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3.55 Gears - No Traction in 1st?!?

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3.55 Gears - No Traction in 1st?!?
Old June 9th, 2019, 03:45 PM   #1
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3.55 Gears - No Traction in 1st?!?

Hi all,

Recently upgraded to 3.55 gears and Iím not finding any way to apply WOT at any point in first gear without breaking the rear end loose. Higher speed, lower speed, slowly increasing throttle to WO, doesnít seem to matter. Also losing traction at WOT in 2nd at times. I have searched extensively in the forums and this does not sound like a typical result. Even guys with 3.73ís make it sound like they get better grip than this. Itís fun to slide the rear end around, donít get me wrong, but Iím surprised that this is such a common mod if this is the typical result.

Car is an 03 w 50,000 miles, minor bolt-onís only. K&N, catless, catback, Michelin Super Sports that are only 2 years old, had very recent date stamps when purchased, approx 6,000 miles on them, lots of tread left and look very good. They seemed to grip endlessly with the 3.07ís. They are at 25 psi right now, so not over-inflated either.

Was cutting 1.9 60 ft times for fun last season at the track and [email protected] in 2,200 ft DAís but now I spin so much I canít put together a run that doesnít involve excessive wheel spin in 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd some. Itís insane. Iím utterly shocked. Is this normal?
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Old June 9th, 2019, 05:27 PM   #2
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Stock differential? The hydro-loc is not very strong. Is only 1 wheel spinning?
Did you put in the friction modifier when new oil was put in?
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Old June 9th, 2019, 06:03 PM   #3
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Yes, stock differential. Yes, installed friction modifier when we put new gear oil in at 600 miles. It starts laying two identical black patches every time I get to WOT in first.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 09:42 PM   #4
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Tires are probably just getting old and losing effectiveness. You can always step up to DR's.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 12:46 AM   #5
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So given that the two responses I’ve received so far are suggestive of differential or tire faults, I’m assuming that my results are not normal? Everybody else with 3.55’s is able to hook and go WOT in first at some point?
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Old June 11th, 2019, 07:04 AM   #6
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Your differential sounds like it’s working correctly, there is a big difference between 3.07 and 3.55 in these cars. You need to find the correct rpm and throttle to launch at with your tires or get some stickier tires.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 08:03 AM   #7
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On my old Gen 2 that was about 475hp at the wheels 1st would spin badly if the road and tires were cool. Once it warmed up it would haze the tires a bit but hooked up well with the PSS.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 03:25 PM   #8
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Which tires and the date code

Second do the rear tires hop or is the spin violent shaking
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Old June 11th, 2019, 06:33 PM   #9
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Saskatoon might be the problem. What is the air temp when you have the problem?

Signed, a smug ex-Canadian.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 01:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramtuff View Post
Your differential sounds like it’s working correctly, there is a big difference between 3.07 and 3.55 in these cars. You need to find the correct rpm and throttle to launch at with your tires or get some stickier tires.
I 100% agree with you Ramtuff. I completely expected the launch to get more tricky and require some relearning with 15% more torque. I'm more concerned with the idea that I can't use WOT at ANY point in first gear. Not from a roll, not mid-gear, and not even if I slowly increase throttle to WO. Anything more than around 3/4 throttle and I'm spinning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyb View Post
On my old Gen 2 that was about 475hp at the wheels 1st would spin badly if the road and tires were cool. Once it warmed up it would haze the tires a bit but hooked up well with the PSS.
This is something I've been thinking about. I've had this car for 3 years, two years with PSS's on the car, the first year with Invo's. Never had serious traction issues at any temp really, but this may have fooled me into thinking I should have relatively normal traction irregardless of temperature. When I was at the track last Friday it was around 60 F, and when I tested on Saturday on the streets it was again around 60 F. Maybe that temp was ok with PSS's with 307's and not with PSS's and 355's. They are calling for temps in the 75-80 F range over the next two days so I will retest in those temps and report back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001GTS View Post
Which tires and the date code

Second do the rear tires hop or is the spin violent shaking
Tires are Michelin Pilot Super Sports with around 6,000 miles on them. Lots of tread left and tread wearing evenly. Tires purchased close to two years ago. Fronts were produced 45th week of 2015 (4515), rears were produced 11th week of 2016 (1116).

I'm not getting wheel hop - it's a smooth spinning of the tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundiego View Post
Saskatoon might be the problem. What is the air temp when you have the problem?

Signed, a smug ex-Canadian.
15 C / 60 F. As I stated above, this may well be the issue. If the tires and diff are good and yet my results are atypical, then I don't know what else it could be. I'll retest in 24-26 C / 75-80 F and report back.

Last edited by dkalthoff; June 12th, 2019 at 01:16 AM. Reason: missed a post I wanted to include in my reply
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Old June 12th, 2019, 08:14 AM   #11
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I had 3.55s with a few more bolts ons than you, but was close enough. 3.55s are a big difference. You can upgrade your tires or you can just learn to roll into it.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 04:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkalthoff View Post
So given that the two responses Iíve received so far are suggestive of differential or tire faults, Iím assuming that my results are not normal? Everybody else with 3.55ís is able to hook and go WOT in first at some point?
Back when I had my '06 Coupe I did 3.55's. Also had intake, cat-back and a DC Tune running on PS2's. Car had decent traction in 1st once the tires AND the road surface warmed up.


Similar results with my 2nd '08 Coupe. 3.55's, Mopar PCM, High-Flows/Corsa/K&N on PS2's.


If the roads are a little cool - forget about hooking in 1st on the street.
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Old July 16th, 2019, 12:30 AM   #13
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Been experimenting over the last month since my last post. Short answer is that the PSS’s are very temperature sensitive with 355’s - something I did not notice with 307’s. When the tires are cold I have no ability to use WOT in first at any point, and when the tires are good and warmed up I can use WOT in first once hooked up and to redline. And I can even launch decently now if the tires are properly warmed up. With the tires good and warmed up I’ve even had excellent traction on pretty cold pavement, so it’s definitely more about tire temperature than road surface temperature (but not saying road temp is irrelevant).

Not surprisingly it is harder to launch correctly at the drag strip, and I am still learning and improving with each pass. With 307’s I used to drive around the water box, clean the tires off, then stage. 1.91 second 60 foot, 12.1 @118. If I do that with 355’s it is practically undrivable, as there is no ability to use WOT in first without spinning. I now need to drive into water box, short’ish’ burnout (no smoke) to heat tires, then stage. It’s similar to drive as with 307’s but easier to lose grip. Best 60 foot is 2.04 so far, best 1/4 mile time 12.3 @ 118. There’s room for improvement so I’ll be working on that throughout the rest of the summer. Bigger burnouts, different launch rpms, letting clutch out at differing rates, and tire pressures are all going to get played with and optimized. If the theory is that 60 foot difference x 3 equals ET difference then 11.9 should be possible if I get 60 foot back down to 1.91. That would be in line with what my expectations were before I changed the gears so now I have to see if I can get there 👍

Many thanks to everyone who replied. I’ll post an update at the conclusion of the summer so any other Viper owners considering 355’s have some real drag racing data/results to ponder.
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Old July 16th, 2019, 08:00 AM   #14
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I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but, play around with your tire pressures.

You can get a lot of different traction/results with the same tire, by lowering pressures.

Especially if you try drag radials.
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