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Old October 10th, 2020, 08:48 PM   #41
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I fucking give up!!! Piece of shit won't run now!!!! Apparently the aluminum flywheel must have also gotten too hot and warped because after I finished detailing and tried to start it up for a test run it threw a code about camshaft position sensor. So I pulled it and found the CSP had a lot of contact on the face!! Replaced with a new one and now it won't even start at all.

Is there a relearn procedure after replacing this sensor? Can I shim it enough to run to at least drive it off a cliff?!! FUCK!!!!!
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Old October 11th, 2020, 08:35 AM   #42
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03? I think you mean crankshaft position sensor.
Sounds like it’s time for a new flywheel.
I hate to be captain obvious but with the type of issues you had (which are not normal) the flywheel should have been checked, you know, while it was apart.....
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Old October 11th, 2020, 08:37 AM   #43
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Revisit post #2.
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Old October 11th, 2020, 03:09 PM   #44
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I did mean crankshaft. I replaced it and now all the car will do is spin about one revolution and stop itself from turning over. I have done mechanic work my whole life and I have never had anything give me this many problems. I did check the flywheel, but I had to remove the starter ring to get to the nuts holding the friction ring on. I marked everything, on the ring, the flywheel, and even the table to make sure everything went back into its original position. I hand tightened(without proper torque, just by feel) the ring back on, and went around 2.5 times until nothing moved. I guess I still didn't get it pulled down enough in one spot. I got back under it last night and checked the tightness through the inspection cover and did find three loose bolts right where the only witness marks were. The runout is minimal while spinning by hand, so I dont think it is warped versus the starter ring just not seated fully. And now I don't know what damage has been done. Did it jump time, would a reset/relearn take care of it, is the flywheel actually in need of replacing or even 8f i do I have other issues??

Welcome to hell?? Nah...welcome to my world.
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Old October 11th, 2020, 03:32 PM   #45
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Two words....Dial indicator
Takes the guesswork out of it.
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Old October 12th, 2020, 07:45 AM   #46
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See my last post about runout....

I checked, with dial indicator, at the face of the flywheel just inside the inspection cover. Runout was <.023". I wouldn't think that would cause this.

Can anybody tell me that is familiar with Fidanza, could it be possible that I got the locking lugs out of order? I know the sensor detects the second gap in each sequence to know when to inject and fire. But is it only looking at an air gap, or is some of the lugs carrying a magnet for it to detect? Because after replacing with a new one it will not even start. At least it would start and run rough before I changed it.

Also, what is allowable depth tolerance on the sensor? Could the shim i used be holding too far off? Even though its only about as thick as a credit card? I can't find anything on allowable tolerances for it.

And lastly, if the flywheel only had that little deflection, and if I correct the depth, would you still recommend I change the flywheel? It seems to me it should run at least. I'm no fan of warpage, especially at rpm. But I'm also no fan of having to tear it back down for that if not needed.
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Old October 12th, 2020, 08:12 AM   #47
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The shim could be enough to not read correctly.
I don’t have any info on the fidenza for you.
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Old October 12th, 2020, 08:29 AM   #48
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The Gen 2 sensor is supposed to be inserted to the standoff depth of a parts tag or match book cover. Credit card would be about 3x too thick.
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Old October 12th, 2020, 09:15 PM   #49
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Gotcha! And I love how yall break it down for me! Lol! Much easier than trying to find a matchbook cover or a credit card to figure out what .015 vs .030 looks like!

I will try to give it some proper attention tomorrow. Thanks for the input.
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Old October 13th, 2020, 09:52 PM   #50
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Update:

So I took the shim out, rechecked tightness on all the bolts, rechecked the runout and its within .003", painted the face of the new sensor with a permanent marker, tightened back in place, spun the flywheel 2X by hand, pulled the sensor back off and had no marks.....and the SOB still won't crank!!! I am at the point that its either a bad sensor off the shelf (cant try my old one because it was hitting and got damaged) or I have caused it to jump time and fuck up a $20k engine!!! If thats the case....I DO have full coverage and insurance does pay for stupid!!! (I don't know how that tree fell on it. I cut it to fall the other way). Or I'm about to have a real nice parts car for one of you REAL CHEAP!!!! Any thoughts at this point?
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Old October 14th, 2020, 03:44 PM   #51
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Check for 5v to the sensor.

The Auto Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relays are mounted externally, but turned on and off by the PCM.

The crankshaft position sensor signal is sent to the PCM. If the PCM does not receive the signal within approximately one second of engine cranking, it deactivates the ASD relay and fuel pump relay. When these relays deactivate, power is shut off the fuel injectors, ignition coils, heating element in the upstream oxygen sensors, hydraulic fan solenoid and the fuel pump.

The PCM contains a voltage converter that changes battery voltage to a regulated 5 volts direct current to power the camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor and vehicle speed sensor. The PCM also provides a 5 volt direct current supply for the manifold absolute pressure sensor and throttle position sensor.
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Old October 14th, 2020, 11:53 PM   #52
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WHOA!!!! "Vehicle Speed Sensor"????!!!! That just set off al ight bulb. Let me give you the rundown on what I have done since pulling the transmission.

The first thing was the clutch actuator. I accidentally pulled the wires out of the VERY short plug and got tired of trying to splice them back in so I tied them together, thinking that the only problem would be I could now start the car in gear without pressing the clutch in if I wasn't careful. Is that the ONLY problem it would cause though....??

I also installed the skip shift eliminator. I pulled the harness plug off the solenoid, installed the blank plug that came with it, plugged the harness into the eliminator plug and tie wrapped out of the way. HOWEVER....and this may be my problem...

I have 4 plugs on the transmission. Starting on the left side, there is the skip shift plug, next the VSS that is hanging by a pigtail from the transmission, then the reverse lockout toward the rear. On the passenger side is the reverse indicator that turns the back up lights on (as I understand it). My problem going back with the trans is I could only find three plugs on my harness. The shorter skip shift was obvious, as was the longest reverse indicator that went on top and to other side for the reverse indicator. That leaves two more plugs and only one harness plug. I plugged the last one into the reverse lockout, which left the VSS unplugged completely. Could THIS be my problem???

Can anyone confirm if there are 3 or 4 harness plugs, and if only 3 does the last one go to the VSS or the reverse lockout? I have searched all under the car clear back up to the master cylinder I changed thinking I may have pulled one of the harness wires out with the hydraulic line. Not there. I hate not being to go right back with something for this reason. I can't remember what was plugged to the VSS when I took it down. Can anyone confirm??

It would both suck and be a good thing if I either have the plugs in the wrong spot or if the VSS has to be plugged in instead of the reverse lockout.

Thanks,
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Old October 15th, 2020, 12:01 AM   #53
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In other news...

I did go get another new sensor today. It does the same thing. The starter will turn the engine about half a turn then you have to let off the button before it will respond again.

I did install the old damaged sensor and the engine will crank over and over with it while spitting and sputtering through the exhaust. But at least it acts like it wants to start, but with the timing out of whack. Could I have gotten TWO bad sensors off the shelf? They directly crossed over from the stock one to Dorman at Oreilley's. I think I will be getting a new OEM sensor before this is over. I don't understand why two new ones wouldn't do what a damaged OEM one would.

I also have a guy coming Sunday to run a scan on the car to see what he can find. He was the lead Viper tech at a dealership in Baton Rouge for years and has done work to other vehicles of mine as well as the Viper. Actually, he was the one that installed this transmission 5 years and 12000 miles ago when it grenaded 2nd and the MOPAR warranty replaced it. Hopefully he can help figure it out. I am also waiting on him before ordering a new flywheel. Going back to steel this time though!
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Old October 15th, 2020, 06:14 AM   #54
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The speedometer runs off the wheel speed sensors not the transmission sensor.

If you read my post, you would see that if the pcm sees no input from the crank sensor within 1 second it will not start. It sounds as though you have a sensor issue and they may not be a direct replacement (possibly not close enough to the flywheel). Your original one could still be damaged giving you erratic signals causing your problem.

Last edited by Ramtuff; October 15th, 2020 at 06:21 AM.
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Old October 17th, 2020, 03:49 AM   #55
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I understand what you're saying about the speedometer and where it gets its signal. But can anyone confirm for me how many wires and plugs there are going to the trans, 3 or 4?
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Old October 17th, 2020, 09:39 AM   #56
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4 on trans, 3 wires from body.
Reverse lockout
Skip shift
Reverse lamp
The speed sensor remains disconnected.
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Old October 18th, 2020, 09:38 AM   #57
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Thank you! That's what I have. I'm gonna get it ready to pull again and order a new flywheel.
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Old October 18th, 2020, 10:01 AM   #58
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Pretty sure you owe RamTuff a handjob now.
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Old October 18th, 2020, 10:39 PM   #59
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Why would you change the flywheel when you found “loose bolts” that may have ruined your sensor and it’s flat and worked before your clutch issue? Still sounds like a sensor issue.

P.S. LOL 8.0!
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Old October 23rd, 2020, 11:02 AM   #60
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I wanted to get rid of the issues with the aluminum all the way around to go back with steel. The starter gear ring was just the straw that broke my back. Spec sent me a new CNC machined steel for a discount. I put it in and found the bolts bottomed out before the flywheel tightened to the crank. The flange is about 3/8" thick at the bolt hub, vs the aluminum being about 1/2" thick. We (Spec and I) thought Fidanza may have included longer bolts with their FW but I bought OEM bolts at 1.5" and they are the same length as I already had. So the flywheel is simply too thin to work with stock bolts. I am trying to contact Spec this morning to see if I can add washers(either locking or Belville), get shorter bolts, or if they made a mistake and owe me a flywheel that is thicker.

The good news is I bought the new sensors from Dodge and tested it. The car runs better than before. It surges rpms as the signal goes in and out, so it is gonna be the sensors, combined with the defection in the flywheel that is causing the problem. If I do use the steel FW, would anyone be interested in a Fidanza with brand new friction plate but an issue with deflection? I will let it go VERY cheap before I just throw it away. I'm sure it can be readjusted to run true. It's the starter ring gear that is the issue, not the FW itself. That's a $900 unit that I may be parting with at a fraction of that. If anyone is interested and wants to take a chance with it please PM me. I would rather see somebody be able to fix it and use it than see it go to waste.

Thanks,
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