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ZZ's '97 GTS- Single Turbo Build

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Old July 5th, 2016, 09:59 AM   #141
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Finished up the passenger side hotside, and finish welded everything. Next step is to figure out the wastegate and dump positions, and get them plumbed.

First things first, coming straight forward from the passenger log header was not an option because it would interfere with a gusset on the frame rail. I need to jog the pipe up to miss this.

I decided to use a couple 10 degree pie cuts to jog it through there.









Now I could finish connecting the hotside.





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Old July 6th, 2016, 12:09 AM   #142
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Looks like it's coming along nice. What's your time frame to having this tuned and turn key by?
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Old July 6th, 2016, 11:34 AM   #143
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Looks like it's coming along nice. What's your time frame to having this tuned and turn key by?
I've had many dates that have come and gone, and so now I'm just working on it when I have free time and when it's done it's done.

At a minimum I want to have it running and the bugs worked out by fall. I would think I can start it within a month at this point.

Another big factor is the tuning. I am using a MegaSquirt 3 Pro to run the car so it's all new and never been used. We have tested a majority of the system and no issues thus far.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 10:16 PM   #144
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Damn, I'm all caught up!

Great work Zach!!

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Old July 18th, 2016, 11:55 AM   #145
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Two more weeks went by where I was buried in work, weddings, etc so I haven't touched the car again. I did finally get a decent chunk of time this weekend to crank some stuff out. At this point I've pretty much given up on any specific timeline and when it's done it's done.

Anywho, time for some wastegate placement. I decided to keep the divided hotside so therefore I need two wastegates to control each bank. Went with two Turbosmart 40mm Comp-Gates. This should provided plenty of flow to keep the boost controllable.



I originally planned to tie the dumps into the exhaust, but my exhaust is aluminum, and my gate flanges are stainless.... so yeah. I didn't feel like trying to have special flanges machined or made to work in aluminum so I'm going open dump.

With being open dump, it's another 2 lbs of crap I have to fit when I already have 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag. I needed to be very strategic about where to put the dumps and avoid all the other areas that are already occupied.

Another consideration is purely from the aesthetic standpoint. Why have a one-off single turbo viper if it looks like a turd and wasn't planned out well? With all that being said, I came up with a location that I thought could accomplish both as well as possible.

First gate positioned and added. This is complicated one as the dump needs to shoot underneath the merge pipes.





Driver side wastegate plumed and welded up.







Obviously the more severe of an angle the wastegates are plumbed, the less restriction the bypass air will have and thus allow the boost to be more controllable. With that being said, these are at 25 degrees from being T'ed, so they do have some tilt to help with flow. Ideally it would be more but i'm really restricted on room, and with twin 40's I should have zero issues with control.


Next was to plumb the dumps and make the radiator supply tube since these are both in the general vicinity and I need to make sure there are no interferences.

Radiator tube first.





Now for the dumps.

Welding them up to the flanges. I have to show my flange welds because these always look the best



Passenger side swoops under the merge pipe. Driver side dump jogs forward to miss the exhaust and straight down. The goal here is to get them both running parallel side-by-side straight down to the ground.





You can now also see the radiator tube snaking through the jungle gym.

For the time being, I've decided to leave the dumps half finished. I have my coldside pipe running from the turbo across right underneath these dump tubes and I will need to navigate around it. Until I get that pipe plumbed I don't want to guess. I put a pipe there as a placeholder to show what I mean.



This is basically where I am halting forward progress it because I've proven everything is going to fit and is mocked up. I will dis-assemble everything I have done, clean the engine bay really well, finish weld anything I haven't already (not much) and then start to paint everything i've made to this point in high temp coating, and wrap it with DEI wrap to prepare for the final install. Once all of that is in place I will finish the small detailed stuff I haven't already.

In the meantime, I've ordered ALL the rest of the aluminum I will need to plumb the cold side, make a new charge pipe, and run the 4" exhaust. I need to start practicing aluminum welding since I've never done it before. Pretty much everything from this point forward is aluminum minus finishing the dumps.
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Old July 19th, 2016, 09:48 AM   #146
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Looking VERY cool! Thanks for the updates; I love seeing the photos.
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Old July 19th, 2016, 10:28 AM   #147
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this is looking pretty tasty!
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Old July 19th, 2016, 12:09 PM   #148
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Thanks guys. I'm finally starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I still have a lot of small details to figure out. Things like coolant reservoir and overflow bottle, new fan setup with shroud, etc.
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Old July 19th, 2016, 09:26 PM   #149
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As a newbie to the forum.....I'd like to say how nice a job you're doing of this!
Crack on, it's the attention to detail that makes it!
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Old July 20th, 2016, 07:38 AM   #150
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Looking good.
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Old July 28th, 2016, 10:10 AM   #151
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There is a lot of strategic planning going on right now in terms of how I can tie up the loose ends of my design, while still being able to tear everything down, get it all coated, wrapped, etc without losing too much time.

For the time being, I went ahead and tore down the majority of the hotside so I could coat it and wrap it.



Coated with high temp paint, you can also see the EGT sensor bung I welded on the passenger side. There will be a sensor on each side to monitor both banks.



Wrapped in DEI wrap. Unfortunately, I could not wrap each tube all the way to the merge as the spacing was too tight between the pipes. It bothers me a little because I don't think it looks as nice, but I'm trying to remember this wrap is for performance, and at the end of the day once the hood is on, you will never really stare at this setup from the front of the car.



In the meantime, I've kept the turbo mounted on the car so I can finish running the exhaust. I cannot even emphasize how ridiculously tight it is to fit this 4" tube between the frame, the accessory belt, the power steering reservoir, the hotside, the AC compressor, and the steering knuckle/arm. There is literally no room in any direction. I may have to dent the pipe to create clearance if I end up with a rubbing issue on the compressor fittings when it's all said and done.



Second aluminum TIGweld ever attempted. Not too shabby.



Making sure fitment is good. There will be a v-band at the turndown, and then a new seperate piece that will finish up the exhaust and come out the side of the rocker panel.

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Old August 8th, 2016, 12:30 PM   #152
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I dis-assembled all my progress to this point to get everything ready for final assembly.

One of the last main things I needed to fab up was a new fan shroud setup. With the turbo sitting in the middle of the shroud, and rather close to the radiator, there was no way the stock unit was going to fit. I had the crappy early version of fan anyway so no loss in getting rid of it.

To start, I simply ordered a 36" x 18" piece of 1/8" 5052 aluminum.

I cut the perimeter to size to fit around the radiator ports, mount up to the lower and upper mounting holes, etc. while still supplying a good seal on all 4 sides to the radiator duct.



With that done, I put the turbo back in the car to figure out where exactly I would have room for a set of fans. I pretty much measured the max allowable space I could use, then went online and found the biggest SPAL fans with the highest rated CFM I could stuff in there.



Getting ready to cut my fan holes. Not fun or easy in the middle of a piece of aluminum.



I drilled two center holes for the fans, and my idea was to 3d print two swing arms for my plasma cutter to cut the two fan holes.





It didn't go well My plasma cutter is a 25A unit and it apparently didn't have enough juice to cut through the aluminum quickly or cleanly.

Plan B: use a jigsaw with a metal bit. This worked fine but was slow and somewhat cumbersome.

My holes aren't perfect but it won't matter because they won't be seen with the fans installed. I finished cutting, then ran a sander acrossed the whole surface of the aluminum because I had scratched it up pretty badly with the jigsaw guideplate.



The center cutout in the picture is for the turbo compressor flange and v-band to sit within. There just simply was not enough room. I am going to rivet a piece of rubber across the hole with a slit in it so it will still seal for the fans and keep air from re-circulating.



I radiused all the corners with a belt sander as well to make things look a little more professional.

Next, I painted the shroud with low-gloss black engine paint. I figured I should keep the paint somewhat high temp with the turbo so nearby.



Lastly, I riveted on the fans with 1/4" rivets.



I am leaving the center hole uncovered until I can test fit it with the turbo to ensure everything works as planned.
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Old August 8th, 2016, 04:22 PM   #153
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Turbo Kit Looks Really Good!!
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Old August 8th, 2016, 04:40 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by ZZ SRT View Post
I dis-assembled all my progress to this point to get everything ready for final assembly.

One of the last main things I needed to fab up was a new fan shroud setup. With the turbo sitting in the middle of the shroud, and rather close to the radiator, there was no way the stock unit was going to fit. I had the crappy early version of fan anyway so no loss in getting rid of it.

To start, I simply ordered a 36" x 18" piece of 1/8" 5052 aluminum.

I cut the perimeter to size to fit around the radiator ports, mount up to the lower and upper mounting holes, etc. while still supplying a good seal on all 4 sides to the radiator duct.



With that done, I put the turbo back in the car to figure out where exactly I would have room for a set of fans. I pretty much measured the max allowable space I could use, then went online and found the biggest SPAL fans with the highest rated CFM I could stuff in there.



Getting ready to cut my fan holes. Not fun or easy in the middle of a piece of aluminum.



I drilled two center holes for the fans, and my idea was to 3d print two swing arms for my plasma cutter to cut the two fan holes.





It didn't go well My plasma cutter is a 25A unit and it apparently didn't have enough juice to cut through the aluminum quickly or cleanly.

Plan B: use a jigsaw with a metal bit. This worked fine but was slow and somewhat cumbersome.

My holes aren't perfect but it won't matter because they won't be seen with the fans installed. I finished cutting, then ran a sander acrossed the whole surface of the aluminum because I had scratched it up pretty badly with the jigsaw guideplate.



The center cutout in the picture is for the turbo compressor flange and v-band to sit within. There just simply was not enough room. I am going to rivet a piece of rubber across the hole with a slit in it so it will still seal for the fans and keep air from re-circulating.



I radiused all the corners with a belt sander as well to make things look a little more professional.

Next, I painted the shroud with low-gloss black engine paint. I figured I should keep the paint somewhat high temp with the turbo so nearby.



Lastly, I riveted on the fans with 1/4" rivets.



I am leaving the center hole uncovered until I can test fit it with the turbo to ensure everything works as planned.
From my experience, your car would run cooler if you simply attached your fans to the radiator core with those cheapie radiator fan zip ties with some foam under the circumference of the fan cage(so they are fully sealed to the core and pull maximum airflow), That way you would get the maximum airflow through the core while moving. That fan attachment would also give you more clearance for the turbo. What size fans did you use? Spal makes a 16" race fan that flows 3000 CFM @ zero static pressure. What are the two fans rated at 25-30" of static pressure? That is roughly what you are pulling through with the stock AC condensor, oil cooler radiator core and fan/shroud.
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Old August 8th, 2016, 05:01 PM   #155
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I'll second PC, you've eliminated effectively 75% of your radiator there. The stock "shroud" allows the fan to pull from across the whole radiator because it's spaced off the fins. You just created a blocker plate for most of it.

You'll be 100x better off running just the fans zip tied to the radiator.
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Old August 8th, 2016, 08:01 PM   #156
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Guys, the fan shroud I made mounts to the stock mounting holes and is 3" from the face of the radiator. Therefore I am using 100% of the core. I did consider making some flappers like the stocker so the fans won't be a restriction at highway or track speeds.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 08:17 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano View Post
From my experience, your car would run cooler if you simply attached your fans to the radiator core with those cheapie radiator fan zip ties with some foam under the circumference of the fan cage(so they are fully sealed to the core and pull maximum airflow), That way you would get the maximum airflow through the core while moving. That fan attachment would also give you more clearance for the turbo. What size fans did you use? Spal makes a 16" race fan that flows 3000 CFM @ zero static pressure. What are the two fans rated at 25-30" of static pressure? That is roughly what you are pulling through with the stock AC condensor, oil cooler radiator core and fan/shroud.
One fan is 12" and one fan is a 7.5".

I think the shroud will certainly help at idle/traffic from using 100% of the core. I could see the fans becoming a restriction at high speeds and the shroud actually limiting overall flow.

The good news is, I can always go the other direction and remove the shroud and put larger fans against the core. My current setup requires more spaceclaim, so I would rather account for it now in the design of my other components (dump tubes, cold side, etc).

I'm pretty much just winging it on the majority of this build, but the irony is that I'm a cooling engineer who designs and implements systems like this on a daily basis on all sorts of machinery and even on-highway applications. I'm just trying to use the basic design practices I have learned and apply them here. It will be somewhat trial and error, but I have a hard time seeing this setup performing worse than the stock fan setup.
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Old August 14th, 2016, 11:29 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by ZZ SRT View Post
One fan is 12" and one fan is a 7.5".

I think the shroud will certainly help at idle/traffic from using 100% of the core. I could see the fans becoming a restriction at high speeds and the shroud actually limiting overall flow.

The good news is, I can always go the other direction and remove the shroud and put larger fans against the core. My current setup requires more spaceclaim, so I would rather account for it now in the design of my other components (dump tubes, cold side, etc).

I'm pretty much just winging it on the majority of this build, but the irony is that I'm a cooling engineer who designs and implements systems like this on a daily basis on all sorts of machinery and even on-highway applications. I'm just trying to use the basic design practices I have learned and apply them here. It will be somewhat trial and error, but I have a hard time seeing this setup performing worse than the stock fan setup.
Zach, I remembered you are a cooling engineer and did not want to bust your balls too hard about this, but I also want t point out that a 12" fan flows almost 1/2 of what the stock 16" fan flows. You did not get the super duper 12" spal fan with the curved blades and bigger motor so you will be severely down on pulling power as well as on surface area for air to flow through your radiator core at speed.The fan blades on the fan you have do not move that much air. Just try it and see what happens, you can always mount that fan or a larger , higher flowing one to the core which will also allow the air coming through the radiator a longer path to make the turn to flow around the turbo that is behind the radiator allowing for a higher intrinsic flow. Good luck!
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Old August 15th, 2016, 09:18 AM   #159
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Zach, I remembered you are a cooling engineer and did not want to bust your balls too hard about this, but I also want t point out that a 12" fan flows almost 1/2 of what the stock 16" fan flows. You did not get the super duper 12" spal fan with the curved blades and bigger motor so you will be severely down on pulling power as well as on surface area for air to flow through your radiator core at speed.The fan blades on the fan you have do not move that much air. Just try it and see what happens, you can always mount that fan or a larger , higher flowing one to the core which will also allow the air coming through the radiator a longer path to make the turn to flow around the turbo that is behind the radiator allowing for a higher intrinsic flow. Good luck!
Thanks Paolo. I guess we'll see. I've never heard an official number, but I've heard the later upgraded Gen 2 fan flows 2300. No idea about the first iteration shroud which is what I still had in my car. My total airflow should be close to 2000 CFM at idle with the two fans combined. I'm assuming that will be somewhat close to what my current shroud is flowing. I'll also be wiring the fans to be controlled by the MS3, so I will have the fans running at full speed, from the time of stat crack temperature, at 170 degrees.

At least in the cooling OEM world, how many fans have been bolted directly to the face of a radiator core, or any cooling component? I've never designed one that way, or seen anyone design it that way and it's for good reason. If I put a 16" high flow fan on the radiator, it will cover about 200 sq inches. That's about 1/3rd of the total area of the radiator core , meaning at idle, when there is no ram air, the other 2/3rds of the core is relying on natural convection alone to cool. Not ideal.

The whole cooling package is a system, and there are a lot of variables to take into account. Fan to core spacing, upstream restriction, etc. I do agree there may be a concern of the fans being a restriction at highway speeds. Before installing the shroud, I may cutout some flaps like the OEM shroud to allow them to open under speed.
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Old August 15th, 2016, 12:14 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by ZZ SRT View Post
Guys, the fan shroud I made mounts to the stock mounting holes and is 3" from the face of the radiator. Therefore I am using 100% of the core. I did consider making some flappers like the stocker so the fans won't be a restriction at highway or track speeds.
Really? By my recollection the factory mounting brackets have the face of the core less than an inch away (unused core space) This is why the updated fans have the shroud pulled back to get additional airflow completely across the core.

The 17.5" 99+ updated fan with the rubber flaps pulls closer to 4,000 cfm iirc.

I'd get as much fan on that thing as you can, and a bigger radiator.
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