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Viper Club of America -Viper Parts of America -SRT Lee Stubberfield letter of doom

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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #581
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Poor Bob is taking an awful beating. He is doing his best impression of the Black Knight from the Holy Grail right now. ("tis only a flesh wound--come back here") Each post is weaker, to the point where one of the most recent ones is a Youtube of a cat fight.
He's a curmudgeon who is beholden to CM according to a previous post here.
Bob says its due to people disgruntled by the economy. So there you go.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:20 PM   #582
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:21 PM   #583
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:21 PM   #584
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FOr anyone that things that the concerns from Chrysler / SRT are "new" or "recent" - let's not forget the document called the "Transparency Document" that was written in response to Chrysler's unhappiness with the lack of openness in the club. it was "published" at VOI - 11 months ago and was a long time in the works.

It was a 20+ page editorial of "the VCA world according to Chris and Marv" and was in no way anything that should have been shared as a professional document.

Since I don't have a bird, I didn't line the cage with it. let's see if I have a copy lying (pun!) around!
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #585
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More Dan Everts stories. Viper Days at Buttonwillow. I'm in a stock '08, He's in a Gen 4 ACR. Built engine and slicks. Same driver , there should be 5 seconds a lap difference or more.

It was red group, but you would get kicked off if you passed without a point by. I catch up to him, and he won't point me by for two laps, on a long track. How to waste a good chunk of my session. I have never had some one block for that long in 100 track days. I then start pulling away at a conservative 2 second a lap. I'm on a transponder. He comes in , no transponder, and claims to be faster, self timed. He then is posting as Viper X on the track section of VCA like he's Sebastian Vettel.

Now I'm not very fast, so that weekend I hired Terry R to coach me. Terry is fast and smooth, and at the time , unemployed, with 2 kids. $500 a day. Great value, and it helped. Dan hires him another time, and offers him $500 in used Viper parts. Dan asks for them back a few months later.

Now Dan crashed that ACR at Fontana, and made a great noise about how the suspension broke, and he discovered a great problem for Dodge. Couldn't man up to the crash. (I've had a medium smack in the Viper, and a small one in my GTP. Both 100% my fault) Dan, to my knowledge, has never been in a race, only time trials, and he doesn't take a transponder anymore so he can self report. It doesn't stop him telling people about racing his car. It's tracking, not racing. Those who race and risk themselves and their cars get that title.

If you want pompous, look at the ViperX posts on the VCA track section.

His ethics off the track are likely to reflect his ethics on the track.

His wife Cathy is a delight, and has been wonderful to the Viper club.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #586
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He's a curmudgeon who is beholden to CM according to a previous post here.
Bob says its due to people disgruntled by the economy. So there you go.
At least the economic downturn didn't impact CM.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #587
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Here you go, well written and right to the heart of the matter.
Off the VCA site just now.

Here's some interesting reading from someone apparently in the know. I won't disclose who sent this but it went to all the Presidents.

My fellow officers: I have read all the emails concerning the problems between the VCA and SRT and I would like to say that I am pleased that this has come into the open because of Chrysler's response to Lee's inaccurate summation of the last meeting with SRT. Lee is now forced to defend his statements and can't hide behind his wall of secrecy and threats of banishment from the club if anyone says anything he doesn't like. Although you will note that he has already tried to keep this information from the membership and has started his anticipated attack against Jim Johnson, for forwarding the information to the presidents. Lee has called for a board meeting tonight, which Jim has been excluded from, to no doubt attack Jim and try to spin his false statements into something the board will believe.

Chrysler was not afraid of this letter getting out. It wasn't a secret. It was on official company letterhead and was not marked confidential or do not distribute. For someone who ran on the platform of communication, that is the last thing Lee wants to do. After all, he neglected to invite Maurice, our national secretary, and Randall, our national vice president, to the meeting with SRT. Instead he invited Dan our national treasurer and Chris Marshall who has no official title. Now why do you suppose that is the case? Could it be that Chris is pulling the strings and/or that Chris's entire livelihood depends on the VCA as you will see below.

First and foremost things are not fine with SRT, as Lee keeps telling us. Everyone should know that by now. To put it nicely, Lee tried to mislead us. Things have not been fine since the January presidents meeting in Detroit when Ralph had a meeting with the National officers. Club members had complained to National about the way the club was being run and transparency of finances, which fell on deaf ears. So they went to Ralph for help. Ralph was concerned about sending owners of the new Viper to a club with complaints, so he asked for changes in the way the club was being run, including issues of transparency, as many of us had already done. If you would like to know the details, then by all means ask Mr. communication himself or one of the other National officers, but the point is they were put on notice to make changes.

Instead of discussing this with the regional presidents in an open forum at the meeting, Lee demanded that no one speak of the meeting while he, Marv and a few others plotted what to do. They had the choice of working with SRT for the benefit of our club and its membership, but they chose to attack Ralph in a very methodical way instead. First with a letter by former DAL Tim Wollesen to Sergio accusing Ralph of costing SRT sales by meddling in club business. When this didn't work, it was followed by an anonymous letter to Chrysler accusing Ralph of wrongdoing including the taking of bribes. All the while telling the membership that everything was fine. Ralph has copies of these letters and is also aware of the statement by Lee and Marv that the VCA doesn't need SRT's support. What ignorant arrogance by these two. Does anyone think that Ralph and SRT will forgive and forget these attacks? Really? Well they haven't.

I spent a week with SRT at Le Mans in June and it was clear they wanted nothing to do with the VCA, at least while the present leadership was in place. Need more proof? You will note that the VCA, which was once prominently displayed on the Dodge/SRT website, is nowhere to be found. Not one word letting anyone know that the international car club representing their halo car even exists. Want more? We will not be allowed to hang any VCA banners at any SRT events such as the Southwest Zone Rendezvous in Austin next month. Further, I attended the Pebble Beach Concours last weekend and asked about VCA displays at the SRT tent and was told "absolutely not". Yes that is a quote. Finally, you will note that Ralph no longer writes the forward in Viper magazine and not because of the excuse Lee made up. In simple terms you can't bite the hand that feeds you and expect them to like it. So anyone telling you that all is well between the VCA and SRT is lying.

People often ask why? Why would someone want to slander Ralph? It all comes back to money. It started with a simple question when I asked Chris Marshall just how much he was making off the club, at the presidents meeting a year and a half ago in Phoenix. Aside from the publicly known answer that Coast to Coast Marketing (Mary Marshall) is paid $60,000 a year to manage the club he refused to give a straight answer. To this day the National office has not disclosed his total compensation working for the club. While no one is objecting to people being paid for their work we have a right to know how much the club pays them. So what do we know? We know Mary is paid as above and Chris is in charge of Viper Magazine and receives all advertising revenues up to $75,000 a year. We all know how well that is going with the current issue being four months late and no reason given to all those who have asked. And, did you know that Chris made his son the editor? BTY reports are that the magazine is losing money as well. Chris is also running the VPA and is paid somewhere in the $50,000 a year range. We asked him for the figure at the January meeting and he refused to give it to us. So maybe someone here should ask him again. I'm sure everyone here would like to see the real financial records of the VPA to determine just how it is benefiting the club. As yet they refuse to show them to us. No the one sheet summary of two year old figures shown at the presidents meeting does not count. Let's also not forget the $50,000 Chris demanded to be paid to run the VOI last year. He and Mary got their money and the club lost money on the VOI. I don't suppose they would like to kick back a little to the club now would they? As Chris will tell you, both he and Mary were unemployed when they went on the club payroll so it is absolutely in their best interests to keep the gravy train rolling. Now you know exactly why Chrysler mentioned them in their letter. They have a monopoly on the club business which doesn't look good to anyone especially Chrysler.

To be fair I would point out that many of us, myself included, think Mary does a good job managing the club but the lack of transparency in the financial's of Viper Magazine and the VPA as well as their apparent monopoly on all aspects of the business side of the club has to change.

It's obvious from Chrysler's letter that the roadblocks to reestablishing a healthy relationship with SRT are having Chris and Mary Marshall managing the business, as well as the trust that has been lost with the national office. Its time to replace them with people who are trusted by both VCA as well as SRT.

If you are happy with the way things are and are content to be dictated and lied to all the while being alienated from the manufacturer of our whole reason to be, the Viper, then do nothing. If not, then take action at your meeting tonight and take back your club and demonstrate to Chrysler that there are good people here and that we will no longer tolerate the status quo. People, this is a car club make it fun again!
This was posted here back on page 11. Well worth a repost as Ken Wells from OK did an excellent job of writing it
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:48 PM   #588
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I am not an attorney, but a quick read of a few IRS pubs seems to point to the "chapters" question being about "subordinate organizations" (as defined by the IRS). This is a formal and legal/technical arrangement related to how exemptions were obtained, how governance and control works between the related organizations, and so forth.

I'm *guessing* (since I don't actually know anything about how the regions/zones/whatever work) that this question is answered correctly. It's not just a casual "yes there are local chapters" question; it's asking about a very specific technical organizational concept in the tax code. It doesn't matter that the regions are really just collections of members of the VCA; that doesn't make them a subordinate organization for the purpose of this question.

You may resume throwing rocks at everything else (deservedly so) but this particular point (picked on by jalopnik as well) seems overblown.
What about part VI, line 2?

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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #589
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The club is not in danger of going away. There is a tidal wave of drama queenism going on at the moment. Eventually the wave will crest and subside. Once it does, reasonable people will hopefully step up to the plate and unite everyone going forward.
From VCA.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:54 PM   #590
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OK, more Dan Everets stories. A bunch of us are drag racing at Fontana. I used to drive 100 miles on slicks and skinnies from my home, but got a little wiser with experience(note to newbs, when you hit the brakes hard the brakes are balanced for the bigger tires on the front, not the skinnies. Flat spot. I hadn't figured that out either.) So I trailered for a change. Dan had driven his car. Something broke on his car, so I left mine, and trailered his about an hour or more to his home, half an hour loading his Viper over a steep driveway hump, so the non running car was in the garage, not the street. Drove back to the track and trailered mine home for about 2 more hours. Hello 3 AM.

On the ride to his house, I explain, in confidence, the problems with the local Viper tuner(not that gem of a guy, Dan Cragin, I hadn't used him yet). The tuner wouldn't return my original parts. I gave him the money for an engine rebuild, and he kept delaying getting it back to me, saying the guy whose was honing the cylinders was backed up. I go to the honer's shop and he told me the tuner hadn't paid him anything yet. So I ask Dan to keep an eye on the guy, for the members' sake. Dan calls the tuner the next day to tell him, and doesn't warn anyone. It's a fair world in the long run most of the time. Dan did tens of thousands of work with the guy, and a year or so later had similar results. The tuner went broke a bit later. But Dan, geez, if a guy spends his evening driving you and your car home, respect what he asks.

P.S. The PMs I have been getting from those that know him are yet to do anything but agree about his ethics.

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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #591
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Originally Posted by ViperJon View Post
He's a curmudgeon who is beholden to CM according to a previous post here.
Bob says its due to people disgruntled by the economy. So there you go.
In reality, I don't have much of an issue with someone getting paid to do the work of the club. It should be some college kid doing the daily stuff. It doesn't take a rocket engineer to fill out paperwork, send out ID badges, and stuff envelopes.

But, the way the VCA is structured, it creates an issue. Really, the brass should be there on a voluntary basis, ensuring that things are running right.

Is it an issue if the brass gets flown somewhere on the VCA time? Not really - if they were volunteering.

The VCA is structured to flow money to a specific few - who want to ensure that money keeps flowing to them. You'd think, if they had any brains, they wouldn't bite the hands (SRT and members) that feed them.

If those in charge truly cared about the fate of the VCA, they'd do the right thing and step aside to wash away the negativity and make things better.

But, seeing as it is a business - that probably won't occur. It is a business, not a car club. That is the issue.

Perhaps the resolution is the regional clubs to walk away from the national and reform. Let Chrysler pull the chains on the use of "Viper" by the VCA and start from scratch.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 06:21 PM   #592
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Jon B is not my buddy. I ordered stuff once from him 10 years ago, and it went so-so. I met him at a Viper Days(Pahrump, I think) once, and he was quite entertaining. Full disclosure.

Free Jon B!!!!!!

It is the first step to show change. It gets rid of one conflict of interest. It is a positive step showing that you freaking get it!!!

You guys wrote Ralph's boss. Based on the precedent, you should suspend yourselves. You aren't going to self suspend, but the first and easiest sign of change is let him back. He did his time, and he is part of Viper history. However strange he is.

Free Jon B!! Free Jon B!!!
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Old August 26th, 2013, 06:55 PM   #593
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I was at the Monterey historic races a few years ago and saw one of the most prolific gossips in this thread with a goofy looking car that had some kind of red crustacean on it, maybe a crab or lobster or such. To tell you the truth I don't know how his fat ass fit in the car but maybe he buttered it, who knows. Anyway I was going to approach him but he just didn't look like he could be trusted, you know, not the kind of guy you would want to buy a house from so I kept my distance. After talking to some of the other drivers I found out there was a family of five making a nice living off just selling him brake pads and rotors and to give him about ten car lengths if you ever get on a track with him. Go figure.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 06:59 PM   #594
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Jon B is not my buddy. I ordered stuff once from him 10 years ago, and it went so-so. I met him at a Viper Days(Pahrump, I think) once, and he was quite entertaining. Full disclosure.

Free Jon B!!!!!!

It is the first step to show change. It gets rid of one conflict of interest. It is a positive step showing that you freaking get it!!!

You guys wrote Ralph's boss. Based on the precedent, you should suspend yourselves. You aren't going to self suspend, but the first and easiest sign of change is let him back. He did his time, and he is part of Viper history. However strange he is.

Free Jon B!! Free Jon B!!!

Given the magnitude of the problem, "freeing" Jon B is like pissing in the ocean.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #595
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So it's symbolic. Meanwhile, free him. Free Jon B!
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Old August 26th, 2013, 07:01 PM   #596
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$76k in fucking "office expenses"? Seriously?
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Old August 26th, 2013, 07:05 PM   #597
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I can explain why Bob is pro Marshall.

Back when the VOI was held in Utah and the G5 prototype was revealed to all that attended Bob was unable to attend. He began asking National officers and people who were friends with Ralph if he could sign a non disclosure agreement and be allowed to see the pics/rendering/drawings. Chris Marshall made this happen for him and he's been a nuthugger ever since.
You have answered something that has puzzled me for a while. He made a complete 180 back then and I could never figure it. When I asked other's, I got the "where's your Tin foil hat" look.

Damn, now I have to dig that sucker outa my closet. Oh wait, I think I gave it to Andy.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #598
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Uh oh, Bob is getting excited again. Where is the rest of the crew?
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Old August 26th, 2013, 07:19 PM   #599
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Originally Posted by sundiego View Post
More Dan Everts stories. Viper Days at Buttonwillow. I'm in a stock '08, He's in a Gen 4 ACR. Built engine and slicks. Same driver , there should be 5 seconds a lap difference or more.

It was red group, but you would get kicked off if you passed without a point by. I catch up to him, and he won't point me by for two laps, on a long track. How to waste a good chunk of my session. I have never had some one block for that long in 100 track days. I then start pulling away at a conservative 2 second a lap. I'm on a transponder. He comes in , no transponder, and claims to be faster, self timed. He then is posting as Viper X on the track section of VCA like he's Sebastian Vettel.

Now I'm not very fast, so that weekend I hired Terry R to coach me. Terry is fast and smooth, and at the time , unemployed, with 2 kids. $500 a day. Great value, and it helped. Dan hires him another time, and offers him $500 in used Viper parts. Dan asks for them back a few months later.

Now Dan crashed that ACR at Fontana, and made a great noise about how the suspension broke, and he discovered a great problem for Dodge. Couldn't man up to the crash. (I've had a medium smack in the Viper, and a small one in my GTP. Both 100% my fault) Dan, to my knowledge, has never been in a race, only time trials, and he doesn't take a transponder anymore so he can self report. It doesn't stop him telling people about racing his car. It's tracking, not racing. Those who race and risk themselves and their cars get that title.

If you want pompous, look at the ViperX posts on the VCA track section.

His ethics off the track are likely to reflect his ethics on the track.

His wife Cathy is a delight, and has been wonderful to the Viper club.
Pro tip from a guy here who has only about 2 track days. If you have a guy who won't point you by, pit in and let him get far ahead so you don't waste half your session.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #600
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What about part VI, line 2?
or part VI Section A line 2? Ok, so who's gonna report these scumbags for a full on IRS audit?
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