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ZZ's '97 GTS- Single Turbo Build

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Old December 23rd, 2015, 11:19 AM   #41
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Haven't gotten a lot done lately. Been busy with other things.

Today I just finally got word that the place I am ordering my manifold flanges from got them back in stock, so those should be here end of this week and I can start rock and rolling on the manifolds.

In the meantime, I tried to consolidate the chaos of my garage by starting to piece some things back together. I started with the trunk. The access for the fuel tank and fuel pumps is underneath the carpet, so I decided to swap out the pumps so I could put the carpet back in.

2 years ago when I built the supercharger setup, I went to an aftermarket fuel basket with dual Walbro 255's. Now that I am going to E85 and more power, I needed some more pump and something E85 compatible. I decided to swap out the 255's with two Walbro 450's. They are the same size so it was an easy swap.

Fuel access under carpet



Fuel pump basket disassembled.



Pumps swapped out and re-assembled.



Next, to get the carpet back on the floor of the trunk, I needed to first handle the two blown factory speakers. I went to Best Buy, and bought the two cheapest 6.5" speakers they had. I think they were around 50 bucks.

Blown speaker 1



Blown speaker 2



New cheap speakers



New speakers soldered and shrink wrapped to existing harness in the car.



New speakers installed.

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Old December 23rd, 2015, 11:23 AM   #42
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Now that the trunk carpet was back installed, I could set forth on the next project, installing the reservoir for the air-to-water intercooler.

In the stock trunk there originally was a spare donut tire and jack. I removed that as it isn't necessary for me which created an uneven ugly trunk floor. To remedy this and make a surface for mounting the tank and running the lines underneath, I needed to create a flat panel.

Started with a piece of cardboard, and measured each dimension in the trunk and started transferring the shape and size.



First mockup out of cardboard. Fit okay but not perfect.



Made a second mockup with a few revisions from the first one to fix fitment. Much better fitment.



Finally, with a final template I transferred it to some 1/4" plywood.



Jigsawed it out and sanded the edges a little with an orbital sander to avoid future splinters



I needed some supports to allow it to sit flush in the correct position with a false bottom. I realize it would've been easier to run strips across, but I was using scrap wood out of my garage and this is what I came up with. I started by laying out a grid. The panel didn't end up symmetrical. No clue why, but this is exactly what fit the shape of the trunk.



adding spacers. There isn't any support on the outsides because there are two shelves in the trunk floor that the edges rest on. These other pieces are to match that height.



Test fit in the trunk.



Approximate location of reservoir.



Next step was to wrap the plywood in black carpet to match the other interior, mount the tank, and route the lines through the trunk floor with a grommet.

I also will be 3d printing some grommets to clean up the holes.





I'm also painting the reservoir wrinkle black to make it fit the theme of the rest of the car.



First I wrapped the trunk panel in black carpet to match the interior. I also painted the reservoir black with a very subtle wrinkle black.

I also 3d printed some grommets to match the size of the holes I cut in the board to allow the supply/return/drain lines to run through.



Here's the finished product.





Mounted in the car.





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Old December 23rd, 2015, 11:26 AM   #43
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Also, I've still been continuously obsessing over the orientation and position of this turbo. I changed the orientation once again and think I may have find the "best case" scenario. Only problem is, I need to move the power steering pulley and reservoir to make this fit. This was partially due to Paolo's advice that there is more room on the driver side due to the offset of the engine. I had somehow never noticed that until he said it, but it is somewhat significant.

To test whether I could move the pulley, and gain enough clearance to make it work, I decided to reverse engineer the stock mount to the engine block and then make some positional adjustments to the mounting holes for the reservoir/pulley.

Original design reverse engineered into CAD:



My new design modeled into CAD:



3D printed:





Mounted in the car for fit-up:



Didn't move the overall fitment near enough



Back to the drawing board. Designed another one moving the location much more drastically.





Much better: I think I have enough room here that I can make it work. I'm trying to run the 4" exhaust through this area.



I may have to cut the end off the thermostat housing outlet and re-direct it. It is now very close to the belt/pulley.
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 11:46 AM   #44
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looking really good my friend!
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 12:01 PM   #45
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Impressive work! I love these kinds of threads, keep the updates coming!
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 12:30 PM   #46
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looking good!
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 04:13 PM   #47
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for the e85, is it a return system or returnless??
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 04:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by slothman View Post
for the e85, is it a return system or returnless??
It's a return system. -8 PTFE lines to a -8 split to each rail. Then equal length out of the rail to an aeromotive regulator, then -6 back to the tank.
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Old December 24th, 2015, 05:59 PM   #49
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Keep up the amazing work! Can't wait to see this beast running!!
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Old December 25th, 2015, 09:37 AM   #50
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Zach, it is fairly straight forward to remove the stock reservoir from the PS pump and relocate it. Have a machinist tap the hole for an AN or pipe thread and you will free up a bunch of space. You can put the remote reservoir in the driver wheel well area with the fill cap coming out of the inside edge area of the fiberglass wheel well cover. You might need to move the AC compressor down to get a clean shot for the downpipe. A 4" downpipe has almost 10% less cross sectional area than (2) 3" downpipes assuming a .065 wall thickness. 4" will work, but if there was a way to either notch the frame correctly, redo the brake lines that are in the way right there, a 5" exhaust would give the exhaust a chance to expand off the turbo making for more efficiency. I have seen a touch over 50 RWHP on a stock motor just upping the 3" exhaust to 4" right after the first few inches of a 3" DP. I would figure out a way to make a 5" exhaust or the equivalence therof to fit in there. You could also split it and get the larger cross sectional area and accomplish the same thing but it would not be as clean as just a properly done frame notch and ac pump relocation which you could 3-D print an adapter bracket to move it down quite easily.............

Good luck!
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Old December 25th, 2015, 09:46 AM   #51
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Cross sectional area isn't the end all be all. Considerations must be made for the boundary effects at the walls etc. Aka, I'd take a single 4" over two 3s. . but either is fine in my book. You can also run a 5" part of the way and neck back down when space becomes problematic. The gasses will cool significantly and the pressure penalty won't be as severe. Just make transitions gradually.
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Old December 25th, 2015, 09:49 AM   #52
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One more thing I just remembered is I sourced some metric banjo fittings for the pressure lines on the PS rack for much lower profile. Do that and you will have even more clearance. Ask Joel Fortin how much those help for clearance!
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Old December 25th, 2015, 10:20 AM   #53
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With the extra volume of the E85, you will want to increase the size of the lines, especially the return. At least a -8 on the return for sure.
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Old December 25th, 2015, 12:30 PM   #54
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Yes the power steering fittings give a ton more clearance than stock at the rack. Also they allow you to run custom lenght -6 lines that really make it helpful to run them as long as you need to get around the heat. Aka exhaust ect.

For the exhaust I did dual 3.5 and it was tight as it is. The problem with going to large is when your pulling wrenches in the future some of this stuff can be a pain to work around.

As for your fuel. I do believe your lines are on the small side on e85. That been said I've seen some really good power being made on some small fuel systems.
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Old December 25th, 2015, 12:35 PM   #55
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Oh and also for the power steering, I rotated the stock pump counter clockwise 1/4 turn and built my own resovoir above it. I did have a motor plate to help me bolt stuff up too but it worked just fine. I welded a bung on the power steering pump. ( very hard material to weld) pretty sure the pump is cast steel. And you need to weld in timely sections so you don't cook internal seals.
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Old December 27th, 2015, 10:26 AM   #56
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Thanks for all the advice guys. That's super valuable information.

I'll work on pulling the power steering pump apart and figuring out where I can fit the reservoir.

For all lines around the front of the engine, including the power steering, I'm planning to convert everything to custom AN 37 degree hard lines to keep it clean and keep things out of the way.

As for the exhaust size, for my power goals and turbo size, I don't think I would ever outflow the 4". I'm only shooting for 900-1000. Same goes for the fuel. I would think that the -8 with -6 return would be enough to support that goal but I could be wrong.
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Old December 27th, 2015, 07:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZ SRT View Post
Thanks for all the advice guys. That's super valuable information.

I'll work on pulling the power steering pump apart and figuring out where I can fit the reservoir.

For all lines around the front of the engine, including the power steering, I'm planning to convert everything to custom AN 37 degree hard lines to keep it clean and keep things out of the way.

As for the exhaust size, for my power goals and turbo size, I don't think I would ever outflow the 4". I'm only shooting for 900-1000. Same goes for the fuel. I would think that the -8 with -6 return would be enough to support that goal but I could be wrong.

Zach, you want Banjo fittings on the PS rack, NOT AN hard lines. Banjos give you waaay more clearance especially if you are trying to stuff a 4" DP above the AC pump, through the PS rack/pump/reservior, frame and the factory brake hard lines.

As far as the fuel lines are concerned, you might have a problem with the -8 lines if not fed with a -10 because of the additional volume of the E-85. You have to keep in mind electric fuel pumps will flow less than their advertised amount if they have a restriction. You WILL have problems with fuel pressure creep or spiking with a -6 return again because of the additional volume of the E-85. You also might want to consider double checking the return orifice size of your current fuel pressure regulator. If it is too small, you will also have a problem with fuel pressure creep regardless of the sizing of your return line.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 12:05 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano View Post
Zach, you want Banjo fittings on the PS rack, NOT AN hard lines. Banjos give you waaay more clearance especially if you are trying to stuff a 4" DP above the AC pump, through the PS rack/pump/reservior, frame and the factory brake hard lines.

As far as the fuel lines are concerned, you might have a problem with the -8 lines if not fed with a -10 because of the additional volume of the E-85. You have to keep in mind electric fuel pumps will flow less than their advertised amount if they have a restriction. You WILL have problems with fuel pressure creep or spiking with a -6 return again because of the additional volume of the E-85. You also might want to consider double checking the return orifice size of your current fuel pressure regulator. If it is too small, you will also have a problem with fuel pressure creep regardless of the sizing of your return line.
Joel sent me a picture of the banjo fittings on his car. I'll plan to convert to those!

I have the larger aeromotive regulator setup for -10 inlets but it's still a -6 outlet. I'm pretty sure the orifice is -6 regardless. Also, my RSI fuel bucket is setup for -6 return but i'm pretty sure I could negate that issue. Also, the other problem is that I'm using a Gen 3 intake. It seems all the Gen 3 fuel rail setups are -8 in, and -6 return fittings out the bottom.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 03:47 PM   #59
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The twin 450 pump setup that you are running right now with the single -8 feed that is split to each rail then a single -6 return line is more than enough for 1000RWHP on E85. At the point that you are ready to convert to a triple pump setup then you can simply run a second -8 feed from the hanger up to the rail and you would want to stage the pumps so that 2 of them come on under boost. Just in case some bench racer wants to come tell you that you would have issues with this setup, please let them know that we are running 1500+HP cars on E85 with this exact setup and have no fuel pressure issues.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 04:19 PM   #60
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Quick threadjack- Will, is that the system that's on my car- twin 450s with a -8 on each and -6 return lines?

Last edited by tspargo; December 28th, 2015 at 04:36 PM.
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