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ROE Supercharger Question for those who have it

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ROE Supercharger Question for those who have it
Old June 9th, 2019, 06:22 AM   #1
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ROE Supercharger Question for those who have it

What are your fuel trims at idle? Mine are 25%+ on idle and light throttle but under normal accel they are good around 8-10+. Wondering if this is normal for the ROE.

Nothing is wrong with the car, no leaks etc. I have no drivability issues, idles fine with 25% fuel trims and no black smoke.

Also curious what are the fuel trims for a NA. Viper tech here say 10+ is normal for Vipers when not supercharged. Wondering with the supercharger the tune needs to be more rich at idle.

Thanks
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Old June 9th, 2019, 04:48 PM   #2
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What tuning solution are you using? SCT or VEC? FWIW, you can get trims at or near zero both idle and cruise. Mine are...even with a large overlap cam.
Also, what ROE manifold design are you using...the original or "improved"....LOL.
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Old June 9th, 2019, 06:53 PM   #3
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SCT.............I just downloaded the ROE tune that came with the supercharger. Its running a 93 octane tune. Brand new charger so has the new manifold design. I am stuck here not sure what to do. Have been talking to scott and he needs a data log but that also seem to difficult since at WOT it goes to 0% trims (probably because it goes to open loop) dont have a wide band o2. Can it be a fuel injector or spark plug wire? 2 year old wires not sure if they can be an issue.

How did you tune it? Very limited here in Ontario Canada to find a shop that won't blow up my engine.

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What tuning solution are you using? SCT or VEC? FWIW, you can get trims at or near zero both idle and cruise. Mine are...even with a large overlap cam.
Also, what ROE manifold design are you using...the original or "improved"....LOL.
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Old June 9th, 2019, 07:32 PM   #4
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You donít need a wideband or to go WOT to datalog idle and part throttle cruise. These are conditions critical to driveability, but difficult to nail via remote tuning. Wideband would be helpful if youíre completely pegged at 25%, but you can make due. Itís WOT tuning that absolutely needs a wideband. Send him the datalogs he is requesting and see what he says.


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Old June 10th, 2019, 04:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremias06 View Post
What are your fuel trims at idle? Mine are 25%+ on idle and light throttle but under normal accel they are good around 8-10+. Wondering if this is normal for the ROE.

Nothing is wrong with the car, no leaks etc. I have no drivability issues, idles fine with 25% fuel trims and no black smoke.

Also curious what are the fuel trims for a NA. Viper tech here say 10+ is normal for Vipers when not supercharged. Wondering with the supercharger the tune needs to be more rich at idle.

Thanks
Are you referring to short term or long term fuel trims? From my experience with the mopar pcm on other platforms, the ltfts should be lower, <10% iirc. If this is the left then it sounds like an injector scaling issue. There was also another table for the fuel pressure compensation when moving to a 1:1 rising rate fpr. I'll see if i can dig up the wiki that has this information.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 06:26 AM   #6
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Both banks are pretty much equal at around 25% at idle or on 6th gear at part throttle lets say 80mph. LTFT. Once I put more throttle they stabalize at around 8-10% or sometimes 10% LTFT and goest to negative 4 or 5 STFT so thats seems right to me.

I do have some idle issues when cold (when putting in nuetral and letting it coast to a stop light) the rpms goes lower than I like but doesn't stall. Only happens when cold when hot no issues. Maybe the 25% fuel trims that is flooding the combustion chamber, which is my opinion.

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Are you referring to short term or long term fuel trims? From my experience with the mopar pcm on other platforms, the ltfts should be lower, <10% iirc. If this is the left then it sounds like an injector scaling issue. There was also another table for the fuel pressure compensation when moving to a 1:1 rising rate fpr. I'll see if i can dig up the wiki that has this information.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 08:56 AM   #7
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If I recall, open loop is activated at 3880 RPM or if the WOT threshold on the TPS is met. Lots of variables play into the equation. For your situation, I'd suspect more of a basic scaling issue...since that is what it ended up being for me. I was able to manage most of the fuel trim issues by modifying the fuel with EGR and fuel without EGR tables...I make them both identical. Cold start fueling is managed by the MAP-Based warm-up table and warm-up fuel table. Given that we have to fool the PCM by extrapolating 2bar map values, one thing that always concerns me is 'key on' map values that many tables reference. You can't change it to be functionally correct and there is no way to deternime how that bullshit key on value impacts other tables. Like I've said, I know enough to be dangerous and SCT does nothing to help that situation. So sad.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 01:46 PM   #8
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So what do I do. I personally cannot change tables etc. Can scott from roe do this with a data log? Its getting frustrating I have changed every sensor pretty much and still getting no where. 100% no air leaks. Next up is new wires (maybe faulty at idle and part throttle but works at open throttle)

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Originally Posted by EllowViper View Post
If I recall, open loop is activated at 3880 RPM or if the WOT threshold on the TPS is met. Lots of variables play into the equation. For your situation, I'd suspect more of a basic scaling issue...since that is what it ended up being for me. I was able to manage most of the fuel trim issues by modifying the fuel with EGR and fuel without EGR tables...I make them both identical. Cold start fueling is managed by the MAP-Based warm-up table and warm-up fuel table. Given that we have to fool the PCM by extrapolating 2bar map values, one thing that always concerns me is 'key on' map values that many tables reference. You can't change it to be functionally correct and there is no way to deternime how that bullshit key on value impacts other tables. Like I've said, I know enough to be dangerous and SCT does nothing to help that situation. So sad.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 02:34 PM   #9
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You need to log with PCM scan which when correcly configured, shows you fuel trims in each resolution cell. When you can actually see fuel trims by cell, its much easier to go into the SCT software and modify each fuel cell as needed, adding or subtracting fuel in milliseconds of pulse width. A basic 'poor mans tune' will scale fuel linearly across load and RPM and it will appear to run OK, bit to get it 'right' you need to see the fuel demand in each cell (resoultion table) and PCM scan lets you do that (in closed loop that is). Its pretty cool and you can also incorporate a Wide Band external feed if you are so inclined to go to that length. I haven't done that thus far. For our PCM, we have 9 resolution cells equally spaced from deep vacuum to 2-bar (0-5v range) and from idle to 6167 RPM. Within these cells are the basic injector pulsewidth calculations that give you your fuel delivery at a load and RPM. Pretty simple in theory, but hard to get it perfect without spending some time learning how the PCM works and what SCT lets you do/not do.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 03:34 PM   #10
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Is there a program you use to change all that you explained to me. By the way thank you for the responses and your time much appreciated.

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You need to log with PCM scan which when correcly configured, shows you fuel trims in each resolution cell. When you can actually see fuel trims by cell, its much easier to go into the SCT software and modify each fuel cell as needed, adding or subtracting fuel in milliseconds of pulse width. A basic 'poor mans tune' will scale fuel linearly across load and RPM and it will appear to run OK, bit to get it 'right' you need to see the fuel demand in each cell (resoultion table) and PCM scan lets you do that (in closed loop that is). Its pretty cool and you can also incorporate a Wide Band external feed if you are so inclined to go to that length. I haven't done that thus far. For our PCM, we have 9 resolution cells equally spaced from deep vacuum to 2-bar (0-5v range) and from idle to 6167 RPM. Within these cells are the basic injector pulsewidth calculations that give you your fuel delivery at a load and RPM. Pretty simple in theory, but hard to get it perfect without spending some time learning how the PCM works and what SCT lets you do/not do.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 08:44 AM   #11
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PCM Scan for datalogging your ODB-II values and then SCT Pro-Racer software to actually program your engine controller (PCM). I would recommend for your situation to get the car to an actual experienced tuner that is familiar with all this. Remote tuning to the extent you need a tune is going to be a frustrating experience and driving a Viper with a correctly tuned ROE is suppose to be FUN! Dealing with tuning can, if you let it, take all the fun away. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer with this, but it is what it is.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 05:35 PM   #12
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Yea the problem is I don't know if there is a tuner here I can trust not to damage my engine

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PCM Scan for datalogging your ODB-II values and then SCT Pro-Racer software to actually program your engine controller (PCM). I would recommend for your situation to get the car to an actual experienced tuner that is familiar with all this. Remote tuning to the extent you need a tune is going to be a frustrating experience and driving a Viper with a correctly tuned ROE is suppose to be FUN! Dealing with tuning can, if you let it, take all the fun away. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer with this, but it is what it is.
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Old July 22nd, 2019, 01:37 PM   #13
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Did you ever get this resolved?
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Old August 7th, 2019, 07:41 PM   #14
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Did you ever get this resolved?
Yes finally. It was adjusting the idle screw. It was very hard to get the sweet spot but if it is off I guess it effects the IAC valve and what its telling the PCM.
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