER magazine. Again, ask them yourselves if you don’t believe it. The board of directors again met in January of 2011 in Scottsdale and this time discussed retaining my wife Mary to help with membership – something she had volunteered to do when JRT stepped aside. She was being paid nothing. Those board members, most of who were carried over from the same ranks as the year previous, discussed hiring Mary full time to help with the club. They researched other association management companies and then voted unanimously to hire Mary, asking she create a company (Coast to Coast Management) as the club had no direct employees. And guess what? I didn’t have a single say in any of it as I recused myself from every single meeting and discussion regarding this issue, including the eventual unanimous vote. Again, ask those board members yourselves, including the ones now running VOA.

In 2012 the club appointed an independent financial oversight committee including folks like Steve Ferguson (club founder), Lance Kouchi from California, and Adrian Byrd from New York. They looked over every facet of club operations including VPA, VIPER magazine, and club administration. They examined books, order processing, allocations, payroll (VPA), and everything else. They even looked into personal issues brought up by some critics including what VPA parts were on my Viper (what few I had were well documented – even provided pictures of the tire manufacturer dates (well before VPA was started). Their findings? Everything was in great shape. The main thing they felt could be improved upon was how VPA parts and/or sponsorships could be better allocated and tracked.

Committee Chair Steve Ferguson wrote, “So the great news is that from the financial aspect the VCA is in the best shape of its life span. We are also in the best organizational place the VCA has ever experienced, as we have all sorts of new responsibilities that the VCA is now handling on its own. The addition of VPA should only further assure that the VCA has an additional revenue vehicle to help sustain the club financials on a go forward basis. With the VCA owning 100% of all the VPA stock it is truly an asset that will not only help to generate revenue for the club but also offset VCA expenses, help INCREASE memberships, and truly be one of the best club benefits any Car Club has ever offered to members.” That was September 25th, 2012.

So what on earth could have happened less than a year later that would essentially divide the Viper Nation into warring factions? That same letter from Financial Oversight Committee Chair Steve Ferguson eerily foretold this gem, “On a side note I want to share a little VCA History with all of you. For years and yes since the very first days of the VCA there have always been views, disagreements and provocative thoughts on directions and ways to go about doing things. Those things where kept internal and discussed, argued and resolved internally by those with the proper detail and information to make those decisions. ANYONE can start a rumor, or flame up someone on the web. This is Big Kid time here in this room and we need adults making adult decisions, not children using innuendo and unfounded rumors to try and tear the VCA apart. So don’t get caught up in all the garbage because guess what the SAME people to started garbage almost 20 years ago when this club was founded are STILL trying to do that again, and it is ALL in the name of them trying to push an agenda that best serves them and NOT the needs of the actual VCA Member. So whatever you do, do what is RIGHT for the members and make sure the Members do not suffer over the petty issues some people have with other people.

He then added, “Business meetings are meant to share stances and positions but to get them resolved and put a collective face on for the good of the club. Do not let someone pushing a poison pill force it down your throat and tear apart the VCA. The VCA was built by VARY [sic] DIFFERENT points of view, and that is why it works. Maurice and I almost NEVER saw things one way and we always would disagree. But we would find the middle road and we always thought about what is best for the member and hey we followed that light and it got us to where we needed to go. Different people working for one cause will get the best job done, that provides the VCA all the views necessary to keep it the premier car club in the world!”

Well, it seems that the “same people that started that same garbage almost 20 years ago” were still at it, “using innuendo and unfounded rumors to try and tear the VCA apart” while “trying to push an agenda that best serves them and NOT the needs of the actual VCA Member.” And thus enters the elephant in the room, surrounded by his army of defenders that chose and continue to choose to ignore the facts. They are very simple, but I would request one thing from you as a reader: Put your emotions aside and look at this as a business person – be it an owner, manager, etc. Many of you understand how business operates, so look at this accordingly as that is exactly what this boils down to.

In the summer of 2011 Jon Brobst, representing his company PartsRack, became upset over an unflattering post that was made by a VCA member about him and his business. He learned of that member’s employer and called the general manager of that business to complain – even though the “dispute” had nothing to do with the employer whatsoever. According to that same GM, in that call Jon referred to that VCA member as “a jackass” and spoke of how he was wasting company time calling about his personal car. The club has that in writing from the GM of that business.

Now, imagine that happening with ANY other company or person – let’s use Amazon as an example. “Mark” has a problem with an order and calls up to complain. He gets in a heated conversation with the Amazon rep. Doesn’t matter who was rude to whom – it just grew heated and that was the end of it. Well, the Amazon rep finds out where Mark works and calls the CEO of his employer. Tells him that Mark was shopping on company time and also tells that CEO what a jackass Mark is. Can you imagine what would happen to that Amazon employee? Suspension? Termination would be far more likely.

Conversely, imagine if you were Mark and chose to call that Amazon employee’s boss. Would there be any fallout from that? Of course not. As a customer it is not unexpected or unusual to contact a supervisor (or higher) to complain about an employee, especially if they have treated you rudely or made unusual demands of you. It happens all over the world thousands of times every day. But to have the vendor call your boss, especially when the incident has nothing to do with your company, is simply unacceptable – period. For the haters out there, reverse that and imagine if a VCA officer learned where you worked (email domain, etc.) and then called your employer to say what a turd you were while wasting company time on internet forums. You would contact every member and media outlet possible.

The VCA board of directors met in January of 2012 and agreed that a minimum 1-year suspension of Jon Brobst and PartsRack was appropriate. Janni Cone even made the initial motion and it was passed unanimously by the attending board members. Included in that suspension were the terms for reinstatement. It did not call for an apology, didn’t say “automatically reinstates on X date”, nor made any unusual demands whatsoever. It simply required that no such behavior be repeated, specifically, “a demonstration to the Board's satisfaction that there has been no material repetition of any offending conduct that was or is deemed disruptive to the club or violative of the Bylaws and policies of the VCA.

In other words, Jon simply had to behave himself and all would be well. Some said that Jon simply couldn’t do it, and it turned out they were correct. Case in point: The VCA granted Jon an appeal – something that wasn’t even mentioned in the club bylaws. In his responses, he admitted to calling the VCA member’s employer, admitted telling that employer that his employee was “an ass”, and even referred to the VCA board as a “kangaroo court” – saying he expected an apology from the VCA for being suspended. Ask him yourself.

As a business person, if this was your employee would you keep them suspended and/or fire them permanently? Is there ANY excuse acceptable for that person to call the employer of one of your customers? And if they admitted it (while insulting you in the process), would you then say it was okay? Of course not. Most board members agreed but a handful of Jon’s friends on the board decided to start singing a different tune – one that had no basis in fact or logic. Jon was guilty and admitted that guilt – plain and simple. His insults of the club would continue, including public references to the club as “the reich” and the “dicktators” that ran it. Can anybody explain how that was somehow okay?
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Old May 24th, 2014, 02:41 PM   #3
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And that is when Jon pulled out the big guns – one of which would backfire so spectacularly that it may well have indirectly led to Chrysler’s recent SRT action, including the removal of Ralph Gilles as its CEO. You see, Jon was/is very close friends with Ralph and his wife Doris. He complained to Ralph about his suspension and Ralph eventually called the four national officers to his Auburn Hills office to discuss the suspension in June of 2012. Ralph went so far as to refer to a “deep seated mental issue” with Jon, but still wanted the suspension overturned. Ask anybody in that meeting, including at least two other SRT employees.

The big problem with that? The suspension was none of his business: Ralph wasn’t on the VCA board, didn’t attend any board meetings or calls where the suspension was discussed, and SRT wasn’t even paying COOL monies or sponsoring the club. Instead they were already getting free ads on the VCA website and in VIPER magazine. If anything, it should have been the customer (VCA) making demands on SRT – not the other way around. Most importantly, there was simply no logical reason to reinstate Jon Brobst or PartsRack. Brobst admitted to the behavior that led to the original suspension and continued to confront and publicly insult the club on a regular basis in direct violation of the terms of that suspension.

Ralph was politely reminded that it was club business and that he should allow the suspension to run its course without comment. Any help he wanted to provide by way of encouraging Jon to behave would be great, but it wasn’t the encouragement that would end the suspension – it was Jon’s behavior. Well, you know very well how that went and as a result the suspension was reviewed and extended by the VCA board. Ralph was incensed, writing to the VCA officers in January of 2013, “I want nothing to do with this and will with draw all our support until I better understand the motivations on both sides.” He added, “I hate it. This was the last straw for me. I am done.

Again, why would a CEO in one of the world’s largest (by revenue) companies get involved in a car club’s decision about one single member? Why would that same CEO blatantly threaten that club because of that suspension? It couldn’t be business, as it seemed almost impossible for any reasonable CEO to sacrifice 3000+ of its most loyal customers to protect the interests of one single guy that was clearly in the wrong. But in this case that one single guy happened to be a personal friend who admitted to his own guilt and continued to violate the simple terms of his suspension. There were no gray areas – there was nothing to consider. You throw a guy out of your house for punching one of your guests and all he does is stand on the sidewalk and yell insults about you and your family – are you seriously going to invite him back in? I asked Ralph a similar question on that call and he quietly replied, “Probably not.”

So Jon’s campaign got stepped up a notch, with Jon’s circle of friends coming to his defense by writing to Ralph Gilles. Ignoring the obvious guilt and continued bad behavior (not unusual for this group, as many were longtime customers of Jon), they instead began accusing the club of doing all sorts of other things. They attacked the club’s transparency, questioned the club’s financials, and hand-fed Ralph Gilles repeated servings of red herring in order to distract Ralph from the fact this his friend was guilty and did nothing to earn a return to the VCA. All documented, and often in Jon Brobst’s own words. Go search for the posts yourselves.

Soon “transparency” and committee oversight became the name of the game, with Ralph demanding it and “Team Brobst” running for national election based on it. But it turns out that “transparency” was just another ruse, because the VCA provided it in spades. In 2012 the club assigned an independent Financial Oversight Committee as shown above. The club also prepared a lengthy “transparency report” that detailed every possible facet of the club’s business – past, present, and future. It included payrolls, board votes, how COOL memberships were processed, and much more. There was no question left unanswered. That report was vetted through the VCA board of directors and given to every single VCA regional president at VOI 12 in Charlotte. It was also presented to SRT, including Ralph Gilles.

Care to guess what happened? It was summarily ignored by most, including SRT. They continued to call for more transparency even though they now knew (or should have if they read the report) everything possible about the club. That included how VPA was set up as a for-profit subsidiary of the club (owned 100% by the club) and how Coast to Coast Management was appointed by the VCA board of directors. It included how VIPER magazine was paid as well. It covered the financial aspects of the club including how JRT had processed memberships, raffles, etc. Mind you, the club had NEVER been asked for “transparency” outside of basic financial statements (which it continued to provide), but when asked it provided everything it possibly could. Yet still that group screamed for transparency as though it never happened. Ask the regional presidents and the board members (most now in VOA) what was provided.

Jon Brobst stayed suspended and the pressure from Ralph continued to increase. Ironically, both Marv and myself were now completely out of club management roles as of 2013 – we offered advice when solicited (and sometimes when not) but had no vote in VCA decisions. It was the new officers that took the next hit from Ralph, coming in another Auburn Hills meeting in January of 2013. According to accounts after that meeting, Ralph again threatened the club regarding Jon’s suspension. Those officers, as well as Terry Bosserman from Ohio (standing in for Randall Arnold) told the rest of the board exactly what transpired in that meeting. The 2013 board of directors, many of them freshly elected or appointed to office, had their annual board meeting right after that meeting took place with Ralph.

According to reports from that meeting, most were upset with Ralph Gilles’ treatment of the club and his continued threats regarding the Brobst suspension. Reportedly those board members discussed everything from writing letters to Sergio Marchionne (Ralph’s boss) to simply cutting off SRT completely. After all, here was an outside party attempting to influence or interfere with business decisions made by an independent board of directors – something that few businesses would tolerate. Yet in the end the club agreed to sooth Ralph by giving Jon Brobst six months to demonstrate good behavior and then get back in the club. Mind you, that same board, including Jon and Ralph’s mutual friend Maurice Liang, could have simply ended the suspension during that meeting but chose not to.

Turns out that there was probably a reason for that too: A select group of board members were already planning to form a competing club – in August of 2012, well before the Great Implosion of 2013 that happened a year later. I won’t bore you with the details, as the VCA already did that in a communication last fall that included many of the emails that went back and forth regarding formation of that new club. It had nothing to do with transparency as some were already on the VCA board of directors (Alex, Janni, etc.) and not only were they privy to how things operated, but it was they themselves that voted for things to operate that way – including pay rates for VIPER magazine, club administration, printing, etc. Funny how they fail to mention that as board members they were already in charge of the things they were accusing the club of doing. It is called “fiduciary responsibility” and you can look it up for yourself.

In 2013 that new board (including Maurice Liang) voted upon a set of rules regarding officer conduct and responsibility to the organization. The vote of the 2013 attending VCA board members was unanimously in favor of all but one clause, “the Marshall clause” whereby an officer could not profit from the VCA or Viper platform. Anybody want to guess who objected the most to that clause? Yep, Maurice Liang, who was already getting money from several other Viper and VCA-related “projects”. The irony was not lost on many.

So in the end the 2013 VCA board struck that clause – the same clause that so many people were demanding because those darn Marshalls were making money from the club when Chris was an officer. It made no difference that it was the VCA board that appointed them to their positions (unanimously and with no Marshall ever voting), it had to be outlawed according to many in that same group of complainers. Yet the new 2013 VCA board voted to allow it because the same people that complained about it before now stood to benefit from it themselves. It’s called “hypocrisy”.

But Maurice wasn’t done yet. Even after the new Conduct and Confidentiality was voted in unanimously by the board (Marshall clause removed), Maurice changed his own to strike the section regarding duty to the club, specifically this: “I understand that due to my position there is a required loyalty and responsibility to the club. It could be a breach of that trust to involve the manufacturer into internal items of club business or spin negative comments to them about club business.” So even though he himself voted in favor of it, he struck it from his own agreement. I suspect that any other company board would remove them immediately for violating their own vote. Like a congressman (or woman) going on record and voting for legislation then immediately violating that same vote – impeachment proceedings would probably start immediately. But Maurice still wasn’t done.

After the board meeting had ended and all that attended agreed on the Brobst suspension (unanimously), agreed on the Conduct and Confidentiality agreement (unanimously), and agreed to try and work things out with Ralph Gilles, Maurice wrote a note to Ralph which said, in part, ““I suspect nothing short of a wholesale cleansing of the entire board would turn this ship around overnight…” This, on January 23rd 2013 – only a few weeks since many, including himself, had even started to serve on the VCA board of directors. Again, imagine a board member in any other company writing to an outside company and recommending such a “cleansing”. They probably wouldn’t last 24 hours.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 02:43 PM   #4
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Clearly, you still don't get it.

The whole debacle was LESS about Jon B and FAR more about a very select group going to any means necessary to secure power and keep power (at the expense of the membership).

As pathetic as that club is today, it is WAY better off now than it was before the mass exodus.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 02:47 PM   #5
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Dude, let it go..... YOU LOST!

I'm not spending another minute proving you wrong. I already have to many times.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 02:51 PM   #6
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i seriously dont have the time or care to hear what you have to say, when people asked you direct questions, you refused to answer, and now this?


go. away.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 02:52 PM   #7
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Randall Arnold, the VCA’s Vice President, then wrote, “I'm begging you to please get the facts out to the media and the whole membership of the VCA. We owe it to them. We owe it to ourselves.” In that same email he also wrote, “If not, just give the VCA/VPA keys to Ralph, JonB and the rest of the lost boys and lets call it a day.” Randall was strongly in favor of “outing” Ralph’s behavior to the media, including the Gay/Lesbian community of which he is part. He wrote, “Don't be afraid of the LGBT community. Whether you agree or disagree with all the politics, we are a very powerful group. There are more LGBT members in the VCA and employed at Chrysler (SRT) than you think.” He added, “I'm sure Chrysler will not be too happy with Ralph being associated with the Viper Garage and Viper Alley people.

Oh, and before you ask why Randall “turned” and joined the dissenters, the explanation is simple: He was upset that the VCA put the printing out to bid for VIPER magazine (as many demanded as part of that transparency) and Wilson Printing came in the highest and lost the job. Tim Wilson is also gay and once dated Randall Arnold. Care to guess who VOA immediately announced as their printer and club admin of choice? Yep, Wilson Printing. Ask Tony at The Printing Place (a SoCal Viper owner) if he was even asked for a bid. And ask Randall if Wilson Printing even prints the magazine - or if they outsource it to another company. And you guys really thought you were voting for a change…

Oh, and Randall was also pissed that he got “caught” selling custom shirts (originally designed by Maurice as a gift to Ralph) that clearly violated Chrysler licensing. I politely pulled the post and told Randall it should be run by Chrysler legal first. They promptly ordered that those shirts be destroyed and questioned why the VCA even had to consult them as the violation was so obvious. While I only wrote to Randall, Terry, and their treasurer to let them know it was sidelined until Chrysler ruled on it, Randall went after me with a vengeance, copying many others. He even wrote, “One person on this email chain told me that the only reason it got pulled was because I thought of making the t-shirts first. I believe that now.” Interesting that Chrysler’s lead trademark attorney personally wrote and ordered them destroyed – it had nothing to do with who thought of it first (and that was Maurice Liang). As a VCA board member, shouldn’t Randall have been placing the club first ahead of his own gain? Again, fiduciary responsibility of a board member. So Randall “quit” the club yet again after that. As for the T-shirt, here is one of the two versions (the other was “Superman” blue with red/yellow logo):


If you have been an officer in the VCA, regional or otherwise, you know that the VCA must be a large part of that logo along with the regional name. Can't see it? Here you go, try this one:


Then the proverbial crap hit the fan and it shouldn’t have come as any surprise. Remember that Amazon example? Any customer has a right to complain to Amazon about treatment he was getting from an Amazon employee. Does ANYBODY disagree with that? Has anybody here never made one single complaint as a customer at a restaurant, hotel, supplier, etc.? Assuming most, if not all have made complaints as customers, why would anyone object to a Chrysler customer complaining to Chrysler management about the treatment they and their friends were receiving from a Chrysler employee? Especially if those many customers had repeatedly tried to appease that employee by fulfilling just about every request except overturning one single fully-supported board decision?

So people started writing to Sergio Marchionne to ask for help regarding the increasing pressure Ralph Gilles was putting on the club on behalf of Jon Brobst. After all, Ralph had asked for transparency and he got it. Ralph asked for more financial oversight and he got it. Ralph asked for a magazine oversight committee to be appointed and he got that – his friend Maurice Liang was even named the Chair of that committee despite Maurice’s continued violations of the very VCA bylaws he was elected to uphold. Ralph asked for somebody from Chrysler to be part of the VCA board meetings – he eventually got that too. He wanted the VPA board of directors to be expanded, which it immediately was. The one thing Ralph didn’t get was Jon Brobst reinstated. And for that the club would eventually pay the ultimate price.

Now, read this very carefully as it is critical that you understand it: During my lengthy call with Ralph Gilles on May 21, 2013 I told him, “You are going to have to do a better job of establishing what these actual problems are that you have with the club because you have insinuated that there’s ‘funny business’ - you don’t like some of the things you see. You have to explain - what are those things? You have to identify those so they can fix them because they don’t know what they are.” His reply? “It’s very simple – I don’t even know, I just, I’m tired of people insinuating them to me.

So here was the CEO of SRT saying that he couldn’t identify any specific problems, yet he continued to pressure the club, including pulling the links to VCA off the DriveSRT site. Among his comments about that he said, “I admit to that – I was completely pissed.” He added, “It was a lot of emotion, it was a mistake.” Sorry, but as a responsible businessperson I would immediately identify those problems and determine if they actually existed – especially if I was going to penalize one of my most important customer groups as a result of “insinuations” made by a very small group with their own agenda.

It was obvious that it was personal with Ralph and the VCA – not a business issue. On that call I said, “I just want things to be fair, I want things to be truthful – I want the club to succeed and to continue representing and helping Chrysler sell more cars. That’s where I see all of this has gone painfully awry and largely, quite frankly, because you have taken a lot of this personally, either with Brobst or Lee not responding to you. I think that’s hurt the club…” To this Ralph replied “Honestly, it didn’t start off being personal – matter of fact it wasn’t supposed to be.

As for selling more cars, I pointed out that some people were unhappy with how they couldn’t get their ordered cars (Spring of 2013) and that SRT wasn’t communicating with them as efficiently as they could. I told him that the VCA was trying to serve as a go-between in order to keep those new Viper buyers, many who were new to Chrysler altogether, happy. He replied, “You know what, if they cancel orders because of they can’t get a car, oh well – they’re a bunch of big babies, because it’s a fuckin’ miracle that the car like this exists in this day and age. And we’ll find other people to buy ‘em.

After Ralph pulled the links to the VCA site off of the DriveSRT site in April of 2013, Randall wrote, “If we don't have someone leak the story to the press, we are fools! If we let Ralph get the story out first, we lose. Jim Stout told me, ‘no one knows what is going on, you need to get your (our) side of the story out to the members’.It was Marv and myself that discouraged the club from going to the press – a fact easily verified by Chrysler’s Business Practices office as they were copied as things continued to develop. We had every hope that Ralph would finally understand that it made no business sense to penalize his most loyal car club that had done absolutely nothing wrong – it simply suspended a problematic member (and his personal friend) for bad behavior as it would have for anybody else who did something similar.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 02:57 PM   #8
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Whose mentioned in this letter?

https://www.viperalley.com/forum/vipe...ica-viper.html

Who wrote this letter?

https://www.viperalley.com/forum/vipe...ica-viper.html

/end thread
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Old May 24th, 2014, 02:57 PM   #9
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Well apparently one of the things that came to light during Chrysler’s follow up was the fact that Ralph (and his wife Doris) had been receiving many items from people, some of which appeared to violate Chrysler’s own policies. According to Chrysler’s published Integrity Code (http://www.chryslergroupllc.com/comp...ity%20Code.pdf, under conflict of interest issues), “Employees and their families should never solicit gifts or accept other personal benefits from Chrysler suppliers, dealers or other customers. Promotional material and other items of value up to $30 or less may be accepted if made voluntarily and there is no reasonable likelihood the gifts will influence an employee’s judgment or actions in performing his or her duties. Gifts above this value should not be accepted and the giver should be advised of the Chrysler policy.

Among those people that gave such items to the Gilles were Alex Ristanovic, Maurice Liang, Jon Brobst, and Janni Cone. Oh yeah, and me too: I presented Ralph with a $1000 wall sculpture on behalf of the VCA as a belated gift for his 40th birthday – it was presented at an Ohio event. On that call of May 21st, Ralph said, “It really is, you know, normal, you know, stuff that people give you when you do things. There is no actual value to me of that stuff. It’s personal.” Does Chrysler policy mention that exception? In a 2013 email to the club officers Ralph mentioned he had recently repaid the Illinois club for the 60” plasma TV, also asking that all of this be kept out of the media.

Another question: Did those items influence Ralph’s judgment or actions? I don’t know and don’t really care. I do know that many that provided such gifts often enjoyed benefits others did not such as personal visits from Ralph, a private audience with Jay Leno, trip(s) to Europe, pace car drives, a purported six-figure book contract, oversight on a large WPC Museum project that gathered tens of thousands of dollars from Viper owners (Ralph was Chair of the museum foundation board), access to Chelsea Proving Ground, etc.

There was also Ralph’s apparent willingness to defend one of those friends even if it cost him the loyalty of 3000+ Viper owners. That is, of course, unless those owners could be moved to a different club run by more of his friends – one of those friends being Maurice Liang.

Ask Steve Ferguson and/or Herb Helbig about when Maurice was banned from Chrysler headquarters. Then ask Herb about when Maurice caused the VCA to be removed from the Arizona Proving Grounds – not to return for several years. Ask Roy Sjoberg what he meant when he asked Maurice, in front the gathered regional presidents at an annual meeting in Scottsdale, “Hey Maurice – steal anything lately?” Ask Maurice for the accounting of all the donations he received from Viper owners for the Viper Café – and if he knew that the Chrysler museum was going to close not long after that. Ask Maurice how much he was paid by SRT for his book and how many copies have been sold outside of new Viper buyers that got one included with their purchase. Ask Maurice how much the 2011 trip to Germany cost for he and his male friend and who paid the tab, including his rental Lotus. Ask Maurice why he didn’t contribute to VIPER magazine, even as Chair of its oversight committee (hint – no free ads for his merchandise). Check with the Northern California club to see when they claimed the income for the custom Viper calendars Maurice advertised or for the Viper floor mats they have been carrying for so long. Ask them (or Maurice) for the Chrysler licensing agreement for those same mats – the ones that currently advertise a car that Chrysler never even made, the SRT-10 with the Stryker logo:


Hard to imagine any Chrysler trademark attorney approving such a combination, so did they?
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:09 PM   #10
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And then ask yourself the $60,000 question: Why is it that after the Marshalls left, select officers from the VOA continued to slam the VCA? Has VPA revenue gone up and have their payroll costs gone down as a percentage of that revenue since that departure? How is the all-important Viper tooling doing these days? After all, it was the envy of every other car club out there. Think the Shelby Club wouldn’t kill to have the original body molds for the Cobra? Has the VCA management cost per member gone down since Coast to Coast departed (at the VCA’s direction after Chrysler’s letter and Jalopnik’s article)? Has anybody actually checked US raffle laws to see if ANY of them are “legal”, including VOA’s upcoming giveaway? Ask the VOA if they are buying the “giveaway” Viper and if any portion of the “event fee” is going towards payment of that car. Perhaps some VOA members will file “illegal raffle” claims on their $500 event entry fee if they don’t win the car – just as some encouraged them to do in the last VCA raffle. You may not win that contest with your credit card provider, but some may try just for a “free” entry into the VOA drawing. You can thank a few select people (the usual suspects) for that little trick.

Make no mistake, this has never been about the Marshalls. Dan Everts is the current president of the VCA and also a board member of the VPA. How is that different from the Marshalls doing the same thing, as appointed by the VCA board of directors (Janni Cone, Jim Johnson, etc.)? Perhaps it was that the Marshalls were being paid for their work: actually managing club memberships, producing VIPER magazine, and working the club’s parts business on a day-to-day basis. Maybe Chrysler didn’t read the transparency document and thus didn’t realize that a paid, for-profit company (JRT) was “running” the non-profit VCA for over a decade – including processing 100% of Chrysler COOL membership monies with no accounting provided to the VCA for the exact amounts received from Chrysler. JRT was directly affiliated with Competition Graphics, another for-profit company that sold merchandise on behalf of a non-profit club (the VCA) and also contracted directly with Chrysler/SRT. The VCA board knew all about this, yet why have they remained silent, including those board members that “defected” to Maurice and Randall’s new club?

As for the elephant in the room, why don’t you ask Jon Brobst some of these questions: Has he/PartsRack ever falsified US customs documents in order to save international buyers on duties and taxes? Has he/PartsRack ever created or offered to create a false receipt for a customer insurance claim? Has he/PartsRack ever “cloned” a factory/Mopar part for the Viper in order to sell it for less? Has he/PartsRack ever contacted other people’s employers when they caused him grief? If you are impatient you can search the web for these answers, often in Jon’s own words.

Or you can ask Ralph Gilles, who said these things specifically about Jon on my call with him: “JonB is never going to stop. As a matter of fact it’s just going to get worse, and worse, and worse.” “He’s noise in the system, he’s gone beyond rationality now, he’s incensed, he’s enraged – whatever it is I don’t understand it.” “One meeting with him in Chicago and he could go repeat what I said and twist it around. I have no idea if he is saying the truth or what.

And one other thing Ralph said about Jon on that call? “I told him you have to grow up and stop desecrating, you know, having a fight with Mr. Marshall and posting things. You gotta stop. Be quiet, just stop.” Needless to say, that advice wasn’t followed (see Jalopnik) and the results speak for themselves.

It would have been painfully easy for me to point out these truths but I took the high road even as I was being lynched here and elsewhere for things I didn’t even do. I could have probably derailed Janni Cone’s bid for VCA presidency simply by sharing one of her written comments to me barely a year earlier: “My work is crazy and I have to tell you - I need to resign. I didn't want to run (and really didn't) for this last reelection - not sure how I got signed up. As much as i love the club - I am not even close to doing this role justice and it's not fair to the people who are doing so. I like being part of the in crown - but don't deserve it.” But I said nothing, only sharing that with Marv - and neither of us said a word.

The irony of all of this is that it rallies around the original concept of Viper Alley and yet nobody seems to have noticed it: The Windbreakers, the “in crowd” – those who control things for their own personal gain, including their access to senior Chrysler people so that they can enjoy that unique relationship while the rest of the Viper community can only watch from the sidelines. They got what they wanted yet are still trying to get more. Maybe it’s time you start asking more questions, only this time why don’t you get the actual facts – just as Ralph should have done and thereby possibly avoided all of this.

Oh, and one final note: The failure of the Viper to sell isn’t necessarily due to price, media reviews, poor marketing, etc., but more likely due to the collapse of the Viper Nation as we know it. I suspect all of this is embarrassing for more than a few Viper owners out there. And probably fatal to prospective purchasers that didn’t want to be associated with such nonsense. While I am embarrassed at the way the VCA handled this despite knowing all the facts, I will give them credit for generally trying to take the high road and avoid offending prospective Viper purchasers. They apologized to Ralph for no particular reason, reinstated Brobst despite his failure to fulfill the simple terms of his suspension, and threw some of us under the bus in an attempt to win back members. From what I understand, the combined membership for both the VCA and VOA isn’t even close to what it was under the VCA when the “evil doers” were running it at the direction of the VCA board – some of which now run the VOA.

While Viper Alley has a long history of challenging the status quo, it never tried to start a rival club or pit one owner against the other. Owned by Autoguide / VerticalScope, Inc., it is surprising that Viper Alley would allow some of these false accusations (and outright slander) to “dirty” their portfolio – much less “stick” them at the top of their discussion forums. From a 2012 press release: “Established in 1999, VerticalScope Inc. owns and operates more than 300 consumer shopping portals and enthusiast Web sites serving the automotive, RV, powersports, tractor, outdoor power equipment, sports and pet owner vertical markets with top brands such as AutoGuide.com, RVGuide.com, Tractor.com, Motorcycle.com, ATV.com, PersonalWatercraft.com and Snowmobile.com.” It might also explain why Jalopnik published a reckless article with little or no actual research – an article that launched the nuke that largely decimated the Viper Nation. And all of this largely tracing back to one single car club member that got caught going after another member and was suspended for it. Great fires start with a spark – just ask the City of Chicago.

As for me, we sold our Viper in November but still have the honor of babysitting another. Ironically enough, our beloved Viper was sold exactly 14 years to the day from when we picked up our first Viper at CAAP in 1999. We are very, very proud of the work we did for the VCA and its members, as well as all we did for Chrysler. We helped increase membership and saved the club considerable money in the process. We built the club’s for-profit parts business into a very strong company with a sterling reputation for service – one in which I never had so much as a single share, only sweat equity.

We created an award-winning magazine (nine such awards at last count) even when the club couldn’t afford to print and mail them on time. We gave up some $70,000 in income to provide free advertising to Chrysler (Mopar and SRT specifically), with Ralph writing to me after the call, “He (Steve Sharples) confirmed that we do not pay for them. An old habit from JRT days...” He then added, “The adds [sic] have some value and we should look at a legitimate contract going forward as the ads do imply some sort of endorsement. Wouldn't want to be accused of taking "free" stuff from the club in the future.” I don’t believe that Chrysler ever paid a penny for those ads and certainly not to Coast to Coast Management.

When Chrysler’s Business Practices Office asked Doris Gilles to withdraw her company’s $50,000 bid to manage VOI 11 we stepped up and did that one for free. Even at $50,000 it was a bargain, as a previous VOI budget from JRT showed event management at $150,000. We cut the total budget for the VOI’s from over $2.5 million to a little over a third of that, helping Chrysler in the process – both financially and for positive press: http://media.chrysler.com/newsreleas...=10092&mid=311 Ask anybody who attended what they thought of those two VOI’s (Salt Lake City & Charlotte). Then check the club financials and see what the bottom line was for both of them.

Anyway, this is getting to be a novel and that needs to wait for another day. I have no plans to come back here anytime soon – if ever. For those that value the truth, start verifying facts instead of regurgitating somebody else’s BS over and over and over again. You will find it is quite liberating.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:09 PM   #11
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he needs to post more, so i can keep giving him negative rep.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:10 PM   #12
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Now, read this very carefully as it is critical that you understand it: During my lengthy call with Ralph Gilles on May 21, 2013 I told him, You are going to have to do a better job of establishing what these actual problems are that you have with the club because you have insinuated that there’s ‘funny business’ - you don’t like some of the things you see. You have to explain - what are those things? You have to identify those so they can fix them because they don’t know what they are.” His reply? “It’s very simple – I don’t even know, I just, I’m tired of people insinuating them to me.

So here was the CEO of SRT saying that he couldn’t identify any specific problems, yet he continued to pressure the club, including pulling the links to VCA off the DriveSRT site. Among his comments about that he said, “I admit to that – I was completely pissed.” He added, “It was a lot of emotion, it was a mistake.” Sorry, but as a responsible businessperson I would immediately identify those problems and determine if they actually existed – especially if I was going to penalize one of my most important customer groups as a result of “insinuations” made by a very small group with their own agenda.

It was obvious that it was personal with Ralph and the VCA – not a business issue. On that call I said, “I just want things to be fair, I want things to be truthful – I want the club to succeed and to continue representing and helping Chrysler sell more cars. That’s where I see all of this has gone painfully awry and largely, quite frankly, because you have taken a lot of this personally, either with Brobst or Lee not responding to you. I think that’s hurt the club…” To this Ralph replied “Honestly, it didn’t start off being personal – matter of fact it wasn’t supposed to be.

As for selling more cars, I pointed out that some people were unhappy with how they couldn’t get their ordered cars (Spring of 2013) and that SRT wasn’t communicating with them as efficiently as they could. I told him that the VCA was trying to serve as a go-between in order to keep those new Viper buyers, many who were new to Chrysler altogether, happy. He replied, “You know what, if they cancel orders because of they can’t get a car, oh well – they’re a bunch of big babies, because it’s a fuckin’ miracle that the car like this exists in this day and age. And we’ll find other people to buy ‘em.

After Ralph pulled the links to the VCA site off of the DriveSRT site in April of 2013, Randall wrote, “If we don't have someone leak the story to the press, we are fools! If we let Ralph get the story out first, we lose. Jim Stout told me, ‘no one knows what is going on, you need to get your (our) side of the story out to the members’.It was Marv and myself that discouraged the club from going to the press – a fact easily verified by Chrysler’s Business Practices office as they were copied as things continued to develop. We had every hope that Ralph would finally understand that it made no business sense to penalize his most loyal car club that had done absolutely nothing wrong – it simply suspended a problematic member (and his personal friend) for bad behavior as it would have for anybody else who did something similar.
So you were representing the VCA in calls to Ralph when you were supposed to be running the VPA and supposed to NOT be involved in VCA business? Think about that one...........................
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:15 PM   #13
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So you were representing the VCA in calls to Ralph when you were supposed to be running the VPA and supposed to NOT be involved in VCA business? Think about that one...........................
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:16 PM   #14
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The whole debacle was LESS about Jon B and FAR more about a very select group going to any means necessary to secure power and keep power (at the expense of the membership).
Truer words have never been spoken. So tell me, who now has that power? Seriously, I know some of you are smart enough to really dissect this instead of some sort of dog pile on another's steaming pile of self-serving BS.

Oh yeah, and I am not going to be reading replies in all likelihood but wanted to make sure this was posted in its entirety - and saved for future reference in the event it disappears. Enjoy your pile.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:18 PM   #15
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Red Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 pointsRed Snake is not afraid of bears with 117898 points
Rep Power: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas View Post
Truer words have never been spoken. So tell me, who now has that power? Seriously, I know some of you are smart enough to really dissect this instead of some sort of dog pile on another's steaming pile of self-serving BS.

Oh yeah, and I am not going to be reading replies in all likelihood but wanted to make sure this was posted in its entirety - and saved for future reference in the event it disappears. Enjoy your pile.
Not you, and thats a very good thing for the VCA.


Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:19 PM   #16
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Kansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 points
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoparBoyy View Post
i seriously dont have the time or care to hear what you have to say, when people asked you direct questions, you refused to answer, and now this?


go. away.
That seems to be the solution of choice for those that don't like what they read. Please send me the communication you sent to me with those direct questions. *crickets* I don't read the forums anymore - I stopped after select idiots accused me of moderating when I hadn't moderated a thing since Randall's T-shirt sideline.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:22 PM   #17
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Kansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 pointsKansas is not afraid of bears with 8800 points
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTGTS View Post
By all means, please feel free to contact Chrysler directly and ask them how they feel about that letter now. Hell, ask them how they felt about that letter 24 hours after it was shared with their Business Practices Office. It sure made them look good with Jalopnik.

Nice try.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:23 PM   #18
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MoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 pointsMoparBoyy is not afraid of bears with 4139 points
Rep Power: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas View Post
That seems to be the solution of choice for those that don't like what they read. Please send me the communication you sent to me with those direct questions. *crickets* I don't read the forums anymore - I stopped after select idiots accused me of moderating when I hadn't moderated a thing since Randall's T-shirt sideline.
well as my VCA account was locked and I was banned for 'asking questions' I can't forward all those to you.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #19
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O and there is this thread...

https://www.viperalley.com/forum/anyt...arts-rack.html
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoparBoyy View Post
he needs to post more, so i can keep giving him negative rep.
Here is another post for you big fella. I sure hope it doesn't affect my ability to trade in valuable VA points for something fun!
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