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01 GTS Wont start

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01 GTS Wont start
Old September 9th, 2019, 01:15 PM   #1
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01 GTS Wont start

So, car has been down for major upgrades (Self built twin turbo kit). Basically, I swapped injectors, map sensor, refreshed the ecu with known good tune for said injectors. Car absolutely cranks fine, but never catches and fires up. No alarm light on the dash at all.

Here is the kicker however I did just sent the ecu off to have the VIN programmed into it. Im guessing previous owner replaced the ecu at one point and no vin was ever programmed into it. Anyhow, I wasn't able to flash the ecu initially with the SCT because I couldn't get past the error stating the PCM had no VIN. Sent it off, got it back and checked that it could read the VIN just fine and everything matched. I flashed the ecu and attempted to start the car and it just cranks and never catches and runs.

Thoughts? Battery is good and new so its not that for sure. Im not sure there really is anything else to check... I'd like to ensure I've ruled just about everything out before going back to the tuner and asking about the tune that was flashed to the ecu.

EDIT: Little more info. ASD Relay and fuse appear to be in good shape and fuel pump does prime when key is in run position

Last edited by Lunchbox; September 9th, 2019 at 02:08 PM.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 02:38 PM   #2
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Are you positive your harness plugs are all firmly connected? Are all your sensors providing feedback? You'll need to check coil ground paths to confirm both they and the injectors are firing. You'll also need to be sure all engine compartment grounds are clean and tight.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 04:33 PM   #3
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So before all this "major upgrade" stuff....it ran with said no VIN ECU?
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Old September 9th, 2019, 05:26 PM   #4
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So before all this "major upgrade" stuff....it ran with said no VIN ECU?
Yep, ran really well.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 05:32 PM   #5
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Are you positive your harness plugs are all firmly connected? Are all your sensors providing feedback? You'll need to check coil ground paths to confirm both they and the injectors are firing. You'll also need to be sure all engine compartment grounds are clean and tight.
Yep, double checked all grounds, also checked harness connections I disconnected at any point and all are connected tight connectors are clean with no signs of any oddities on the pins. I haven't checked coil ground paths to confirm coils/injectors as you said just yet.

I am smelling a good bit of fuel after cranking, my only guess is the tune at this point aside from checking what you mentioned. Everything worked perfectly before the "surgery". I did just reach out to the tuner and ran the situation past him and he got back to me pretty quick. He mentioned its possible its just dumping too much fuel on startup and he can pull some. Map sensor checked out fine voltage wise with key on engine off (im using an SRT4 2bar map sensor).

I mainly just need to get the car to start and idle without running 10:1 AFR so I don't wash my bearings down with gas and can inspect for leaks and other oddities and it can be driven onto a trailer and towed to the dyno eventually.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 10:04 AM   #6
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Small update

Refreshed ecu with tune thats 30% less fuel across the board to see if that was the issue. No difference. Pulled two front plugs on drivers side and they smell like gas but aren't soaked. No signs of combustion other than last time it ran before it was taken down for upgrades.

Looks like its possible this is spark related. Any chronic trouble ignition spots on the Gen2 im no aware of? Coils? Will the car still fire injectors if the crank sensor isn't functioning as it should? Possible if its broken it might default to some sort of bank / batch fire overall?

Last edited by Lunchbox; September 10th, 2019 at 10:26 AM.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 10:34 AM   #7
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You should have spark if you're getting fuel, but you should pull and ground a plug or two to confirm. I was getting spark and fuel, but no start on my car. Turns out the cam seized and the sprocket pin sheared. That allowed the crank and cam to synch, but the valves were not operating.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 11:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS Dean View Post
You should have spark if you're getting fuel, but you should pull and ground a plug or two to confirm. I was getting spark and fuel, but no start on my car. Turns out the cam seized and the sprocket pin sheared. That allowed the crank and cam to synch, but the valves were not operating.
Had to leave home for a bit, but I have fuel pressure, pump primes, plugs SMELL like gas but no wet plugs (Very well could be residual from last known good run before mods)

JUST tested ignition. First try I saw 1 spark, and then nothing.

Tried a few times beyond that and nothing.

Looks like my pump primes, I have pressure at the rail and id label that as no spark.


My only guess here is bad crank sensor since I don't see wet plugs and I have no spark. Could the PCM be bad still if the ASD Relay is triggering and pump priming and whatnot?
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Old September 10th, 2019, 02:13 PM   #9
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Blah


So, I found some interesting info in the 2001 body diagnostic procedure manual under the verification tests section.


Bullet point 4

"If PCM has been changed and correct VIN and mileage have NOT been programmed, a DTC will be set in the ABS and Airbag modules. In addition if the vehicle is equipped with a SKIM, secret key data must be updated to enable start.

For abs/airbag, enter the correct vin and mileage in PCM and erase codes in abs and airbag modules.

For skim, connect DRBIII and place SKIM in secured access mode by using the appropriate pin code for this vehicle."

meh..... this sounds like a shit sandwich...
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Old September 10th, 2019, 04:42 PM   #10
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Sounds like you found your issue. The seco
nd I read the part in regards to the PCM and VIN numbers, I knew it was going to be a bit of a spectacle to get it running again.
Hopefully this works for you.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 05:01 PM   #11
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I thought I did...

But here is the kicker. So I called up Dan Lesser just to run this by him because, well... I figured if anyone knew, he would know more in relation to the PCM.

Ive got the following confirmed currently:

Fuel pressure
no spark
no fuel on plugs (not spraying)
rpm signal on scan tool when cranking

Ive also swapped back to stock injectors and PCM tune via SCT x3 and the original map sensor and it still won't start.

The only thing I CANNOT see or test via the scan tool I have is the camshaft position sensor.
I was told that the ASD Relay will function just fine if it gets an RPM signal but without a cam signal im just not going to get spark or injectors firing.

Im thinking the cam sensor might be shot... and it looks like.... they don't exist anymore from the dealer or aftermarket as im finding out.

I did find this though...

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...421#post153421

I guess ill have to try testing the existing cam sensor thats installed.
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Old September 11th, 2019, 04:52 PM   #12
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I do have Cam sensors in stock. But, test yours before you go that route.
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Old September 16th, 2019, 11:27 AM   #13
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I do have Cam sensors in stock. But, test yours before you go that route.
Thanks!

If i ever get time to get back around to working on it soon, i'll be able to find out whats going on. Work and family have kept me from getting back to this lately. I did pick up a sensor from a Dodge ram with the V10 (walker part number 235-1115) as a suitable replacement but i havn't confirmed the original is entirely dead just yet. Worst case its a good backup for down the road.

Assuming the cam sensor is the problem, if its replaced it looks like the gap between the sensor and the gear is adjustable. Does anyone have a handy link to the info for setting this gap and or any of the details?

Ill update this thread when i get a chance and i have more info to share.
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Old September 16th, 2019, 11:50 AM   #14
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O oh! Walker sensor.

https://www.viperalley.com/forum/vip...ine-quits.html
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Old September 16th, 2019, 01:38 PM   #15
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LOL! Good read... but that ~\you\~ variable is played out though.
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Old October 1st, 2019, 02:41 PM   #16
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ok, small update.

I ended up installing the new walker cam sensor because i had ordered it assuming i would need to replace it. Made sure to check if the high side of the gear was showing before installing and such and proper gap.

STILL. WONT. START.

I'm at a loss here. I highly doubt the wiring could be bad to any of the cam/crank sensors. All fuses are good, all connectors are plugged in tight. This wasn't a problem before the car sat for about 6 months.

The only other thing i can think of is that i did send the ecu to have the VIN flashed to it because it didn't have one and the SCT wouldn't even touch it without this being present. The ecu does still comunicate fine and the crank sensor is showing rpm when cranking. I doubt its the ECU but i guess its possible maybe?

Any suggestions are welcome. Im at a total loss at this point as to what could be causing the problem. Any ideas or suggestions are welcome.
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Old October 2nd, 2019, 11:40 AM   #17
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Off to find a DRB3 or perhaps use the DRB3 Emulator to see what i can find out. Powertrain diagnostics manual essentially requires this to get through most if not all of the scenarios of crank & no start.
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Old October 2nd, 2019, 11:52 AM   #18
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Check your PMs!
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Old October 2nd, 2019, 11:54 AM   #19
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Old October 3rd, 2019, 10:04 PM   #20
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HUGE thanks to Dean! I'll be toying with the DRB3 and hopefully tracing down the problem here this weekend.
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