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ZZ's '97 GTS- Single Turbo Build

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Old November 18th, 2015, 03:31 PM   #21
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I really like the smaller single set up.
Also cool to see you take on all the labour.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 04:13 PM   #22
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Great stuff!

I'm not a gas flow expert but the header setup with the 90 angle seems "wrong". The impulse (it is not just the gas pressure, the impulse too) from each cylinder hits the existing flow and impulse from the previous cylinders in a 90 angle. I does not even "know" which way it should go then, left or right? It partly works against the existing flow. I'd angle them a bit so the flow in the right direction is given.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 04:57 PM   #23
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This is a fucking EPIC thread!
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Old November 18th, 2015, 05:02 PM   #24
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Awesome thread.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 09:18 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by GnaeX View Post
Great stuff!

I'm not a gas flow expert but the header setup with the 90 angle seems "wrong". The impulse (it is not just the gas pressure, the impulse too) from each cylinder hits the existing flow and impulse from the previous cylinders in a 90 angle. I does not even "know" which way it should go then, left or right? It partly works against the existing flow. I'd angle them a bit so the flow in the right direction is given.
Exhaust is no different than any other media. It will take the path of least resistance. The amount of pressure drop across the 90's is almost negligible compared to the pressure being output by the cylinders. Trust me, it'll get there. Would curving each pipe towards the front be slightly less restricitive? Yes, but for my goals, the 90 degree log will do its job just fine.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 09:18 PM   #26
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Awesome build thread!
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Old November 19th, 2015, 12:25 AM   #27
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Another great at home garage build! Cant wait to see this transform keep up the good work zach.
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Old November 19th, 2015, 05:54 AM   #28
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Awesome writeup! Me and kitty are starting my build tonight!
True story.
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Old November 19th, 2015, 10:43 AM   #29
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True story.
I'm gonna single turbo my face apart. I initially wanted to go Roe, then remote turbo, then "Scotty" HVAC-hack turbo, then back to Roe; now I'm watching this thread: I want ZZs turbo kit.
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Old November 19th, 2015, 04:35 PM   #30
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very cool!
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Old November 19th, 2015, 06:56 PM   #31
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Very Nice! Those headers are something like Paolo's old manifolds. The one complaint with his design was that it was difficult to remove the plugs and wires melted easily from the heat. It appears that you have plenty of room between the plugs and tubing, but if not keep that in mind. Take a look at the spacing in mine if that helps any, I do not have any issues with with plug wires and am using the heat shields like yourself.

I believe Joel Fortin is using a set of those on his new setup. Maybe look at that for some routing ideas.

Remember if it's spaced too far out, I have seen it melt the inner fenders and blower motor intake housing due to the heat.

Looking forward to seeing it come together.
Eugene, I think you may have gotten a few things mixed up with all of the stuff I told you about all the different kinds of systems I have made throughout the years...

The (3) pics of my front mount cast log manifolds you posted were made to have plenty of spark plug boot clearance. The first two cylinders of the cast front mount manifold were used as the basis for the front and rear two cylinders on your side mount cast manifolds that have no spark plug boot clearance or melting problems.

Doc 1 never had any problems with spark plug boot clearance or burning up his plug wires with the castings with over 5,000 miles of driving on them without there even being any kind of heat shield or ceramic coating for that matter....

The original front mount fabricated manifolds made by Ed, however had spark plug boot clearance problems as the increasing diameter of the log going from the windshield to the front of the car did not have the appropriate offset from the cylinder head. The original side mount manifolds had a similar problem due to the same issue.

As far as the pics of what ZZ is trying to do, that is a great idea to re-do the manifolds to minimize bends and gas volume before the turbo, but I think it needs to have an elbow directing the flow towards the front like what I have done in the past. This is just my opinion...

If you use a .120 wall SS pipe, it has already has held the weight of a T-6 turbo without support. If you make a mount, then that mount will need to flex exactly as the motor mounts and chassis are doing otherwise you will be introducing more flex points for cracking period.

I will sell a pair of the cast front mount log manifolds with internal anti-reversion steps for the same price as my side mount ones which is $2,500.00 machined ceramic coated and ready to bolt on.

For that price, I do not see the need to redesign the wheel and try to make something else that will not be as good.

Good luck to ZZ!

What size is the exhaust wheel?

BTW, I would route the downpipe out the driver side as there is more frame clearance with the offset of the motor............ You could also dump the WG and the DP out of the hood like the T1 GTR! LOL!

Last edited by Paolo Castellano; November 20th, 2015 at 06:30 AM.
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Old November 19th, 2015, 10:51 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano View Post
Eugene, I think you may have gotten a few things mixed up with all of the stuff I told you about all the different kinds of systems I have made throughout the years...

The (3) pics of my front mount cast log manifolds you posted were made to have plenty of spark plug boot clearance. are the very same first two cylinders used as the basis for the front and rear two cylinders on your side mount cast manifolds that have no spark plug boot clearance or melting problems.

Doc 1 never had any problems with spark plug boot clearance or burning up his plug wires with the castings with over 5,000 miles of driving on them without there even being any kind of heat shield or ceramic coating for that matter....

The original front mount fabricated manifolds made by Ed, however had spark plug boot clearance problems as the increasing diameter of the log going from the windshield to the front of the car did not have the appropriate offset from the cylinder head. The original side mount manifolds had a similar problem due to the same issue.

As far as the pics of what ZZ is trying to do, that is a great idea to re-do the manifolds to minimize bends and gas volume before the turbo, but I think it needs to have an elbow directing the flow towards the front like what I have done in the past. This is just my opinion...

If you use a .120 wall SS pipe, it has already has held the weight of a T-6 turbo without support. If you make a mount, then that mount will need to flex exactly as the motor mounts and chassis are doing otherwise you will be introducing more flex points for cracking period.

I will sell a pair of the cast front mount log manifolds with internal anti-reversion steps for the same price as my side mount ones which is $2,500.00 machined ceramic coated and ready to bolt on.

For that price, I do not see the need to redesign the wheel and try to make something else that will not be as good.

Good luck to ZZ!

What size is the exhaust wheel?

BTW, I would route the downpipe out the driver side as there is more frame clearance with the offset of the motor............ You could also dump the WG and the DP out of the hood like the T1 GTR! LOL!
Gen 2 hoods are cheap anyway!
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Old November 20th, 2015, 06:27 AM   #33
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Gen 2 hoods are cheap anyway!
Steve Dreyer from Autoform has some Gen 2 hoods available for a fair price. 616-392-4909

Steve has the molds and can make whatever whenever he wants according to demand!

Last edited by Paolo Castellano; November 20th, 2015 at 07:30 AM.
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Old November 20th, 2015, 06:32 AM   #34
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Gen 2 hoods are cheap anyway!
While the supplies last. Which is not going to be too much longer. Then they will go back up again.
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 10:51 AM   #35
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Awesome build and great craftsmanship! Looking forward to seeing what she makes when complete.

Was your Paxton setup maxed out? I was under the impression they were good for quite a bit more then 700rw?
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 04:22 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano View Post
Eugene, I think you may have gotten a few things mixed up with all of the stuff I told you about all the different kinds of systems I have made throughout the years...

The (3) pics of my front mount cast log manifolds you posted were made to have plenty of spark plug boot clearance. The first two cylinders of the cast front mount manifold were used as the basis for the front and rear two cylinders on your side mount cast manifolds that have no spark plug boot clearance or melting problems.

Doc 1 never had any problems with spark plug boot clearance or burning up his plug wires with the castings with over 5,000 miles of driving on them without there even being any kind of heat shield or ceramic coating for that matter....

The original front mount fabricated manifolds made by Ed, however had spark plug boot clearance problems as the increasing diameter of the log going from the windshield to the front of the car did not have the appropriate offset from the cylinder head. The original side mount manifolds had a similar problem due to the same issue.

As far as the pics of what ZZ is trying to do, that is a great idea to re-do the manifolds to minimize bends and gas volume before the turbo, but I think it needs to have an elbow directing the flow towards the front like what I have done in the past. This is just my opinion...

If you use a .120 wall SS pipe, it has already has held the weight of a T-6 turbo without support. If you make a mount, then that mount will need to flex exactly as the motor mounts and chassis are doing otherwise you will be introducing more flex points for cracking period.

I will sell a pair of the cast front mount log manifolds with internal anti-reversion steps for the same price as my side mount ones which is $2,500.00 machined ceramic coated and ready to bolt on.

For that price, I do not see the need to redesign the wheel and try to make something else that will not be as good.

Good luck to ZZ!

What size is the exhaust wheel?

BTW, I would route the downpipe out the driver side as there is more frame clearance with the offset of the motor............ You could also dump the WG and the DP out of the hood like the T1 GTR! LOL!
Paolo, thanks for the clarification and advice. I agree your cast manifolds would flow better than mine and be a nicer, cleaner solution. This build is really about myself wanting to develop my fab skills instead of buying parts and bolting them on like I have on builds in the past. If things go poorly for me I'll keep that option in mind!

Interesting that the driver side has more clearance than the passenger for the down pipe. It seems like there is very little room with the power steering reservoir and the A/C compressor. I've considered designing and machining a bracket to move the power steering pump and reservoir in towards the center more.

I'm either planning on going full racecar and dumping it out the front bumper in front of the passenger wheel, or will run it below my log manifold on the passenger side and out the front of the side sill like Scotty's setup. We will see once I get to that point. I'm hoping with E85 the fumes won't be as noxious in the car with the exhaust dumping forward of the windows.
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 04:25 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by F8LVENOM View Post
Awesome build and great craftsmanship! Looking forward to seeing what she makes when complete.

Was your Paxton setup maxed out? I was under the impression they were good for quite a bit more then 700rw?
My numbers were definitely on the "low" side for a 2.75" pulley. The tune was pretty conservative from a timing standpoint. I also had no headwork done which I'm sure wasn't helping my situation.
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 07:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by ZZ SRT View Post
Paolo, thanks for the clarification and advice. I agree your cast manifolds would flow better than mine and be a nicer, cleaner solution. This build is really about myself wanting to develop my fab skills instead of buying parts and bolting them on like I have on builds in the past. If things go poorly for me I'll keep that option in mind!

Interesting that the driver side has more clearance than the passenger for the down pipe. It seems like there is very little room with the power steering reservoir and the A/C compressor. I've considered designing and machining a bracket to move the power steering pump and reservoir in towards the center more.

I'm either planning on going full racecar and dumping it out the front bumper in front of the passenger wheel, or will run it below my log manifold on the passenger side and out the front of the side sill like Scotty's setup. We will see once I get to that point. I'm hoping with E85 the fumes won't be as noxious in the car with the exhaust dumping forward of the windows.
Zach, If you just use .120 wall SS tubing, it will be easy to hole saw cut the proper fish mouth on the straights after you shape the d-port into the other end of the straight piece. You will need to use a hole saw the same size as the OD of your main log. Once you shape all the straight pieces with the d-ports, it will be easy to mark each piece for the proper length and clocking for the hole saw cuts to have nice tight fitment for great welds!

You will of course, have to relocate the power steering pump inward and possibly have a remote reservoir if you wish to route the exhaust out the driver side. A 4" pipe slightly ovalized will clear the driver side frame and such more easily than it will on the passenger side.

I was not joking about routing the exhaust out the hood as you can get one relatively cheaply as compared to years past from Steve @ Autoform. Dump the wastegate into the exhaust and the exhaust out the hood. The fumes of dumping the (especially E-85) exhaust in front of the door window inlets is toxic with the windows open or closed unless you're going really fast because if you have any kind of blower motor on for defrosting or AC, you will have exhaust being sucked into the car. If you route the exhaust out the front of the side sill you will have a bunch of fab work getting the exhaust out and you will be cutting holes in factory side sills that are becoming scarcer and scarcer and are $4K + each the last time I checked IF you can even buy them. If you get an aftermarket hood and dump the exhaust out the hood, it's waay easier fabrication-wise and cheaper in the long run not to mention lighter......

Good luck!

Last edited by Paolo Castellano; November 25th, 2015 at 10:28 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 09:37 PM   #39
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Paolo is right about the exits in front of the door. I can remember driving around like that and nearly dying.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 02:10 PM   #40
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wow. great fucking work dude. This car will be a beast for sure !
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Any single-turbo guys out there? Mr. Hollywood Viper Discussions - Gen III & IV SRT 14 November 25th, 2005 04:54 AM



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