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Update on Kenny's Viper

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Update on Kenny's Viper
Old May 11th, 2007, 04:23 PM   #1
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Update on Kenny's Viper

I'm starting this new thread to document the findings of my new tuner as my Viper is being brought up to the performance level I originally expected. My purpose here is not to bash anyone, only present the truth and let each member of the Viper community draw their own conclusion regarding the quality of the build I received for my 28K.

If you have a problem with this subject, feel free to avoid the thread and use the tuner of your choice. I'm not here to argue, the pictures speak largely for themselves.

***************************************

The first 2 photos show parts of my $3,500 Fuel System Upgrade. The first photo shows the fuel pump bolted to the frame of my car inches away from the driveshaft and the fuel line running inches away parallel to the driveshaft that did not have any safety loops around it. The second photo shows silver duct tape holding the fuel lines together. The connection was easily found because the duct tape was not even trimmed.

The 3rd photo shows the incorrect reach spark plug my former tuner put in my $6,500 Jeff Morys Striker heads compared to the spark plugs that came with the heads and Jeff Morys told my former tuner to use with the heads.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:30 PM   #2
 
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I don't want to fuel this fire again, but the fuel line is absurd.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:33 PM   #3
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Please bear in mind that my engine was completed and put back in my Viper around April 6, 2006 - a date long before I made any negative posts about my former tuner.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:36 PM   #4
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Kenny, since you are starting this thread and "showing what is up", you should also note that the 28k was for much more than the engine work.

The "correct" way to do this is list the $ amount for the engine work (fuel system included) by itself. The 28k figure is misleading.



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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:39 PM   #5
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I will be showing photos of the entire job and not just the engine work.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #6
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FYI, some put tape on the ends of fuel lines so when they are handled you don't get jabbed from any stainless frays. Almost every hose connector has some form of tape concealed under the fitting, keep the stainless from fraying...
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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #7
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I take it UGR is correcting the problems for you?
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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #8
 
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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:45 PM   #9
 
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Old May 11th, 2007, 06:01 PM   #10
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Those are not at all the correct plugs or even acceptable plugs to use in that application PERIOD. We have installed and use many of these Striker Heads from JM and they have worked perfect with NO tuning issues. For those of you who are wondering about using the plugs Kenny had installed in his STRIKER heads here is something to consider. Intake ports, combustion chambers, piston tops, and spark plugs are all designed together as a system to ensure good combustion. If one of the elements of the systems is changed, then the combustion system cannot function properly. In this case, installing a 3/4" reach plug in a combustion chamber designed to use a 1" plug leaves the spark plug electrode gap sitting in the spark plug hole, whereas the combustion chamber has been designed to have the spark plug electrodes protruding into the chamber. A hole is not a good place to initiate combustion, so the initial flame propagation (if the plug is able to light the mixture at all) will be sluggish. Sluggish burn rates will have the effect of retarding the combustion phasing relative to the piston motion, and increase the variability in combustion from cycle to cycle. Increased combustion variability will manifest itself in a vehicle as an engine that idles rough, perhaps has trouble starting, and doesn't make as much power as it would otherwise be capable of making. To summarize, a spark plug with shorter reach than the cylinder head is designed for will leave the spark plug gap in a hole, combustion quality will suffer greatly, and the engine will run poorly. The easiest solution here is to simply install the correct spark plug and reap the combustion benefits. Refer to the pictures to observe what I am talking about. I would *NOT* put the correct plugs in this car and try to drive it on it's present tune. Please see pictures below as one shows the 3/4 plug that is in Kenny's Striker Heads and the other pictures show the CORRECT plug that is supposed to be in Kenny's heads!




--------------------
Underground Racing
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Old May 11th, 2007, 06:16 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=AMong;848752]more pics :

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Old May 11th, 2007, 10:52 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUN RA KAT View Post
Those are not at all the correct plugs or even acceptable plugs to use in that application PERIOD. We have installed and use many of these Striker Heads from JM and they have worked perfect with NO tuning issues. For those of you who are wondering about using the plugs Kenny had installed in his STRIKER heads here is something to consider. Intake ports, combustion chambers, piston tops, and spark plugs are all designed together as a system to ensure good combustion. If one of the elements of the systems is changed, then the combustion system cannot function properly. In this case, installing a 3/4" reach plug in a combustion chamber designed to use a 1" plug leaves the spark plug electrode gap sitting in the spark plug hole, whereas the combustion chamber has been designed to have the spark plug electrodes protruding into the chamber. A hole is not a good place to initiate combustion, so the initial flame propagation (if the plug is able to light the mixture at all) will be sluggish. Sluggish burn rates will have the effect of retarding the combustion phasing relative to the piston motion, and increase the variability in combustion from cycle to cycle. Increased combustion variability will manifest itself in a vehicle as an engine that idles rough, perhaps has trouble starting, and doesn't make as much power as it would otherwise be capable of making. To summarize, a spark plug with shorter reach than the cylinder head is designed for will leave the spark plug gap in a hole, combustion quality will suffer greatly, and the engine will run poorly. The easiest solution here is to simply install the correct spark plug and reap the combustion benefits. Refer to the pictures to observe what I am talking about. I would *NOT* put the correct plugs in this car and try to drive it on it's present tune. Please see pictures below as one shows the 3/4 plug that is in Kenny's Striker Heads and the other pictures show the CORRECT plug that is supposed to be in Kenny's heads!



--------------------
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just a guess here, but unless Kenny is referring now to himself in the third person, I am assuming Kevin posted this under his account? WAR INFRACTION
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Old May 11th, 2007, 11:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMong View Post
more pics :

CENSORED TO SAVE YOUR EYES
AMong, you missed the best ones Man Boobs Kenny ever posted---his fat ass in a baby pool with a rubber ducky and his 18 year old daughter in a bikini next to his Viper. Who posts such things? Apparently a guy who believes in jazz musicians being abducted by aliens---the one and only Sun Ra Kat.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 11:25 PM   #14
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Not to stop anyone's fun here, but I would like to see this thread runs its course without all the juvenile stuff take place. We all witnessed the saga before turn into the mess it did, lets see this one to the end cleanly since SRK is at least in a position to show what is wrong with his car and also has a reputable tuner standing behind him to validate his claims unlike before. It may open others eyes to what really goes on in this business.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 11:28 PM   #15
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I feel for your problems Kenny and wish you all the best. Underground should get you fixed no doubt.

BUT please, what is with the pictures??????
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Old May 11th, 2007, 11:31 PM   #16
 
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Not to stop anyone's fun here, but I would like to see this thread runs its course without all the juvenile stuff take place. We all witnessed the saga before turn into the mess it did, lets see this one to the end cleanly since SRK is at least in a position to show what is wrong with his car and also has a reputable tuner standing behind him to validate his claims unlike before. It may open others eyes to what really goes on in this business.
In fairness to the "other" tuner (Larry) many have used him and are quite pleased with their results so labeling this as sort or the norm for this guys work isn't really fair. I think every tuer has experienced gremlins in some way shape or form. It's just some situations get handled publically and others privately. Kenny likes this way.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 11:42 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by v10kingsnake View Post
In fairness to the "other" tuner (Larry) many have used him and are quite pleased with their results so labeling this as sort or the norm for this guys work isn't really fair. I think every tuer has experienced gremlins in some way shape or form. It's just some situations get handled publically and others privately. Kenny likes this way.
The difference between this car and any other car that Larry has worked on is he had this car for a year and half, charged this guy $28k and from the initial couple pictures, looks like he fucked the guy over and delivered a piece of crap. Do you see it any other way? I don't see how you could see it any other way. If I were Larry that car would have made more power then promised and would have been spotless in the build because he knew it was going to be gone over by SRK with a fine tooth comb. I don't want to get in any arguments with anyone here over it as I am not persoanlly involved, I would just like to see what was delivered to SRK and hear UR take on what he paid for and was delivered to him.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 12:56 PM   #18
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FYI, some put tape on the ends of fuel lines so when they are handled you don't get jabbed from any stainless frays. Almost every hose connector has some form of tape concealed under the fitting, keep the stainless from fraying...
The tape is placed around the cut line to keep the braid from fraying during the cut and until the socket is slipped onto the hose. Next, the nipple is inserted and the tape is supposed to come off before tightening the socket onto the nipple.

That joining of the fuel line to the OEM quick connector is beyond horrible. The installer should have screwed an AN male adapter into the manifold and run the fuel line all the way up to it, terminating with a female AN connector. If he chose to retain the OEM quick connector, he should have brazed a female tube to male AN adapter in where the hose clamps are.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #19
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Kenny, I think you will find a lot more support posting facts and pics, ESP with Underground handling this for you. Anyone on here would be pissed for what has happened to your car in my opinion. To the others reading this post of mine, I know you Kenny to be a great guy and contrary to a lot of peoples' opinion, Kenny is a good customer of mine too and one I would cal a friend.

Kenny has bought a few things from my computer company and when he did have a legitimate probpem I helped him and he was grateful and kind. He handled things perfectly and I can vouch for him for that. I can also say he is a wonderful person to talk to and a BIG guy, and making fun of folks over the Internet, however fun, isn't my cup of tea unless it is in good fun. Some attacks I have seen on previous posts and threads are offensive to me and I would like personally to see all issues and sides come to light.

In summary, pictures are worth a 1000 words. This includes dyno graphs and with credible 3rd party vendors/tuners backing claims from Kenny, the light is getting brighter.

My two cents and duct tape at the ready to work on your cars,

Gary
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Old May 12th, 2007, 04:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
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FYI, some put tape on the ends of fuel lines so when they are handled you don't get jabbed from any stainless frays. Almost every hose connector has some form of tape concealed under the fitting, keep the stainless from fraying...
Frays? Maybe if you cut the line with your teeth!If you have the proper line cutting tools you need no tape especially duct tape! Just a rookies mistake I guess.
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