I sure hope everyone has their popcorn, because this show keeps getting better!!
Put it all back together today with the new steel flywheel (that was too thin and the bolts bottomed out) after buying new bolts that were 1.25" instead of 1.5". Torqued, installed, checked, double checked.....now the damn engine won't even turn over!! It's like it locked up, but I know it isn't because the flywheel was turning when I was loosening the bolts to remove it. I'm thinking the whole problem with the FW Spec sent me is they may have sent the wrong one. It would explain why it is too thin and now possibly in a bind. I know I am sick of pulling it out. I will call Spec Monday to see what they want to do. I may even see if they will agree to either reimburse me for my time, or pay to have a shop pull it one more time.
One tech question though....the FW bolts call for 55 ft/lbs, but with all the talk about the bolts backing out I went a teeny bit more (100 ft/lbs). Could I have overtightened them? I don't see where that would make it bind, but nothing surprises me at this point...
99Rt - thanks for the offer, but I have two aftermarket now. Alum and steel, both from Spec. But i do appreciate the offer.
Just pulled it down again and its not the flywheel hitting anything. The engine is definitely locked for some reason. I don't know if it's vapor locked and just need to pull the plugs to relieve it, or the timing jumped somehow and caused internal damage.
I need someone to review the following timeline to see if anything stands out:
The very last time the engine was running it was erratic with new OEM sensor and rpm was surging
I pulled the trans and the engine was turning by hand while trying to break the FW bolts loose
Installed the new steel FW and put everything back together
Tried starting the car and it only clunked. The engine did not try to spin at all.
Checked at the inspection plate with pry bar and engine would not budge either direction
Pulled the transmission for the 3rd time to see if the FW was contacting anywhere and verified it was not
That is everything that happened since the last time the car ran. Other than the erratic coughing and backfiring through the exhaust it seemed okay. No knocking or abnormal noise anywhere. When the viper tech came and scanned the PCM he verified the crank sensor was getting intermittent signals, which we already knew from the codes. He also unplugged the cam sensor and cranked the car over multiple times for a reason he didn't explain.
Is there any way in all of this the timing could be jumped or that would cause the engine to lock up? Could it be vapor locked from turning the FW by hand while removing the bolts? There is nothing else I can think of that may have contributed. I am at the end of my rope with this. Absolutely the worst experience I have ever had just changing a damn clutch. If my ex, or whoever she let beat the hell out of my car, did all of this damage I may just lose my shit on them. I have already put out a 1000 dollar reward to anybody that can produce a video showing what they did. I know somebody filmed it. Pisses me the fuck off!!!!
The starter meshes. The problem is even with the starter removed i cannot turn the flywheel by hand with a pry tool on the teeth. I have spun it many times like this, but now it wont move.
I also thought about the bolt length. They were too long for the thinner flywheel flange on the Spec steel unit i just got. OEM bolts are .437-20x1.5", which is what i have. I got shorter bolts to work with the new steel FW. They torqued good and i even loosened them about 1/8th" each and tried to turn the FW before i removed it this time. Still would not budge.
The bolt holes are not the through-type like a typical crank flange. They have a bottom, which was what the bolts were bottoming out on before. I thought that was the problem too, but i just looked again and the holes are about 1.25" deep but do not go all the way through. So there is no way the bolts could hit the main journals inside.
I also just pulled all the spark plugs and didnt find any with pressure or liquid behind them. I was really hoping i would. But i am about to put the crank back on and see if it spins now. Maybe i relieved some pressure on one of the cylinders. I honestly dont think that is the case because i cant move the crank either way. If it was hydro or vapor locked i wouldnt be able to compress further but should be able to back it off correct? So it should turn in one direction if that was the case.
Could the timing have jumped? Is this an interference design? But again,i should be to back away if that was it too? Idk.....so frustrated!! How the hell could a simple clutch job turn into all this??!! I promise i know enough about what im doing to get into trouble...how the hell could it have cranked and ran but now just lock up without it running since and all i did was change a freaking flywheel???
Everybody can now laugh and call me stupid!! I just put the aluminum FW back on to see what would happen and i can turn the engine again. It was the bolts! Even though i got them 1/8th shorter they were still too long and hitting what i thought was the back of the bolt hole but is actually part of the block or journal. The tolerance on the crankshaft end play is only .02" so there isnt a visible gap at the back of the flange.
I will get new bolts tomorrow and be up and running by evening. Whew!! But a little disappointed....i thought i had an excuse to put a Roe cam and head kit in the engine 😐 But im sure it isnt over yet. Knowing my luck i will have another dilemma by then.
Can anyone tell me what is directly behind the crank flange? It looks like some kind of diamond plate type surface, like on some head gaskets. With the flange recessed, and the rear main seal and retainer bolted in, what would you find if you removed the plate like when changing the rear seal? I am worried now that I found the issue that I could have damaged something in there by torquing the FW bolts against whatever it is contacting. I don't see any reason to be concerned such as oil leaking or obvious cracks anywhere. Just wondering if I may caused more problems or need to inspect something before I go back with it again?
Its ALIVE!!! Bout damn time! It was the stock length bolts in the thinner Spec steel FW. I did manage to snap some pictures of inside the holes and i can see the bolt marks where they tightened against the block but i dont think they were long enough to do any damage. Just left a very small indention in the block casting.
I will be wrapping up tomorrow with last minute once-overs and a detail inside and out. Then im off to Biloxi for a week! I will leave this open until i officially finish tomorrow, because as yall can see, its never dull when my luck plays a role. If it can still go wrong, it will. And i have only started it and let idle for about a minute. Haven't tested the clutch or had a chance to see if the upgraded PS hoses will work or not.
Thanks again to all of you. I hope this circus of a show will at least benefit somebody one day and prevent them from using factory bolts on aftermarket equipment that is not cut to design specs. And please stay away from those aftermarket sensors!!! Two in a row would not read. They were Dorman from Oreilleys. OEM was only a little more and i bought two of them if anyone needs one and cant find them.
I will update one last time (hopefully) tomorrow then close this nightmare of a thread! Thanks to those who contributed. Ilearned more here witb you guys than 4 years with the 'other' club. Thanks.
The car is running good, but a couple of concerns, especially after reading ramtuffs last comment. I have an odd vibration that comes and goes, more like a cavitation. And i get a whiny sound when i release the clutch, which i think is some air still in the hydraulics. The pedal engages about and inch off the floor. I would prefer it to be a little higher than that but it is a clean release without drag and clamps good and even with zero chatter. Maybe if it is air and i finish bleeding both of these(pedal and noise) will rectify?
The vibration is more of a concern. It isnt bad at all. Just enough for me to say i dont remember it ever doing that. It does it regardless if im on the clutch pedal or off. It is not noticeable while driving, only sitting at idle and revving. Does this sound like it could be the #6 main being pushed too far? Nothing would surprise me at this point.
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