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GEN IV (2008) SRT10 comparison to GEN II (2000 GTS)

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GEN IV (2008) SRT10 comparison to GEN II (2000 GTS)
Old November 16th, 2009, 03:14 AM   #1
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GEN IV (2008) SRT10 comparison to GEN II (2000 GTS)

Okay guys, here is a history for reference that I am making. I heard this and that about the 2008 cars compared to the GEN II, but after owning both I wanted to put together a post for others to make an informed judgment. For the record of anyone reading this, I bought my 2000 GTS in 2003 with 9K miles on it stock except for smooth tubes and K&N's and just purchased my 2008 SRT-10 Coupe with 5K miles on it. The 2000 GTS I will refer to as a GTS, GEN II or 00 so I can type easily. The 2000 GTS I drove to 18K miles, got an Arrow motor rebuild under warranty, got a Roe blower and then slowly started adding more modifications to it bring the horsepower level to a point where it will be competing next month to possibly set a new Roe blower record. I drive my cars and my 2000 has 39K miles on it and has been in 8 states. I also drive my cars hard, no rest for the wicked so if you are looking for some BS Car and Driver report, this is a real one and I have interest in any way.

Let's go by category and I will try and clearly differentiate my opinion verses fact, but also give you my opinion. This is after having my 08 Coupe now for over a week and enough for me to give an honest review.

Engine/Power/MPG:
The power of my stock GEN II was quite impressive. The low end torque was terrific, and high end was a bit lacking, but still decent. Of course with all the mods I put into the 00, this has changed so not fair to compare now but suffice to say my 00 would slaughter my 08 in a race. The 08 I quickly found the redline is higher, the powerband is much longer going from about 2000-6500 RPM and pulls very strong throughout the range. The only weak point on the 08 power band is the really low end portion, I think it just feels a bit weak below 2K RPM. Top speed it seems near limitless thus far, but I have only seen 160+ MPH in the 08 and the 00 well, let's say near 190 MPH. Gas mileage on the 08 when driven nicely is incredible, something I noticed right off the back a great improvement over the 00. As expected, when beating the 08, the mileage dropped off quite a bit, but still VERY impressive all things considered. The MPH on the 00 stock was less while making approximately 150 HP less. The noise from the engine in the 08 seems like it makes more noise, but it is attributed to the side exhaust. That took a little getting accustomed to as it seemed to me like I had an exhaust leak in the side sill like I had several times in my 00 GTS. The 08/09 also are not in the dealerships with engine problems while some of the 03-06 engines could have problems with oiling when pushed hard without the comp oil pans installed. So far, I give this to the 08 as winner in the engine category.

Transmission/Clutch:
Again, here comes MOPAR with the stupid lock out with shifting. Another 6 speed with the too high shifter, but it does shift smoother than my GTS. I remember my GTS transmission with stock clutch well in my 00, nice package but never shifted effortlessly into gears. It was always like the blocking rings kind of grabbed the gears a hair going into gear. Still with a rebuilt transmission and 4 clutches later, my 00 GTS is still the same way. The 08 on the other hand slides smoothly into gear without the grab. Pedals are adjustable on both cars and the clutch pedal on both cars feel good. I'd give this round to the 08 only because of shifting easiness.

Braking:
When I got my GTS I was really impressed with the braking. The car braked nicely, except the front brakes overpowered the car a bit and the rears never locked. I took the car to Pocono Raceway for 30 minute heats to beat it through the course and the car did me justice. The car lasted for a few 30 minute heats stock, where my Corvette died and could not make it the first 30 minute heat. I then read about brake upgrades, changed pads front and rear, swapped to a higher boiling point fluids and that helped with racing. The bias on the brakes till being off, I got the upgraded rear 40mm calipers from Tom and boy what a nice difference. The GTS then drove the way it should and could also hold up to beatings while not hurting my wallet. This is still my current system on my GTS and one I am very happy with. That was, until I purchased the 2008. The 08's brake are 14' front and rear and are nothing less than incredible. At this point I have not raced the car, I have put her through the paces (even getting 3 tickets in two stops driving from Georgia to New Jersey coming home) enough to know the 08 has this hands down. It is also notable to say the GTS does not have ABS and the 08 does. I'd prefer to have ABS with an on off switch as I do race and prefer not to have ABS at the track while racing, but on the street I would prefer ABS. The ABS on the SRT I have not has go off, something I was worried about. My concern was that the stupid ABS would be going on and off a lot as I do run my cars, but thus far it is not aggressive where it engages-so this round also clearly goes to the 08.

Handling:
Well, let me preface this by saying I have been running my GTS on the street with Nitto drag radials for the past few years. I also played with my alignment on my GTS to help me race while doing top speed runs, so that is no longer stock. That said, my point of reference stock to stock is really off in this category. My GTS now with drag radials on the back does not handle great on turns, but is still respectable. My current alignment is twitchy and even my front stock tire size is 295/35 not 275/35-18, so my reference point again is off. I do remember getting my GTS and running her at the track on Pilots and it was not too forgiving and hard to learn the car-in fact MUCH harder to learn over my Corvette that I had at the time. So let me talk about the 08 Coupe-it simply put is great. Very easy to learn, the car is forgiving compared to the GEN II and although I am still getting the real feel for it, I am duly impressed. The GEN II however I do not estimate in the right hands, I know the GTS is a terrific car handling with the right tires and alignment and both on the track would be awesome. With the same power in capable hands and equal tires, it would be a terrific race and not sure which would win if you had the alignments tweaked. I am guessing the 08 would win, but again not too sure on that end. The rides however are quite different. The GEN II is raw with lots of bumps being felt and the driver has a feel for the car, where the 08 is more comfortable and absorbs the road shocks better not telegraphing the road feel as much. On a trip, I think most would prefer the 08 but on a track the GEN II gives a great feel and might be an advantage. This category I will give it a tie to as much will be in the hands of the driver and the alignment/tires chosen and while both rides are different, the "better one" is subjective in my opinion.

Interior:
The GEN II when I got it was great. Nice gauges, leather, a bit of a pain to get into and out without hitting the door sills and it was reasonable. The radio sucked, or so I thought but thanks to ViperAlley I found out to junk the stock speakers and get good ones and all would be great to my ears as it should be. The factory air conditioning on the 00 was next to horrible, I would say a 2 on a 1 to 10 as it was undersized in my opinion. Sure, take the cats off and or get high flow cats/exhaust and it helps, but then it is still a 3 on a 1-10. The 08 showed some nice improvements of an additional gauge for oil temperature, a higher MPH speedometer from 200 to 220 MPH and the seat seems to wrap around me better. I was not sliding in my 00's seat per se, although it did not seem to grip me like a race seat should. The 08 seat was leather with some suede stuff in the center and not sure if that is why it feels better or not, but I feel a lot more secure in it like I can hit Pocono Raceway and not slide around. I was also dead set on getting a NAV system for my Viper as I often take the Viper out for a 3 day mini-vacation to places we just drive to without knowing where we are going, and can use it to get around. After talking with my buddy Mark J, he said the Viper's NAV system was horrible and don't worry about getting a Viper with it. Well, to say that the 08's NAV system is horrible is a gross understatement. Seriously, no wonder this company went out of business. I am dead serious when I say it is a 2 on a 1-100 scale. The only reason it gets a 2 is that it lights up. No home feature to program your address, it is literally the slowest NAV system I have ever seen, hard to read, hard to use and my God it is such a waste of money. Combine that with the absolute pitiful thing they call a radio it is a joke. The NAV and radio is one unit and get this, you have to have the disk inserted into the NAV unit to use the NAV unit so there goes the CD player when you are using NAV! My girlfriend's 2004 Accord has a factory NAV installed and a NAV disk holder in the trunk and works a lot better. The radio on the 00 after changing speakers is a 8 on a 1-10 for a factory radio of that time and before the speaker change I would say it is a 5 on a 1-10. The 08's radio and just the radio had no volume at all, it is horrific waste of trash. At full volume listing to music for 8 hours, I donít think your ears would even hurt. I mean what were they thinking selling this absolute TRASH. The factory radio is a 2 on a 1-10 and I have the upgraded NAV model-lol. Again this is a horrible thing for the 08, I would recommend you save a $1000 and buy a used 08 that I crack head broke into and stole the radio as the factory radio is worth about $15 if it was priced for actual performance. As one ViperAlley member said, it was the biggest waste of $2200 in my entire life or something along that line. On a positive note, the 08 has a nice storage area in the center console unlike the 00 where it is the little baby in the vertical position. On a negative note, the 08 has a two position door hinge where it opens about 40% of the way and locks where it is kind of hard to get in and out. The other position is 100% out which really throw the door near perpendicular to the car and make it hard to get out of in my garage. I don't know guys, I thought the 08 would be better, but that radio and NAV is so terrible I can't get over it. To say it is a piece of trash, is laughable-the company should have went bankrupt for allowing that to be produced-it is like nobody is watching and with that I would give this a tie. Take the radio out and the 08 gets it, but this is a tie in my opinion.

Exterior:
The is a subjective area as I have nothing serious to report. The 00 GTS has low clearance and scrapes the front when hitting anything low like driveways, speed bumps and the like as any GEN II GTS driver can attest. The 08 has a little plastic strip underneath, so it gives you a little warning and will still scrape, but not as bad as the 00. My GTS has factory painted stripes and gets a lot more looks than my 08. The 08 almost blends in with traffic unlike the GTS that screams look at me, I am a kewl car-lol. Looks I prefer my GTS and that is even with my 08 having the nice 5 spoke factory wheels that I really like. This part is strictly my opinion, but the GTS gets this trophy due to the body looking more aggressive.

Overall:
I think which one is better is dependent on what your intentions are. For stock verses stock as a driver, both are great. For modding them up with 5K, both are also great, but beyond that the 08 will be problematic due to the computer constraints. I like them both, but if I had to have my cars as they sit, it would clearly be my 2000 GTS but then again I have a lot of money into my GTS to make it a lot faster than stock and brake a bit better. If I were to consult for MOPAR, the 08 radio and anyone associated with that area should be slowly castrated as it really hurts the car but out of the box the 08 is a better performer in nearly every respect. It is just to me the 1996-2002 Viper is timeless, aggressive and epitomizes Viper where the 2003-2009 Viper got robbed of the unique look after Corvette stole the shape. So to each his own, but if you guys have specific questions, post away and I will answer as best I can. Again, I love both my cars but just hope to help others who are considering going from one generation to the other by making an informed opinion. I'm grateful and blessed to have the opportunity to own either of these cars, but to have both man all I can say is life is good! Gary
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Old November 16th, 2009, 08:14 AM   #2
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Excellent write up! Thanks!!!
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Old November 16th, 2009, 01:34 PM   #3
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That's pretty much spot on. I owned a 2000 since new for 3-4 years. Mods were full Belanger exhaust (436 rwhp & 472 rwtq) 3.55 gears, 4 wheel stoptech brakes, aluminum flywheel, Hoosier R3S03s on CCW wheels for the track and a full track alignment and 5 points. I compare this car to a virgin '08 ACR at Willow Springs (The Fastest Track in the West).

Both cars got the MGW short shifter which is and absolute "must". the Gen 2 was extremely difficult to learn how to drive fast in, even with the 14.2" Stoptechs braking was good but there was no ABS, I've flatspotted a few tires.
The ACR's brakes were extrodinary for stock.

Even with the 3 point belts the seat held me in better then the Gen 2 with 5 points ever did. I felt the ease of shifting was about the same, with the Gen 2 having better lower end power but above 2,000 rpm the ACR screamed. The ACR was much easier to drive I learned it quickly and in 4 track days I was turning 1:31.03 at WSIR compared to a best of 1:32.48 in the Gen 2.

The ACR is the shit, Gen2 was a good car but no comparison, same mods to the ACR would net me 1:28s for sure



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Old November 16th, 2009, 08:35 PM   #4
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Nice writeup, I agree. I owned a 01 GTS for a few years and a little less than a year ago I traded it in on an 08 coupe. I like to say the Gen4 as the Gen2 on steriods.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 09:12 PM   #5
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Thanks for that evaluation. I was thinking, should I get the Nav in a Gen 4 for the rare occasion that I would use it in the Viper, or should I just use the i-Phone or the one in the PDA? I've had half a dozen different GPS Navs since 1995, and by far the worst I've ever seen is the one in a 2009 Audi A4. It is counterintuitive, user-belligerent, and just "off", like reading the diary of some schizoid. It is so bad that I would rather not spend a couple of hundred bucks (much less 2k) than to have it in my car. So, the 2009 ACR with the hardcore package will be just fine.

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Old November 16th, 2009, 09:14 PM   #6
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Thanks for the write up. I'm considering buying an aftermarket extended used car warranty on mine with comprehensive coverage. Should save me a few bucks in the long run-hopefully. Any recommnedations if you know any company that sells used car warranty?
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Old November 16th, 2009, 09:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snk btn 2 View Post
Thanks for the write up. I'm considering buying an aftermarket extended used car warranty on mine with comprehensive coverage. Should save me a few bucks in the long run-hopefully. Any recommnedations if you know any company that sells used car warranty?
I would only use MOPAR, but not to worry, Obama is backing them all with your tax money anyhow I would not buy squat UNLESS you beat it to death.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 09:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snk btn 2 View Post
Thanks for the write up. I'm considering buying an aftermarket extended used car warranty on mine with comprehensive coverage. Should save me a few bucks in the long run-hopefully. Any recommnedations if you know any company that sells used car warranty?
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Old November 16th, 2009, 09:40 PM   #9
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Great write up! Sounds like I made the right choice with going with the GTS first....
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Old November 16th, 2009, 09:42 PM   #10
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Cliffies?
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Old November 16th, 2009, 09:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Cliffies?
Cliffies:
Purchase 08 Coupe in SC, fly to GA from NJ, drive home, visit Bobby in SC, get ticket in SC, pay ticket, get another ticket in VA, arrive home, retain lawyer for VA mandatory court appearance, blame Bobby for everything, post on Alley that 08 is really nice out of the box except radio and NAV suck ass, but in my 00 GTS's current state, I prefer the 00 GTS over the 08.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAD68GTO View Post
Cliffies:
Purchase 08 Coupe in SC, fly to GA from NJ, drive home, visit Bobby in SC, get ticket in SC, pay ticket, get another ticket in VA, arrive home, retain lawyer for VA mandatory court appearance, blame Bobby for everything, post on Alley that 08 is really nice out of the box except radio and NAV suck ass, but in my 00 GTS's current state, I prefer the 00 GTS over the 08.

I always blame Bobby for everything anyway


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Old November 22nd, 2009, 09:24 PM   #13
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some of you guys are killing me...

I had a 99 gen 2 and a 2003 gen3..

With KN filter and smooth tubes the gen2 dynoed 428 rwhp
With KN filter and roller rockers the gen3 dynoed 459 rwhp

Gen 3 was notiably faster...I tested them both and was 3 tenths and 2 mph faster through the 1/4 mile than the gen2..

gen 3 braked SIGNIFICANTLY better...

Gen3 interior was SIGNIFICANTLY better....

Gen3 handling was SIGNIFICANTLY better...

The looks department just really depends on you...I think the GTS looks kooler..But I also remember how the body lines didnt match up with huge gaps I was constanlt readjusting and headlights that were constantly yellowing. I was a lil embarrassed to park next to a friends C6Z06 or another friends e55AMG in the gen2 because up close yopu could really see some of the flaws that the gen2's had from the factory....Now the gen3 srt10 on the other hand..I would park that thing next to a Ferrari/lambo and not even flinch..The fit/finish is that good


In short the gen3 is just an all around better track car no questions asked..With the looks depending on what you want..



The gen3 it's self is a much better car..The problem is that a gen3 will average 12.0 at 120 mph while a gen2 will average 12.2 at 118 mph...Makeing it only slightly faster and despite it being able to do everything else so much better...Die hard viper fans are gonna always prefer the gen2 body style thats almosty as fast as a gen 3 rather than buy the gen3...


Like i said..ive had both and could never see my self back in a gen2 after owning a gen3..Other than for nostologic reasons...

Now to compare a gen2 to a gen4 is just insane..Unless everyone else just had a differant breed of gen2 than my 99 I dont even see how a comparison can be made????

A 118 mph oon average trapping car vrs a 127 mph on average trapping car...

A car that ownes the ring against a car that has it's hands full with a 2002 C5Z06 on a track

A car that dynos 410 rwhp against a car that dynos 540 rwhp

Sorry if I ruffle any feathers....But somthing just isnt adding up
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 10:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
some of you guys are killing me...

I had a 99 gen 2 and a 2003 gen3..

With KN filter and smooth tubes the gen2 dynoed 428 rwhp
With KN filter and roller rockers the gen3 dynoed 459 rwhp

Gen 3 was notiably faster...I tested them both and was 3 tenths and 2 mph faster through the 1/4 mile than the gen2..

gen 3 braked SIGNIFICANTLY better...

Gen3 interior was SIGNIFICANTLY better....

Gen3 handling was SIGNIFICANTLY better...

The looks department just really depends on you...I think the GTS looks kooler..But I also remember how the body lines didnt match up with huge gaps I was constanlt readjusting and headlights that were constantly yellowing. I was a lil embarrassed to park next to a friends C6Z06 or another friends e55AMG in the gen2 because up close yopu could really see some of the flaws that the gen2's had from the factory....Now the gen3 srt10 on the other hand..I would park that thing next to a Ferrari/lambo and not even flinch..The fit/finish is that good

In short the gen3 is just an all around better track car no questions asked..With the looks depending on what you want..



The gen3 it's self is a much better car..The problem is that a gen3 will average 12.0 at 120 mph while a gen2 will average 12.2 at 118 mph...Makeing it only slightly faster and despite it being able to do everything else so much better...Die hard viper fans are gonna always prefer the gen2 body style thats almosty as fast as a gen 3 rather than buy the gen3...


Like i said..ive had both and could never see my self back in a gen2 after owning a gen3..Other than for nostologic reasons...

Now to compare a gen2 to a gen4 is just insane..Unless everyone else just had a differant breed of gen2 than my 99 I dont even see how a comparison can be made????

A 118 mph oon average trapping car vrs a 127 mph on average trapping car...

A car that ownes the ring against a car that has it's hands full with a 2002 C5Z06 on a track

A car that dynos 410 rwhp against a car that dynos 540 rwhp

Sorry if I ruffle any feathers....But somthing just isnt adding up
Never had any of those problems with my 97 GTS. With that said, I don't think it's just the die hard viper fans that like the GTS style better. Alot of people actually prefer the GTS styling compared to the SRT10..



Last edited by Buddha; November 22nd, 2009 at 10:23 PM.
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 10:36 PM   #15
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lets be honest here..That GTS looks dated as hell next to those two cars... But too some people thats a great thing..

my nsx looks like a 80's supercar to me....But I like that about it....

But I defiently preferred the gen3 to the gen2 in every single way....

too each their own as the gen2 will always have a special place in the heart of many......But within the first weak of haveing my gen3 I was sold...


You still have the exclusivness/rarity of the gen 2 as well as still a BEAUTIFUL car that still has the raw power ect of the gen2's plus a lil more..

Without the cheesy interior/body gaps ect.

Thats just my opinion..When I had a gen2 I supported it as being just as good or better than the srt10's....But I changed my mind real quick...
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 10:50 PM   #16
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lets be honest here..That GTS looks dated as hell next to those two cars... But too some people thats a great thing..


The GTS. Especially the B&Ws ,will always have that timeless look. Now,I'm not just going by what my friends are saying. The ones that own the Z06 and the GTR, but alot of car enthusiasts from the big car shows in Monterey have said this. Some of them cannot believe that my Viper is an 11 year old car. Some have also said that they don't like the looks of the new Viper, because the back end lights looks a little like a Dodge Intrepids. Not to mention not having any round bulges/flares..
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 07:51 AM   #17
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The GTS. Especially the B&Ws ,will always have that timeless look. Now,I'm not just going by what my friends are saying. The ones that own the Z06 and the GTR, but alot of car enthusiasts from the big car shows in Monterey have said this. Some of them cannot believe that my Viper is an 11 year old car. Some have also said that they don't like the looks of the new Viper, because the back end lights looks a little like a Dodge Intrepids. Not to mention not having any round bulges/flares..
They would be correct.

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Old November 23rd, 2009, 08:11 PM   #18
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Thanks for the write up. I'm considering buying an aftermarket extended used car warranty on mine with comprehensive coverage. Should save me a few bucks in the long run-hopefully. Any recommnedations if you know any company that sells used car warranty?
I just bought a Chrysler Max Care warranty from these guys (Extended Auto Warranty for your Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep Vehicle.* Fast, Free online quotes!), it's a dealership in Iowa. I called around, they had the best price by far!
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Old November 25th, 2009, 04:50 AM   #19
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Ive got two friends....

one owns a couple 1000 rwhp supras/nsx/c6z06..

The other a 9 second GTS viper and e55 amg..

the first guy wouldnt be caught dead in a pre srt10 and used to rag on my 99 rt10 all the time...the other guy wouldnt trade for the srt10 for the world...


But I now own neighter...And without a doubt I would take a srt10 vert over a rt10 without even a flinch...i would take the srt10 vert over the gts after 3 minutes of thinking it over...And I would take a srt10 coupe over any of them without even a moments hesitation...


The coupes have been out since 2006 and I have seen O-N-E in my life period..And it was the dealership
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Old November 25th, 2009, 05:30 AM   #20
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the SRT looks way to similar to a vette IMO. the GTS looks better than a RT.

GTS>RT>SRT

also the prices of them used seem to confirm what i just said. seems the gen2 GTS holds value better than the RT which holds better than the SRT. but i could be wrong on that part
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