Never asked us if they could print our name on a ticket, just asked if we cared if the raffle was drawn here since the car was coming here. We said fine, but found out it was probably not appropriate under Nebraska Law and told them sorry it could not be done here. Chrysler/SRT can not do these as the cars have to go through Dealers, and so we , Tomball and others have done these to help out VCA over the years. Never been to a raffle, don't have a clue what is done, as we have only been the conduit the car went through, but could care less where they draw this - we just told them we could not do it.
What about all of these other guys (obviously besides the last two)? Which side of the fence are they on? Are they part of the problem or part of the solution?
*I'm asking, cause i dont know.
Bob Carroll drafted the current By Laws. He was at one point a pretty good National President but did he get turned to the dark side of the Force? I don't know but the By Laws are a big part of the problem. Article X Section 1 does however give the Board the right to change them as needed.
Bob Carroll drafted the current By Laws. He was at one point a pretty good National President but did he get turned to the dark side of the Force? I don't know but the By Laws are a big part of the problem. Article X Section 1 does however give the Board the right to change them as needed.
I have been in "executive session" BoD meetings with Bob Carroll where he was yelling, slamming his fists on the table and just bout ready to come over the table at me.
Ask the current KC VCA attorney - he was sitting in between us in September and I am sure he'd remember the behavior.
I have been in "executive session" BoD meetings with Bob Carroll where he was yelling, slamming his fists on the table and just bout ready to come over the table at me.
Ask the current KC VCA attorney - he was sitting in between us in September and I am sure he'd remember the behavior.
Carroll's part of the problem.
Honestly I thought so too. He did go to the dark side.
I have been in "executive session" BoD meetings with Bob Carroll where he was yelling, slamming his fists on the table and just bout ready to come over the table at me.
Ask the current KC VCA attorney - he was sitting in between us in September and I am sure he'd remember the behavior.
Carroll's part of the problem.
Met him a few times years ago at some events, had that imperialistic air that seems to be rife in the VCA leadership.
He's a lawyer by trade, so I'm sure he was looking out for whatever was best for the membership. Not.
My impression, anyway.
I have been in "executive session" BoD meetings with Bob Carroll where he was yelling, slamming his fists on the table and just bout ready to come over the table at me.
Ask the current KC VCA attorney - he was sitting in between us in September and I am sure he'd remember the behavior.
Carroll's part of the problem.
Janni,
I am really curious why people put up with that shit? There was the guy who claims Lee called him yelling and screaming... you talk about Bob Carroll pounding fists and yelling at you, etc, etc.
It's an unpaid volunteer position (for most, allegedly)... why on earth would people be so amped up to get their way that they get angry, and why would others accept that?
I think I would have died laughing if some non-paid dickhead whose "position of power" was being an "officer" in an unpaid position of a car club thought he could raise his voice to me.
As a fellow enthusiast, my mouth is also hanging open in shock and disgust. Been lurking a looooong time here (Viper's been on the list, and it's been closer and closer as I've gone from SRT-4 to SRT8). Not sure where I stand on my opinion of the local VCA folks (Okanagan, BC) as both times I approached them at shows when I was giving serious consideration to buying a used Viper I got brushed off.
My own personal history with car clubs is that 99% of the time, free is the way to go for the simple reason that your enthusiasm is the motivator. Most of the folks I've dealt with from "exclusive, membership-cost" car organizations tend to be more stuck up about their particular vehicle than anything else, and look down on everyone else. I've met local owners here that are not like that (thank god), and of course, the general membership here is also not like that.
Glad to see this got traction on both Jalopnik and Autoblog. Lots of talk about this outside the Viper world too; and so far the consensus I've heard or talked about is that we're all behind you guys 100%.
Only way I see VCA coming out of this smelling like roses is to clean house. No way in hell I'd slap down $$ for a membership the way things are right now, and I can only suggest everyone else vote with their wallets until the situation is resolved.
I find it strange that Pemberton( a great guy in my dealings with him) is disassociating himself with the drawing now. If the printing on the flyers and tickets was incorrect about the drawing being at his dealership, he should have brought that to the members' attention immediately, not now. Some may have bought those tickets because of the security they felt with Bill and Woodhouse.
Does Lee get liquored up and keep pulling until he sees a friend's name?
Which state will it be done? How can the members be assured it is being done honestly? What state law or license is covering it?
Which state will it be done? How can the members be assured it is being done honestly? What state law or license is covering it?
Another one of those things you're supposed to accept how it's done without question as the leadership knows whats best.
Leave the who, what and where to people in charge. Why do I have the feeling the Marshall's paws are all over this as well?
One of the reasons i asked is that Wedel is local to me (i have never met any of the others). I have met him several times in the last few years (just saw him last weekend, in fact). He has been extremely gracious and kind to me. He could not have been nicer and seems like a great guy to me. I enjoyed talking cars and Vipers with him.
I am really curious why people put up with that shit? There was the guy who claims Lee called him yelling and screaming... you talk about Bob Carroll pounding fists and yelling at you, etc, etc.
It's an unpaid volunteer position (for most, allegedly)... why on earth would people be so amped up to get their way that they get angry, and why would others accept that?
I think I would have died laughing if some non-paid dickhead whose "position of power" was being an "officer" in an unpaid position of a car club thought he could raise his voice to me.
I didn't accept it - I told him his behavior was unprofessional and also told Marv (the pres at the time) that he needed to now allow this in a VCA meeting.
Nothing was done. And to be honest- it was a little unsettling. I was there by myself and had to drive home that night to Raleigh because of a sick dog. I've also had Randall swear at me in meetings. Again - total lack of professionalism.
Ken Wells asked Lee how much Mary was paid at a President's meeting. Lee answered "Less than JRT". And I stood up and said - "see - this is why people get frustrated. Just disclose the payment" Finally - they did.
So -I decided to run for office after a lot of this ^^^.
the fist pounding, yelling, etc was at the Directors meeting prior to the election at VOI this past year. It was a completely disgusting display of aggression.
I didn't win - but I tried to change things from the inside. It didn't work. So now I have to try to change it from the outside.
__________________ “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
― Isaac Asimov
Another one of those things you're supposed to accept how it's done without question as the leadership knows whats best.
Leave the who, what and where to people in charge. Why do I have the feeling the Marshall's paws are all over this as well?
According to the MCVO Vice President :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmaker
The Michigan club did not tell the VCA "to go scratch" on the raffle. The club did all of the paperwork necessary to hold the raffle for VCA for many years. The Michigan club was licensed by the state to hold the raffle. For those efforts VCA paid the Michigan club. Don't know how the fee originated but it has been there for a long time. At some point in the last two years VCA decided it no longer wanted to pay the fee and said they would hold the raffle on their own. Which meant the VCA needed to acquire the necessary state approvals and pay the fees to hold the raffle in whichever state the "lottery"was to be held.
I didn't accept it - I told him his behavior was unprofessional and also told Marv (the pres at the time) that he needed to now allow this in a VCA meeting.
Nothing was done. And to be honest- it was a little unsettling. I was there by myself and had to drive home that night to Raleigh because of a sick dog. I've also had Randall swear at me in meetings. Again - total lack of professionalism.
Ken Wells asked Lee how much Mary was paid at a President's meeting. Lee answered "Less than JRT". And I stood up and said - "see - this is why people get frustrated. Just disclose the payment" Finally - they did.
So -I decided to run for office after a lot of this ^^^.
the fist pounding, yelling, etc was at the Directors meeting prior to the election at VOI this past year. It was a completely disgusting display of aggression.
I didn't win - but I tried to change things from the inside. It didn't work. So now I have to try to change it from the outside.
I wonder what the effect of this latest blow-up will be. There were lots of blow-ups in the past and the message was always the same "things are changing, WE NEED YOUR HELP! so get involved and help effect change". That always seemed to placate the less attentive members before. I see it's being rolled out again here by that Bob guy over at the VCA forum.
However, the fact that the letter has been published and that major automotive news outlets are reporting this has to make things even worse for SRT/Chrysler.
I read the letter a few times. I took it to mean "we told you that you need to make changes, you didn't... now we have a meeting coming up to determine the future of our relationship and we don't see it being good considering you have refused to address our concerns".
Does anyone here actually think the club will address the issues? I don't see it happening. Lee and Chris would go down with the ship before they gave up their "power" (and $$, allegedly). I think it's all up to Chrysler now to man up and do the right thing and yank their support. They really have to at this point.
What is interesting is that if you read the by-laws the second objective has been seemingly been thrown out the window with VPA and those making money off of it.
Quote:
The purpose of the Club shall be:
2. To be a unified voice for Viper owners and to act as liaison between the manufacturer and Viper owners.
I didn't accept it - I told him his behavior was unprofessional and also told Marv (the pres at the time) that he needed to now allow this in a VCA meeting.
Nothing was done. And to be honest- it was a little unsettling. I was there by myself and had to drive home that night to Raleigh because of a sick dog. I've also had Randall swear at me in meetings. Again - total lack of professionalism.
Ken Wells asked Lee how much Mary was paid at a President's meeting. Lee answered "Less than JRT". And I stood up and said - "see - this is why people get frustrated. Just disclose the payment" Finally - they did.
So -I decided to run for office after a lot of this ^^^.
the fist pounding, yelling, etc was at the Directors meeting prior to the election at VOI this past year. It was a completely disgusting display of aggression.
I didn't win - but I tried to change things from the inside. It didn't work. So now I have to try to change it from the outside.
Not only is that unprofessional, but it is cowardly and disrespectful to speak to anyone like that, especially a lady. Either you struck a real nerve or it was just bully tactics. I wonder if he felt real manly after that. All of this over a freaking car club.
Not only is that unprofessional, but it is cowardly and disrespectful to speak to anyone like that, especially a lady. Either you struck a real nerve or it was just bully tactics. I wonder if he felt real manly after that. All of this over a freaking car club.
Quote of the day "All of this over a freaking car club."
Please, Please click on this link to the IRS tax return, and scroll to Page 6: 'Governing Body and Management' . Read these questions and answers abbreviated below:
IRS Q 2. 'Did any officer, director, key employee have a family relationship or business relationship with any other officer, director, or key employee? ' Treasurer Lee replied "NO" in both 2010 and 2011
-------------------------------
IRS Q 4: 'Did organization make any significant changes to its governing documents since prior filing?' Treasurer said: "NO" in 2010 and 2011 despite the total gutting and replacemnet of the entire bylaws!
--------------------------------
IRS Q 5: 'Did the org become aware in the year of a significant diversion of the org's assets?' Treasurer said "NO" in 10/11.
This despite the $50K loan to the VPoO which was later told to members (but not IRS) is an investment.
---------------------------------
IRS Q 7 'Did the org have members or other persons who had the power to elect or appoint one or more members of the governing body?" Treasurer said "NO:
This despite hand-picking ZD-DAL-Regional appointments of only proven supporters. Noteworthy: FL DAL appointment last week!
-----------------------------
IRS Q 8: 'Did org contemporaneously document the meetings held, or written actions undertaken by the governing body or committees?' Treasurer said "YES" !!
Ask Secty Bobby C. for ANY of the 09-12 minutes, or Maurice in 2013 for that matter. "Contemporaneus" means "at the time."
Rarely happened.
-------------------------
IRS Q 10: already addressed - "Treasurer says 'NO Branches chapters, or affiilliates' despite a multitude of evidence to the contrary. (Common definitions standing.)
IRS Q 12: 'Does the org have a written Conflict Of Interest policy?' Treasurer in '10 and '11 replied "NO"
This contradicts the historic, mandatory and recently-INVASIVE COI policy for all offiecers, but marshalls apparently exempt.
------------------------- And here is my absolute favorite question:
IRS Q 16: "Did the organization invest in, contribute assets to, or participate in a joint venture or similar arrangement with a taxable entity during the year?" Treasurer stated "NO" in '10-11.
This despite the VPoA / Mopar subsidiary agreements.
There are "20 questions" on ONE PAGE. Please take a look?
People should be pressing the VCA to disclose where, exactly, the raffle is being held.
It is a pretty serious issue, considering the recent position of Chrysler in regards to inappropriate mixing of funds and 'profiteering'.
There are tons of laws about these things for a reason - it is all to easy for people to misappropriate funds or operate in an obscure and unfair manner with raffles. If this raffle is not legal or licensed, then it needs to stop.
If it is held illegally anyway, then heads need to roll.
The fact that the entry form says it will be @ Woodhouse, and BillP says he looked into it and told management it could not/would not be at Woodhouse, then that is a very serious issue that was not disclosed to participants or club members, and needs addressed *immediately*.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Linear Mode
