I can fully understand that someone might get upset over a comment or a word. Emotions get the better of us all at times. But yelling screaming and pounding of fists (outside of Festivus) is unacceptable for any management or group; (so says the Sicilian of VA). It's a car club. This should be easy and it should be respectful. Yes in years past, it was macho. But we don't need the WWE Randy Savage attitude today.
I'm sorry JT you went thru this. It was childish, boorish and disrespectful on every level. It clearly shows the need for a flushing of the management, and a full investigation by a third party to root out the depth of malfeasance that has happened.
Were I Chrysler and SRT, I would announce dissolving the relationship unless this happened.
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People should be pressing the VCA to disclose where, exactly, the raffle is being held.
It is a pretty serious issue, considering the recent position of Chrysler in regards to inappropriate mixing of funds and 'profiteering'.
There are tons of laws about these things for a reason - it is all to easy for people to misappropriate funds or operate in an obscure and unfair manner with raffles. If this raffle is not legal or licensed, then it needs to stop.
If it is held illegally anyway, then heads need to roll.
The fact that the entry form says it will be @ Woodhouse, and BillP says he looked into it and told management it could not/would not be at Woodhouse, then that is a very serious issue that was not disclosed to participants or club members, and needs addressed *immediately*.
Exactly what I was talking about in a previous post. The only reason I can see that these folks are hanging on is that they've done some really bad things they don't want new management to discover. Like go to jail things. If not why are they still around? Why aren't they more transparent? Remember Lee was the Treasurer he must have known where the money was going.
So, up until last week the entire raffle was to be held at Woodhouse. Mark told us all he'd film it.
Now, after the letter went public, Woodhouse suddenly isn't having it at their location. The means, Woodhouse contacted their representation and buttholes puckered.
This is bad. Not just bad, but really bad.
I understand Woodhouse not wanting to get involved with a legal shit show, but the actions speak that things aren't on the up and up.
Anyone care to scan a ticket, both sides, on here with the ticket # covered?
the back side of the ticket is blank. The only numers on the front are the members vca # and the ticket #. The rest just states the prize, cost of the ticket and date/time/location that it will be held in which is Woodhouse.
the back side of the ticket is blank. The only numers on the front are the members vca # and the ticket #. The rest just states the prize, cost of the ticket and date/time/location that it will be held in which is Woodhouse.
Thanks, and good luck! Well, no state, no license, and wrong location.
I would just like to know if it still taking place or not or if we all need to get with our CC companies and get our money back. That is $500 I could spend elsewhere.
I would just like to know if it still taking place or not or if we all need to get with our CC companies and get our money back. That is $500 I could spend elsewhere.
Ask on the VCA site, and let us know. We are the VCA accountability site.
They are not living up to the ticket as printed, so the credit card company should allow the transaction to be reversed.
It's also a really bad bet. They sell, I believe, more than twice the value of the car in tickets, then if you win it you have to add the full retail value to your annual income. For every dollar put in, it returns a net 25% to 33% after tax, depending on your tax bracket. The car you are getting is, I'm sure, nice but probably not the car you would have chosen on a factory order.
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Last edited by sundiego; August 27th, 2013 at 04:44 PM.
Thanks, and good luck! Well, no state, no license, and wrong location.
"management" will go ahead with the raffle and will redirect any questions over the event as people attacking the VCA, etc, etc.
The correct course of action would be to set this right BEFORE they hold the raffle. It is a sure thing that people are going to contact the authorities on this one, as well they should. And if the raffle is unlicensed, and has been unlicensed, then that is gross negligence on the part of the club management at least, and criminal/fraudulent at worst.
And this is yet another example of the type of shenanigans that Chrysler would not want to be associated with.
The management of the club has utterly failed in their duty to represent the club and members' best interest. We know they have soured the relationship with Chrysler. We know former management has been given preferential status with $$$ attached (VPA). And they may have held raffles illegally?
It really couldn't be any worse than this.
And this Bob guy over on VCA is blaming the latest troubles on the membership and on Chrysler - saying they were upset because they "thought" something... so is he saying Chrysler is wrong and now that they realize they are wrong, all is OK? Because that sure as shit isn't the feeling the letter puts forth. Seems like more obfuscation and redirection.
They will all go down with the ship - watch and see.
I can fully understand that someone might get upset over a comment or a word. Emotions get the better of us all at times. But yelling screaming and pounding of fists (outside of Festivus) is unacceptable for any management or group; (so says the Sicilian of VA). It's a car club. This should be easy and it should be respectful. Yes in years past, it was macho. But we don't need the WWE Randy Savage attitude today.
I'm sorry JT you went thru this. It was childish, boorish and disrespectful on every level. It clearly shows the need for a flushing of the management, and a full investigation by a third party to root out the depth of malfeasance that has happened.
Were I Chrysler and SRT, I would announce dissolving the relationship unless this happened.
I can be macho. ;-)
I can also hold my own - but I was a little dismayed at the behavior and did not respond in kind.
I am 100%sure, but cannot prove, that if I had behaved that way I would have been stopped and chastised, but since it was people attacking me, it was allowed to continue.
the back side of the ticket is blank. The only numers on the front are the members vca # and the ticket #. The rest just states the prize, cost of the ticket and date/time/location that it will be held in which is Woodhouse.
Since I had not trashed the 2 PDF's.. Here's the actual wording for Nebraska and Michigan
Nebraska
9-431. Lottery or raffle ticket or stub; requirements. Each licensed organization conducting a lottery or raffle conducted pursuant
to the Nebraska Lottery and Raffle Act shall have its name and identification number clearly printed on each lottery or raffle
ticket or stub used in such lottery or raffle. No such ticket or stub shall be sold unless such name and identification number is
so printed thereon. In addition, all lottery or raffle tickets or stubs shall bear a number, which numbers shall be in sequence and clearly printed on the ticket or stub.
Each ticket orstub shall have an equal chance of being chosen in the drawing.Each ticket or stub shall be constructed of the same
material,shall have the same surface, and shall be substantially the same shape,size, form, and weight.
Each licensed organization conducting a lottery or raffle shall keep a record of all locations where its tickets orstubs are sold.
Michigan
Tickets used in a licensed raffle, except those used for in-house raffles (see In-house
Raffles), must contain specific information. Raffle Rule R 432.21506 requires that each
ticket contain at a minimum the following information printed in a clear and legible
manner:
• The name of the licensee. Only the licensee can be listed as the sponsor of the
raffle.
• The license number.
• The word “raffle.”
• The date, time, and location of the drawing.
• The price of the raffle ticket.
• A unique sequential identification number on the raffle ticket and ticket stub.
• The top prize or other information as directed by the bureau.
• The stub of the ticket retained by the licensee shall contain a space for the
purchaser's name, address, and phone number.
Raffle tickets may contain other information as long as it does not conflict with these
requirements. Some commonly accepted items are: “Tickets compliments of...”,
“Proceeds to benefit…”, “Support provided by…”, and coupons for discounts at local
merchants.
If there is no raffle license, I would suspect that the state might help work with the club if the omission was the result of a clerical error and the rest of the rules have been followed / could be proven to the state's satisfaction.
Let's hope that the raffle can continue as it is a source of funding for the club - and hopefully- with changes going forward - the club will need funding / support. (Again - all of this assumes changes, openness, transparency, communication , etc with a "new" club.)
I wouldn't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater.
It appears that Nebraska only requires the org's name and ID number (likely the EIN) on the tickets as well as sequential tickets and uniform size / shape / texture. Hopefully that was how the tickets were printed.
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, the raffle car is nice as hell.
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