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Overheating when AC Running

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Overheating when AC Running
Old June 18th, 2019, 07:49 PM   #1
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Overheating when AC Running

First and foremost, thanks for any help in advance. Second, I tried using the search function and got nothing on this specifically so here it goes. Fair warning, there's also a rant in here about
" p E r F o R m A n C e s H o P s "

Starting at the top, I had a Borla Catback installed w tune about 1.5 years back. A seemingly simple enough mod.

When I picked the car up, I noticed the temp gauge pegged at 225, which I had never before seen in daily driving the car for over a year. When I asked, I was told "it's normal, Gen 2's run hot and we're in Texas and it's summer etc." This didn't make sense to me considering I had the cats remove and a less restrictive exhaust installed which is supposed to help alleviate some of said heat.

The next day, I notice the car getting to temps of 230+ which was scaring the shit out of me, so I shut the car off. When checking the fuses and relay boxes, I discovered the fan relays had been obliterated. The shop that did the work said they couldn't take the car in or help me because they had to prep for a race event (cry me a fucking river).

I had the car towed elsewhere, the fan was pulled and sent to another shop where the wiring harness and fan motor were supposedly upgraded, but when it was all reinstalled, the car was still running hotter than it should, 215-225 without AC running. Another "extremely reputable" Viper shop looked over the car and told me everything was seemingly normal which I knew was wrong. Running at those temps, with AC off in the Fall/Winter isn't normal.

The car began misting oil from the dipstick which scared me shitless so I did some homework to have the car and tune looked over by people who actually give a shit about it running right and don't just want to fuck you out of hard earned money. A reputable tuner I found through my own homework looked over the tune and found the previous tune apparently had the car at a 14.1 AFR.

It was so lean he said the wideband didn't even let them make a baseline pull and he ended up letting off around 4K, gradually richening to about 13.7. To my understanding 12.6-12.8 is acceptable on an NA motor, but I'm not a mechanic or a tuner and can really only go off what I've learned up to this point.

I was also told the first time around the car made 460 whp and 530 wtq which seemed a bit happy to me for only having a catback. This was on a Dynojet. Hub dyno showed 435ish whp and 465ish wtq which was pretty spot on for every other Gen 2 they tuned with only a catback they said. They inspected valves and said everything looked normal, still waiting on leakdown/compression test to make sure the tune didn't fuck anything up. No power loss between tunes, car still pulls like a train which is nice but still mildly paranoid.

A shop the tuner recommended found that my "upgraded harness" was complete trash, built me a new one from scratch and for the first time in what feels like forever my high fan is ACTUALLY WORKING. Previously everyone claimed my "upgrade" was just quieter than the stock fan which was complete and total bullshit.

They also built me a custom CCV/Breather system which I tentatively believe has fixed the oil misting issue (doing leakdown/compression test, replacing old dipstick & tightening fittings next week to be certain).

The car seems to be running a lot better overall and holds temp right at 190 during normal driving, getting to 210-215 max if I sit in traffic forever in the Texas heat and humidity without running AC.

Sadly after all this shit, the car still gets to 230+ only when I run the AC. The compressor was pressure tested, freon recharged, etc. and everything there is all good according to the shop that the car is going to now, so the last thing I'm thinking is the water pump is bad? I've read issues of people only having the impeller slip "sometimes" but not all the time, so my initial thoughts were to start here now.

Here's everything on the car (1996 GTS with 81k):

-X2 Radiator ( didn't buy aluminum ones because everyone said they take a shit, I read somewhere that the Howe one is good quality, but only available through RSI who I don't feeling like dealing with)
-HPS silicone upper/lower radiator hoses
-98+ fan motor with VCO fan motor from Don Scharf (oe spec replacement)
-180 degree thermostat w fans programmed to kick on at lower temps to correspond to t-stat

Before anyone starts bringing up burping the system or checking the fill bottles, that's been done plenty of times at this point. Coolant levels & oil level are all exactly where they should be with no leaks.

I'm also not name dropping shops because I don't want to fuck anyones means of making a living, but if you're interested in knowing what's what message me. This is only a fraction of some of the shit I've dealt with.

Again thanks for any help, and thank you for reading. This has been exhausting and expensive to say the least. I understand it's an older car with a big ass engine that gets hot and you're bound to run into replacing stuff when driving the thing, but again there's a laundry list of crap I don't feel like getting into I've had to deal with.

Last edited by THEICON; June 18th, 2019 at 07:55 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2019, 08:01 AM   #2
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If it isn't in the red then it isn't overheating. But if it is too uncomfortable for you keep the speed higher and the rpms lower.
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Old June 19th, 2019, 08:33 AM   #3
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If the A/C is on, the condenser core is putting heat load right in front of the radiator, along with the oil cooler. Both of these will reduce the efficiency of the engine cooling system. If you are in stop/go traffic in the heat, there is barely enough air flow to bring the temps down to "normal" levels. As long as it doesn't hit the red and comes down when you're doing 30+, don't worry.

One thing most folks don't understand is that radiator fins plug up with debris over time, and it's more pronounced if the car is tracked. This is what came out of my radiator the last time, and it's the second time I've done this over the car's life. I repeatedly dropped the radiator flat on the floor from about 1" height to jar the rubber, grass, sand and bug particles out of the fins. You can brush, blow or vacuum the fins, but some crap just has to be beaten out.
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Old June 19th, 2019, 12:10 PM   #4
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I know the manual shows gauge travel diagrams and everything right up to before the red is considered "normal" depending on driving conditions, but frankly I've never felt like sitting there and waiting to see if it gets to that point.

Dean, I'll see about making sure the fins on my radiator are clean.

I know the condenser running will create heat and put additional load on the system, I think my concern is that it feels like it takes forever to get back down to normal temps.

I'll likely swap the water pump considering its old as hell and see if that makes a difference.

Is there any chance the condenser is on its way out even though the pressure test read okay? That was my initial thought but not really sure how else to tell.
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Old June 19th, 2019, 01:57 PM   #5
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What about the condition of the compressor? possible there might be too much drag on it perhaps that when the clutch kicks in and the compressor is turning that there is more resistance than normal?

A fix is putting some pushers on the front of the radiator probably, its not ideal because the car shouldn't overheat as it is, but it'll probably fix your issues if you cant find anything that is causing the issue ultimately.
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Old June 19th, 2019, 07:17 PM   #6
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Turning on the AC triggers the ECU to run the fans at a higher speed. Maybe tune was changed for these parameters. Can't remember but you can temporary wire in or just short the relay to run the fans on high all the time. See if you can do that and see if it lowers the temp.

AC compressor might be failing. Take the belt off and spin the pulley by hand. It should spin freely, else the bearing is failing.

You can also try with the AC on but temp set to heat and max fans, the temp should drops.

Maybe gauge is not working right. check rad temp manually (IR temp gun).

Water pump might not be working 100% and is working enough to cool without the AC but adding the extra load and the coolant flow is not enough.
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Old June 19th, 2019, 07:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
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What about the condition of the compressor? possible there might be too much drag on it perhaps that when the clutch kicks in and the compressor is turning that there is more resistance than normal?

A fix is putting some pushers on the front of the radiator probably, its not ideal because the car shouldn't overheat as it is, but it'll probably fix your issues if you cant find anything that is causing the issue ultimately.
That’s kind of what I was curious about. They pressure tested the AC and said everything looked good, but I’ll try taking the belt off and spinning the pulley to see if I get resistance.

Should go without saying but higher RPMs don’t help at all. Is it possible the water pump impeller is fine at low RPMs but spins on shaft at high?

I’m probably just going to replace both for safety’s sake at this point. Only annoyed at how much time and money was blown on the bullshit with the tune/ fan.

Also, high fan is tuned to kick on at 190. I can definitely hear it blowing when running AC. New shop finally got it right.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 08:44 AM   #8
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My 02 had a new radiator ( not aluminum ),new water pump, new A/C compressor, 190* thermostat and the PCM was set for the high speed fan to come on at 200*. All was good until I would get stuck in slow traffic with the A/C on. Had to turn off A/C until the car got moving at a decent speed again. Just not enough air flow to keep it cool at low speeds. Remember that the water pump slows down right along with the engine RPMs at lower speed. Less coolant flow through the rad = less cooling.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 07:35 PM   #9
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My 02 had a new radiator ( not aluminum ),new water pump, new A/C compressor, 190* thermostat and the PCM was set for the high speed fan to come on at 200*. All was good until I would get stuck in slow traffic with the A/C on. Had to turn off A/C until the car got moving at a decent speed again. Just not enough air flow to keep it cool at low speeds. Remember that the water pump slows down right along with the engine RPMs at lower speed. Less coolant flow through the rad = less cooling.
How hot would you run?
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Old June 21st, 2019, 08:55 AM   #10
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With the A/C on, and in traffic or stopped, it would get up to around 230* or so. At that point, I would shut off the A/C and it would start cooling down. The car normally ran around 190*. At the time, I lived in N. Tx.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 10:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
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With the A/C on, and in traffic or stopped, it would get up to around 230* or so. At that point, I would shut off the A/C and it would start cooling down. The car normally ran around 190*. At the time, I lived in N. Tx.
Same with my '01. I even had the OEM radiator re-cored to a three core copper and its still the same. For what it's worth (and I hate to admit it), when I was running that huge FLUIDYNE aluminum radiator I got from ROE Racing 10 yrs ago or so, it ran really cool....BUT after two years, it seeped and leaked. I actually traded it to Big Brake Dave (RIP) for a stocker since he was going to develop a new radiator at the time. So even a three-core OEM radiator will run hot without airflow. Nature of the beast.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 12:33 PM   #12
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Same with my '01. I even had the OEM radiator re-cored to a three core copper and its still the same. For what it's worth (and I hate to admit it), when I was running that huge FLUIDYNE aluminum radiator I got from ROE Racing 10 yrs ago or so, it ran really cool....BUT after two years, it seeped and leaked. I actually traded it to Big Brake Dave (RIP) for a stocker since he was going to develop a new radiator at the time. So even a three-core OEM radiator will run hot without airflow. Nature of the beast.
Thats unfortunate to hear that even the 3 cores didn't help that.

I think two pusher fans on the front that flow a large amount of air could be the key to fixing this issue for most, I havnt personally tried this on my viper just yet because its apart still in upgrade mode, but on a large single turbo dodge stealth with fmic (has a similar bumper cover opening as the viper) i had similar issues and added pushers and it did help significantly and fix the problem for me.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 01:14 PM   #13
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The car is not going to die with coolant temps of 230-235F. As long as it reaches an equilibrium in stop & go, then comes back down when you get rolling again, that's pretty normal.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 02:14 AM   #14
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The car is not going to die with coolant temps of 230-235F. As long as it reaches an equilibrium in stop & go, then comes back down when you get rolling again, that's pretty normal.
I read somewhere a guy called Dave6666 calling everyone posers, stating his car would run 210 at the hottest. I think he also lived in TX.

I also think I’ve just heard and read so many mixed things about what’s “normal” for operating temp that I’m just a bit jaded/ confused as to what normal actually is.

Also, I found this kit:

http://www.specialtyperformanceteam....2002-63p60.htm

Anyone here running it in places where it’s 95+ that can speak to its performance?
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 08:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
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I read somewhere a guy called Dave6666 calling everyone posers, stating his car would run 210 at the hottest. I think he also lived in TX.

I also think I’ve just heard and read so many mixed things about what’s “normal” for operating temp that I’m just a bit jaded/ confused as to what normal actually is.
That guy was the ultimate poser. I heard he’s building plywood splitters in his garage and selling them to unsuspecting neighborhood college girls.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 11:36 AM   #16
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but his tune was perfect.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 01:00 PM   #17
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but his tune was perfect.
Are we trolling now? Just making sure 😂

He also shat on that fan kit saying it was $150 worth of fans etc. Still curious if anyone’s running it and how it holds up.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 01:43 PM   #18
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Are we trolling now? Just making sure 😂

He also shat on that fan kit saying it was $150 worth of fans etc. Still curious if anyone’s running it and how it holds up.
Inside joke on the tune.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 02:51 PM   #19
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Are we trolling now? Just making sure 😂

He also shat on that fan kit saying it was $150 worth of fans etc. Still curious if anyone’s running it and how it holds up.
Inside joke on the tune.
Gotcha. Driving car to Houston to further investigate issue now. I’ll report back on AC clutch/ water pump.
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Old June 29th, 2019, 12:46 PM   #20
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Okay so the car has a new OEM water pump and it certainly doesn’t seemed to have hurt. Overall the car seems to stay in the 210-215 range longer in city driving, but eventually gets to 230+

The car does still seem to feel more bogged down after running AC for a while, so that’s the last thing I’m going to try before adding fans to the front of the radiator.

Anyone here running Evans coolant or using purple ice? Wondering if you guys have noticed better temps with either.
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