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Raffle update

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Raffle update
Old September 13th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #1
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Raffle update

It was unlicensed and illegal. It was drawn by LEE in an undetermined location that even the BOD don't know. The BOD spent 10K on legal at the last minute to find if it could be made legal at the last minute. They were informed it couldn't and allowed it to go ahead as they needed the money for regional payments. Their legal council then stepped down. Michigan gaming has launched an investigation (not my doing) and is collecting the names of Michigan residents who bought tickets to help their investigation. PM me for his contact info, if you like. Criminal charges are quite possible. Other states may have been contacted. I doubt prizes can be kept in an illegal raffle.

Directors' insurance doesn't cover known illegal acts. They are blowing naked in the breeze on this.

It is possible that interstate car raffles are illegal regardless. Registering in one state does not appear to allow sales across the U.S. All car clubs interstate raffles, profitable as they are, are probably not legal.

They did not license through the Motor City club, because MC wanted to hold the money, pay for the car, then send VCA the balance. Those MC scoundrels!! That sounds......prudent.

I have the smoking gun. Seriously.

They have stopped my posts, sorry put me in moderation, at VCA. As a result I will get more aggressive. It's about the cars and the people, not profit and power.

Continue to come here for all your VCA updates. All the news that they don't deem you fit to hear. You are not a director and can't comprehend such lofty ideas.
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Last edited by sundiego; September 13th, 2013 at 02:42 PM.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #2
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I feel bad for whoever won the car in the end. Not their doing and they are just an innocent bystander. Sad really.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #3
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"The BOD spent 10K on legal at the last minute to find if it could be made legal at the last minute. They were informed it couldn't and allowed it to go ahead as they needed the money for regional payments."

If that's true, every member of that BOD involved in that decision is in serious trouble. Regardless of any good motivations behind the decision.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #4
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Sounds like the BOD tried to stop it and Lee just did it anyway. Can't hold them liable. Really glad I didn't buy in on this. Of course I'm kicking myself for even becoming a member after all that has surfaced.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #5
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The BOD did not try and stop it.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundiego View Post
It was drawn by LEE in an undetermined location that even the BOD don't know
Only going off what you had posted.

I retract my statement and say let them burn for it as well.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #7
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA_SRT View Post
Sounds like the BOD tried to stop it and Lee just did it anyway. Can't hold them liable.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I am not an attorney, but I can tell you that a Board has real legal responsibilities. One of them is to make sure the organization has adequate controls. Directors who are just (perhaps literally) phoning in their responsibilities without ever questioning how things really work may be in for a very rude surprise. I recommend they go look up two things: "Fiduciary Duty" and "Piercing the Corporate Veil"

"Lee just did it by himself" is almost as damning as "we did it".

One of the things I always focus on for the Boards I join is the auditor's report of internal control systems. Not just the financials, the actual process and procedures which the auditors will review and make comments/recommendations in areas where controls may be inadequate. I make sure that the organizations I'm associated with get a 100% clean sheet of health every year. And I make sure that the Board gets a physical, in-person, presentation from the actual damn auditors themselves so we know for sure that the audit really happened (well, or at least we get to see several people who claim to work for E&Y) and that we aren't just getting a fictional document the President wrote the night before (which has happened in the history of non-profits).

It sounds like some of those board members might not even know how to spell audit, let alone Fiduciary. Good luck gentlemen.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #9
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundiego View Post

Continue to come here for all your VCA updates. All the news that they don't deem you fit to hear. You are not a director and can't comprehend such lofty ideas.
THAT speaks volumes.....
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #11
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So for those of us who are, for lack of a better term, stupid, is the issue with the gaming board going to be that adequate controls were not in place to ensure that the raffle was fairly maintained and drawn?
Is this the same reason I can't start a roulette parlor in my basement?
S.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:59 PM   #12
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It was illegal gaming. A Michigan company sold raffle tickets to Michigan residents and operated a raffle without a license. The feds are yet to join the party, but probably will.

Actually a roulette parlor wouldn't involve interstate gambling. It would be like doing a video feed and taking bets across the country.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
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So for those of us who are, for lack of a better term, stupid, is the issue with the gaming board going to be that adequate controls were not in place to ensure that the raffle was fairly maintained and drawn?
Is this the same reason I can't start a roulette parlor in my basement?
S.
Two things.

When your legal representation bales out, watch out.....nothing good happens from that point on.

MVCO use to do the raffles and were audited by the State. I'm paraphrasing now, but you can look up the post where the MVCO poster said this. The MVCO was asked not to sell tickets in groups for a discount,....$125.00 each or 3 for $300.00. The State was concerned that somebody could claim all the tickets were sold in groups of three and allowing $75.00 to be pocketed for each three tickets sold at $125.00 (not a bad scheme for somebody with weak ethics). MVCO was willing to make the changes, etc but the BOD decided to tell them to pound sand and did it on their own to save money, and or maybe "make" a little extra money. I did not realize that "raffles" of this size were considered gaming and the rules and regulations are very strict, etc. Also, for a raffle such as this, I think the only way to do it not in a licensed casino is by a non profit which is how we were able to get away with it for years.

Cheers,
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Old September 13th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #14
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I'd really like to know, if the tickets were mailed from KS. The raffle was supposed to be held in NE, and apparently Lee pulled the "winning tickets" in MD

How did the tickets manage to get to Maryland?
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Old September 13th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #15
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Old September 13th, 2013, 06:03 PM   #16
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when HR speaks we ALL should listen
Maybe, but sundiego's "accessories" comment said everything I did, more cleverly and succinctly.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #17
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George, there also needs to be a distinction made between non profit and charity. Most of the states that I looked at either didn't allow it, or allowed it for a charity. VCA IS NOT A CHARITY. They do not consider the enjoyment of high powered expensive sports cars a charity. They do not extend the same rights to a non profit as a charity. Showing a dejected man standing by his Viper moaning he can't afford to go to VOI unless we help is not an inspiration to give.

The drawing across state lines for a non profit appears to be illegal no matter what. Charity, OK.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollercaust View Post
I'd really like to know, if the tickets were mailed from KS. The raffle was supposed to be held in NE, and apparently Lee pulled the "winning tickets" in MD

How did the tickets manage to get to Maryland?
Lee probably went to the dollar store and made up his own tickets
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Old September 14th, 2013, 09:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plumcrazy View Post
when HR speaks we ALL should listen
That can be highly dependent on time, place, and circumstance.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 10:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollercaust View Post
I'd really like to know, if the tickets were mailed from KS. The raffle was supposed to be held in NE, and apparently Lee pulled the "winning tickets" in MD

How did the tickets manage to get to Maryland?
Didn't you know, this was a magic raffle. The tickets were imaginary and the prize was the fun of playing!
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