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Hope you kept your raffle tickets

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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #61
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REALLY?

SOMEONE told them that Leaf's bro no longer owned a Viper and had not for quite some time. With the increased scrutiny on this raffle - anyone with 1/2 a brain would investigate. That someone was likely someone that knew he sold the car a while ago and wasn't supposed to be a member.

BECAUSE - raffle tix are for MEMBERS only. And every year when you renew you have to provide the VIN or a VON of a Viper you OWN or are buying. If you don't own the Viper VIN you put in - you are not being honest and you are not eligible to be a member.

If this went through and you guys found out (and it wasn't Leaf's bro) you'd be waving the Membership eligibility section of the bylaws and calling the raffle ILLEGAL (regardless of any other issues) and calling for blood.

So please - take a small step back and clear the fog of hatred. The membership process asks people to validate their eligibility every year - and since there's no reasonable way to check ownership daily - they have an expectation that people will be truthful.

This had to be investigated. Since Leaf said they worked with a lawyer, it seems it was pretty clear cut if its decided already...

Will this drive more raffle changes in the future - possibly. But the bottom line is that even if you asked ticket buyers "do you own a Viper today" - they could lie - which is essentially what Leaf's bro did when he renewed.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #62
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VCA can't even GIVE a car away correctly. pathetic
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:18 PM   #63
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So what you are all saying is that the VCA will be the first car club to be investigated on "60 Minutes"

Wouldn't be surprised if Sergio sent a couple of Sicilians over here to "clean up" the front office.

What a disaster!

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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #64
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Ok JT what about me???? I called 7 times today and got no resolution on what happened with my raffle tickets ...
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by JT View Post
REALLY?

SOMEONE told them that Leaf's bro no longer owned a Viper and had not for quite some time. With the increased scrutiny on this raffle - anyone with 1/2 a brain would investigate. That someone was likely someone that knew he sold the car a while ago and wasn't supposed to be a member.

BECAUSE - raffle tix are for MEMBERS only. And every year when you renew you have to provide the VIN or a VON of a Viper you OWN or are buying. If you don't own the Viper VIN you put in - you are not being honest and you are not eligible to be a member.

If this went through and you guys found out (and it wasn't Leaf's bro) you'd be waving the Membership eligibility section of the bylaws and calling the raffle ILLEGAL (regardless of any other issues) and calling for blood.

So please - take a small step back and clear the fog of hatred. The membership process asks people to validate their eligibility every year - and since there's no reasonable way to check ownership daily - they have an expectation that people will be truthful.

This had to be investigated. Since Leaf said they worked with a lawyer, it seems it was pretty clear cut if its decided already...

Will this drive more raffle changes in the future - possibly. But the bottom line is that even if you asked ticket buyers "do you own a Viper today" - they could lie - which is essentially what Leaf's bro did when he renewed.
Agreed. When a person enters a raffle or lottery they are attesting that they are eligible to enter, it's not the responsibility of the party holding the raffle to confirm that everyone buying a ticket is eligible to enter. Think of it this way, if a 16 year old kid buys a lottery ticket from the gas station with a fake ID saying he was 21 and he won a million dollar prize, when the state investigated his eligibility and find that he's really only 16 he wouldn't get the prize. And he wouldn't get the money back for the ticket he purchased either. In the case of the Viper raffle the winner used a "fake ID" to maintain membership in the club which is the requirement to purchase the ticket. It sucks for him, but he never should have purchased the ticket. And others like him should not get their money back either because they are in the same situation, they should not have purchased a ticket because they shouldn't even be in the club.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:40 PM   #66
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I totally agree with JT. I don't care if some VA guy's brother ignorantly renewed membership in the VCA when he did not own the Viper that he claimed he owned.

WTF did anyone expect the VCA to do. Go investigate every person that bought a ticket when they bought a ticket? The rules say that you have to be at least 21 to buy a ticket. Is there ANYONE here that bought a VCA raffle ticket at any time in the past XXX years that expected that they should have to show a birth certificate to purchase a ticket?

I feel for the guy who had the ticket that was drawn for first prize; but, too bad, so sad. Give him his ticket and membership money back and draw again. I just found my ticket in the trash; so, I'm ready to step in and save the day.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #67
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What if they haven't been verifying in previous raffles?
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by BADVENOM View Post
Ok JT what about me???? I called 7 times today and got no resolution on what happened with my raffle tickets ...
There's no excuse for someone not getting back to you.

I am rooting for the YoT ticket to be drawn.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #69
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What if they haven't been verifying in previous raffles?
Oh, I'm sure that a lawyer could twist this around so that an ineligible person gets to keep the Viper that I, as an eligible person, should have won.

If it was traffic court, I expect my argument that the cops never checked to see if I was speeding before on that road would fly with the judge. It should not be acceptable in this case either.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #70
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I think they should sell the Viper and buy everyone with a ticket a new Ipod. That way everyone wins. Have you guys not learned anything from Obama yet?
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #71
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I would be filing suit .
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:57 PM   #72
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What a train wreck...
Well, they decided to go w/sugar in the tank, so shit went down hill from there!!!!

IDIOTS!!!!



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Old September 6th, 2013, 05:02 PM   #73
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I think a retro- active change to the Bylaws is in order. If they could sneak thru the Venom membership; modify the investment policys in effect at the time, to allow the use of members money to establish the VCA, I don't think a little issue like a "non-member" winning the car in an illegal raffle will be a problem.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 05:06 PM   #74
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I canNOT believe I was at work today and missed this thread.


Holy fuck, what a shit show. Leaf, I hope your family's attorney brings that whole fucking club crashing to the ground.


Ask yourself.... What would Che do?
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Old September 6th, 2013, 05:09 PM   #75
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I'm filing suit already ... Someone took money without me knowing if they even put my tickets in the pick... I have nothing to show but only the VCA receipt that I paid for three tickets
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Old September 6th, 2013, 05:11 PM   #76
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This past Friday, August 30, 2013, the tickets were drawn for the prizes in the most recent VCA raffle. The names associated with the tickets that were drawn were as follows:

1. David Greenleaf Ticket #527

2. David Schaffer Ticket # 1508

3. Mark Edwards Ticket # 1858

4. Keith Sitton Ticket # 2309

Unfortunately, after the tickets were drawn, the VCA learned that Mr. Greenleaf was ineligible to participate in this raffle. He has been contacted about the reasons for his ineligibility, has acknowledged that the VCA’s position is correct, and has graciously agreed to not claim entitlement to the car under the circumstances. We applaud Mr. Greenleaf for his professionalism in this regard.

Accordingly, and although there is no rule or precedent for how to proceed under such circumstances, the VCA BOD has unanimously agreed that the second place winner, David Schaffer , should be moved into first position and receive the 2013 SRT Viper. Congratulations to Mr. Schaffer !!

Correspondingly, Mr. Edwards , will receive the second place prize, and Mr. Sitton , will be awarded the third place prize.
Finally, with only three winners for four prizes, the VCA BOD also unanimously decided to draw another name for the fourth place prize. That name was drawn, and the winner of the fourth place prize is Mr Steve Loudin Ticket # 465 .

Congratulations to all the winners!

Lee Stubberfield, VCA President




WHY IS LEE STILL MAKING PRESIDENTIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS???
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Old September 6th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #77
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It's not a call I would want to have to be making. I understand the example about the lottery ticket, but on the other hand, this is a MUCH smaller and controlled pool of people who buy tickets. You would think it would be part of the process to verify that the person buying the ticket is an eligible member. However, it would be a shit storm if it got out that an invalid person won the car (especially since we still have no idea if the raffle itself was even valid).
I see they announced a new winner and then closed the thread in the members only section. How did they do it? Did they move the second place winner up to the grand prize winner, and third prize up to second, then draw for new third prize winner? Or did they leave second and third where they are and draw a new grand prize winner?
If they drew a new grand prize winner and I was the original second and third prize winners, I would raising holy hell because I assume they weren't re-entered in the re-draw for the grand prize.
Like I said, what a complete cluster-fuck!

OK. At least I do agree with how they handled moving the other winners up. Still a complete cluster-fuck though.

And you're 100% correct in asking why in the hell Lee is still the acting president.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #78
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If he is Leaf's younger brother is he called Bud?
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Old September 6th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #79
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Ok JT's explanation makes perfect sense. It sounds like he is ok with the decision too. I wonder who ratted him out!
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Old September 6th, 2013, 05:32 PM   #80
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Ok JT's explanation makes perfect sense. It sounds like he is ok with the decision too. I wonder who ratted him out!
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