I would think that even your CC company had rules about refunding money paid for raffle tickets, if you called and told them that you were questioning the legality of said raffle, and that there was possible fraud and/or improper procedures, they WOULD look into it. I know AMEX would if I called.
At the very least, if you get CC companies demanding to know all of the information the VCA won't release to the members, or they won't pay, they will actually get some answers.
Viper Girl covered this. They don't do refunds on raffles, or everyone who lost would do it.
IF a State AG office said the raffle was illegal after an investigation. The Card companies would likely comply with a refund. ie the card holder was scammed.
IF you are asking the card companies to declare the raffle illegal. It is highly doubtful they would, without some law enforcement agency investigation saying the contest was illegal.
In the end what happens the card issurer processes the refund. The merchant account is debited. If there are no funds for the reversals. The account $ is held until they can process the refund(s). Regions are likely to be the ones most hurt.
Viper girl. My funds which where given to the VCA for raffle tickets have been put on suspend from A/X. I never received or my wife any raffle tickets I purchased. I was kind enough to ask the VCA to post my raffle numbers on there site, still nothing . There where no tickets in the barrel that I purchased . If there where they would have had the numbers posted up for everyone to see and I would have had them in my hands. It's not about the 300 dollars it's about the fact that I had a chance Like everyone else to win the car. Unfortunately this bullshit drama happened to the VCA and everyone got fucked over for the clowns that run the place
Viper girl. My funds which where given to the VCA for raffle tickets have been put on suspend from A/X. I never received or my wife any raffle tickets I purchased. I was kind enough to ask the VCA to post my raffle numbers on there site, still nothing . There where no tickets in the barrel that I purchased . If there where they would have had the numbers posted up for everyone to see and I would have had them in my hands. It's not about the 300 dollars it's about the fact that I had a chance Like everyone else to win the car. Unfortunately this bullshit drama happened to the VCA and everyone got fucked over for the clowns that run the place
I think you should definitely get a refund... You have proof that you weren't included in the raffle and didn't get tix...
the rest of my text is about whether the raffle was legal and asking the card companies to make a determination of said raffle.
Yeah def card companies will not look into that part . That's where the law comes into play.im guessing sometimes in the near future they will get a knock on there door and the investigation will begin... Who knows what's going on at this point. Just seems chaotic and everyone is on the hush hush
In the end what happens the card issurer processes the refund. The merchant account is debited. If there are no funds for the reversals. The account $ is held until they can process the refund(s). Regions are likely to be the ones most hurt.
If the VCA doesn't have $$ in their merchant account, the card issuing bank will still give the refund to the cardholder, and will try to collect from the merchant (I think that's what you were saying anyway). So even if the VCA has nothing in the merchant account, if Amex decides to agree to the chargeback, YoT will get his $$$.
I would be curious to see what is in writing between national and the regions? JonB said in another thread that the regions should send demand notices to national. I think he is right about that. National seems to treat it as money they will give to the regions whenever they feel like it. But it seems that the regions are entitled to that $$$, and National is being extremely unethical in withholding it.
If that's true, then national still owes the money regardless of what happens with chargebacks. If they robbed peter to pay paul - i.e. took member dues and spent them wholly without remitting the regions' portion, then I wonder if the law needs to get involved.
Yeah def card companies will not look into that part . That's where the law comes into play.im guessing sometimes in the near future they will get a knock on there door and the investigation will begin... Who knows what's going on at this point. Just seems chaotic and everyone is on the hush hush
The credit card companies do about 1 millionth of the investigations people expect them to
Amex will put a hold on VCA's merchant account for the $300, then they will send them a notice of chargeback and some forms to fill out, which don't really ask their side of the story, they really just want proof that the merchandise was delivered or the service was rendered.
Since they probably have no tracking number, I bet you get your refund. It might be different for a raffle where there was technically a product (tickets) and a service (entry into the raffle).
If Amex comes back and tells you that they can't refund you, then I would get something from the Maryland gaming commission (if they have one?) or something that proves it wasn't legal. Then as said above it's not just "I didn't get what I paid for" but a more serious "I was scammed". I'd also contact law enforcement and, hell, file a mail fraud complaint too since the illegal raffle was prosecuted by mail.
I used the word prosecuted on purpose - a little double entendre
If the VCA doesn't have $$ in their merchant account, the card issuing bank will still give the refund to the cardholder, and will try to collect from the merchant (I think that's what you were saying anyway). So even if the VCA has nothing in the merchant account, if Amex decides to agree to the chargeback, YoT will get his $$$.
I thnk YoT won't have any problem getting his $$$ back. He has it in writing that he was not entered into the raffle.
In all cases during the investigative phase cardholders will be credited the amount from the card issuer. If the merchant has some level of proof the charge was valid. Then the cardholder may see their account debited in the future.
If there is no proof of sale from the merchant, the card issuing bank will attempt to collect funds from the merchant.
Your raffle ticket numbers were numbers 471,472,&473.
Thanks for your patience,
The VCA Staff
This is what they just sent me.. It's ok ... I won't ever enter a raffle again .. Lost 300 but I learned my lesson ...all I have proof is Viper Tony.. Prior to drawings I sent him an email saying I never received raffle tickets as of yet . It was a few weeks before raffle was being drawn. Tony told me two batches will be released. One was the earlier batch I never received and one batch of tickets coming out in Aug18 if I'm correct on the date. I was thinking Aug18 I would receive . We nothing in my hands but the VCA membership .. Thanks for trying Tony appreciate the help . Tony has been trying to get me the mail date . Unfortunately with the BS that's going on there I doubt he will get it
Last edited by BADVENOM; September 13th, 2013 at 11:11 AM.
Your raffle ticket numbers were numbers 471,472,&473.
Thanks for your patience,
The VCA Staff
This is what they just sent me.. It's ok ... I won't ever enter a raffle again .. Lost 300 but I learned my lesson ...all I have proof is Viper Tony.. Prior to drawings I sent him an email saying I never received raffle tickets as of yet . It was a few weeks before raffle was being drawn. Tony told me two batches will be released. One was the earlier batch I never received and one batch of tickets coming out in Aug18 if I'm correct on the date. I was thinking Aug18 I would receive . We nothing in my hands but the VCA membership .. Thanks for trying Tony appreciate the help . Tony has been trying to get me the mail date . Unfortunately with the BS that's going on there I doubt he will get it
The problem with that is if they don't send you the tickets before hand, you have NO way to know whether you were actually in the raffle or not.
That's why the laws are so strict on this kind of stuff. It would be easy to sell 1,000 tickets, pick a winner, and if anyone complains they didn't get their tickets, just add them later.
If you don't actually get the tickets, you are taking them at their word that your tickets were in the barrel and "winnable".
The problem with that is if they don't send you the tickets before hand, you have NO way to know whether you were actually in the raffle or not.
That's why the laws are so strict on this kind of stuff. It would be easy to sell 1,000 tickets, pick a winner, and if anyone complains they didn't get their tickets, just add them later.
If you don't actually get the tickets, you are taking them at their word that your tickets were in the barrel and "winnable".
LOL! Nothing proves anything. If you are paranoid and convinced "they" are out to get you, then having your tickets in hand means absolutely nothing. All this hyperventilating over not having tickets in hand will not convince Tony that his tickets were ever put in the barrel even if he gets a verification back that his tickets were issued. If someone pulls them from the barrel, he will just say that they were put in the barrel after the fact. The situation provides excellent entertainment value, though.
LOL! Nothing proves anything. If you are paranoid and convinced "they" are out to get you, then having your tickets in hand means absolutely nothing. All this hyperventilating over not having tickets in hand will not convince Tony that his tickets were ever put in the barrel even if he gets a verification back that his tickets were issued. If someone pulls them from the barrel, he will just say that they were put in the barrel after the fact. The situation provides excellent entertainment value, though.
And that is why there are very strict rules for raffles - such as, tickets must be delivered before the drawing, and rules that regulate where and how the drawing can take place, etc. All of that is designed to prevent exactly this type of thing.
You can dismiss Tony as paranoid and biased, however the fact is the raffle was illegal, and the VCA were told what they were doing (by the Michigan authorities) that was unacceptable, and rather than stop that behavior, they chose instead to continue that behavior and ditch the legality of the raffle.
It's also quite coincidental that a few years back the wife of the guy who is getting $5k a month to store the Viper parts won the raffle. What are the chances that one of the thousands of tickets sold, one of the good ol' boys wins? Pretty amazing coincidence, I'd say.
I think Tony has every reason to be skeptical. And the burden is and should be on the VCA to address the concerns of it's members, not the other way around.
My intention was not to be dismissive. There was some humorous intent involved. Perhaps because I am not one of the "in" crowd here, that was unwelcome. I can understand that. I know the rules.
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