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New Brake Product for 92-02 models

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New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 13th, 2004, 06:50 PM   #1
 
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New Brake Product for 92-02 models

My name is Ken and I'd like to say hello to the Viper community and introduce my company, TPM Products and the RacingBrake rotors we produce.

Our philosophy is simple - to produce the highest quality bolt on brake rotors suitable for track day use. We've seen a lot of supposed performance rotors on the track that are in fact quite the opposite and we are confident that our engineering, materials and design will show through when it counts. We have worked with several teams in other applications (mostly WRX's and STi's) with great success and look forward to serving the Viper community.

We specialize in performance cast iron formulations that increase the strength and thermal capabilities of brake rotors and use other design features to enhance the performance of the product.

For Vipers we have designed our rotors with the following features -
-Curved vane design (our tooling) both front and rear flows more air and provides additional heat sink mass

-Alloyed gray iron has 20-25% greater tensile strength to reduce belling and warping

-Rotors are heat treated to improve grain structure

-High carbon content and uniform microstructure lead to good friction characteristics and wear pattern

-Extremely tight tolerances on runout, plate thickness variation, and balance for reliable, consistent performance

-Ball end mill slotted for gas relief, pad deglazing and pedal response

-Double disc ground friction surfaces for easy pad bedding and break in

-And some bling cause we all need a little - a glossy black EDP finish.

We are very active in the racing community particularily the 'weekend warrior' who is looking for reliable products to enhance his/hers cars performance at reasonable prices. Primarily we contend that you can make a better rotor by improving the grade of iron used and have demonstrated some pretty good success with the teams we have already worked with.

Some information we do like to get is exactly how the Viper reacts to the various brake upgrades that are available. For example - does the car need more front or rear bias - what pads work well on the car - does the car tend to eat brakes (it wouldn't be a size issue thats for sure - we had to make a new box to fit them in) etc.

We also like to educate people about brakes whenever we can. For example "Should I get drilled or slotted or plain rotors?" Drilled rotors on a viper? Not if your racing that's for sure. Racing pads on a street car - not if you live in Michigan and drive in cold weather.

I asked Michael about posting here and I certainly wouldn't consider doing so unless he gave me permission. He said OK as long as it wasn't simply an ad with a phone number so I tried to present the technical data behind our products and we are always looking for end user feedback to improve and learn from.

Ken
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 13th, 2004, 06:55 PM   #2
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

How about posting prices, available sizes, are these one piece or 2 piece, weight, and so forth.
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 13th, 2004, 07:17 PM   #3
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

These are one piece OE replacement rotors that fit all 92-02 models.

In '03 Dodge started changing things around a bit - a new front and rear rotor (14" dia.). Then in '04 they took away the rear rotor and now both front and rear are the same as the '03 front.

The fronts weighed in at 22.69 lbs (aren't you glad you have a V10!) and the rears are a paltry 15.7 lbs. Yeah, thats each. Both are a smidge heavier then the stock ones we measured (mass where you can use it)

Retail pricing will be set by our dealers (when we get some [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img] ).

We are setting up jobber pricing etc. as we speak. They just became available now and go through quality control before I can actually sell them.

Ken
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 13th, 2004, 07:31 PM   #4
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models


I think a front set of OEM rotors is $200, at that price I treat them almost as a consumable, especially with track pad compounds. The Viper has nearly no rear bias so the rear rotors last forever.

Also, how long does that black finish last, 1 stop?

I'm not flaming you, we can always use another rotor source but its highly price/feature dependent I think at this point because we already have various rotor sources from OEM, Eradispeed, StopTech, etc. If you want to be successful you'll need to come out of the gate swinging at the current contenders and explain why you're better.
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 13th, 2004, 07:38 PM   #5
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Mark
I think a front set of OEM rotors is $200, at that price I treat them almost as a consumable, especially with track pad compounds. The Viper has nearly no rear bias so the rear rotors last forever.

Also, how long does that black finish last, 1 stop?

I'm not flaming you, we can always use another rotor source but its highly price/feature dependent I think at this point because we already have various rotor sources from OEM, Eradispeed, StopTech, etc. If you want to be successful you'll need to come out of the gate swinging at the current contenders and explain why you're better.


if your going for the stock replacement aspect they should be cheap enough you can throw them away when the track pads rip them to pieces. If they are going to be priced with the eradispeed stuff they should surely be way lighter and possibly come with a blow job from a hot blond :thumb:
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 13th, 2004, 10:58 PM   #6
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

Questions about the hows and whys of my products aren't flames. They are simply questions. The same things I ask about products before buying.

The coating is a zinc based high heat paint. The electro static process insures that it applies very uniformly over the entire rotor particularly inside the vanes etc. unlike metallic plating which does not cover uniformly. On the hat and hub area it holds up well. High rotor heat will burn it off in some areas similarly to cadmium and/or zinc plating.

At least you admit that rotors are consumable especially on a race car. Try explaining that to a Civic owner with a wing, tailights and bodykit. (ugh)

The design features of our rotors are there to improve performance and longevity as much as possible given what we have to work with which is the original design of the vehicle brake system. (Rotor diameter, thickness etc)

In this case curved vanes flow more air which reduces the operating temperature. This achieves two goals. First, the onset of brake fade is delayed as the rotor can dissipate more heat and second, it can keep the rotor temps down in the range where the material can maintain its mechanical properties. Gray iron loses its strength and hardness properties rapidly as temperature exceeds 550 deg F. The cooler a rotor can run the longer it should last.

At the same time we use a stronger alloy that has high carbon content. This absorbs and transfers more heat (carbon is the heat sink and transfer mechanism in gray iron) and resists warping/belling as a hot rotor tries to expand and twist itself.

Lastly we heat treat the rotor which stress relieves the iron. Dislocations in the grain structure are 'rearranged' which also strengthens the part and 'pre seasons' it.

In the end I'd expect increased life and performance. Is it going to be the edge that gets you around the last lap without fading brakes? Don't know as that is way too complicated to predict. Will it last twice as long as OEM types. Again I'd be foolish to try and promise something like that. What I do know is that it is probably the best one piece rotor you can buy bar none and it should rival more expensive 2- piece direct replacement rotors in all aspects except for the small weight reduction you get from those designs. (which incidentally we make for some applications as well) In fact we supply rotor rings to some brands specifically for that purpose.

My racing customers thus far are very happy with our products and I see no reason why that won't continue. We could have spent a zillion bucks on the obliging blond and lots of magazine ads but instead we hired a bunch of engineering geeks like me to get all excited about alloys and other such stuff. Then I go get customers the hard way like I'm doing here. I know exactly where and how some other kit suppliers get there castings and how there made and I know how we do it.
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 10:51 AM   #7
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

Sounds good to me. You could roast marshmellows on my rotors after a 30 minute track session. You should give an expected msrp or something at least though. If you need a reseller, you could use Jon B at Partsrack(.com). A lot of us buy stuff from him and having the rotors in the same spot would work well.

[whoring]
Another suggestion would be to send somebody on here a free set (just fronts would be fine) and let them try them at the track and report back. You could also pitch in a set for one of our monthly giveaways.
[/whoring]
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 02:28 PM   #8
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

Pictures?
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 02:37 PM   #9
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Mark
[whoring]
Another suggestion would be to send somebody on here a free set (just fronts would be fine) and let them try them at the track and report back. You could also pitch in a set for one of our monthly giveaways.
[/whoring]
Hey, remember a lot of use have dodge trucks as well, their brake rotors suck big time.
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 05:05 PM   #10
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

I like all that.......and roasted marshmallows....

Except the free part.....free stuff is worth $0.00.

And unfortunately I don't have millions of these available just yet. We do our first productions in smaller quantities and try to gain market share part number by part number (we sell lots of subie brakes - especially to the track guys)

What I would do is make an offer through this place for the first set or two or sixteen at a fat discount in exchange for a track testing evaluation.

[hide head]List for fronts is $450/pr, rear $420/pr. Retailers usually give a 10-15% discount off of list[/hide head]
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 05:06 PM   #11
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

And I can get a pic or two up....do I have to host it myself and link like most forums? Anyone...Bueller?
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 05:10 PM   #12
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantsam
And I can get a pic or two up....do I have to host it myself and link like most forums? Anyone...Bueller?
Sam:

Perfect time to become a site sponsor and get some on site storage. :thumb:
Hit the little button at the bottom of the screen and check it out. It'll likely help with your sales too. [img]/images/graemlins/wink[/img]
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 05:29 PM   #13
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

I can probably shake loose a few benjamins for the site....i mean georges....(I drive a Honda - a slow one)

I'd do it in my name though....
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 05:36 PM   #14
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

To post a picture see the top of the page, look for photos. Register adn upload. Once the photo is processed, right click, click on properties, highlight the address and put it in when you post(look for the "image" link.
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 05:40 PM   #15
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

No need to even go that far. When you reply to this post, hit "Preview Reply" instead of "continue". There is a simple option to attach a file, ie, your picture. Click "browse", select your picture, and then submit.
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 05:49 PM   #16
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

...if you didn't look at your competition:

set of 4, 2 piece Baer Eradispeeds = $895
set of 4, 1 piece EBC (slotted & dimpled) = $569
set of 2, 1 piece Stoptech (slotted) = $389
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 06:33 PM   #17
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

Oh I sure have seen that stuff - about a million times while I was waiting for tooling to work right and hearing piles of scrap build up....

any feedback on the Stoptech?......its a Centric rotor I think...G3000 material rotor
EBC = no comment
Baer = dba ring w/ their hat

I'll stick my head on the block and say mine is the better one - sans the weight advantage of the Baer. But don't you have like 800 lb-ft of torque [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 07:04 PM   #18
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

Ok, I'm trying to help here. Let's make it easy. StopTech makes some nice packages, and I've even met the guys at the track where they were doing research on pad compounds and rotor wear characteristics. They're helpful with any questions I have, install, etc. Why would I choose your rotors over the StopTechs?

I can appreciate you're just getting going with this, or testing the waters, but you didn't give us much. You didn't post a pic, or a website, or anything. Help us help you.
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 07:16 PM   #19
 
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

If your talking $800+/set for these rotors they really should be quite a bit lighter and possibly in a 2 piece design. Yes these cars do make a ton of hp, but at the same time if you drop $6k on lightweight race wheels why put all that to waste with some boat anchor rotors. Heavy rotors are bad in many ways, it's adding to the unsprung weight and weighing down the wheels, which have a much bigger effect than a few lbs of dead weight. Honestly for the weight and price they need to last forever regardless of conditions (not likely) or you don't have a leg to stand on in this market.
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models
Old July 14th, 2004, 10:23 PM   #20
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Re: New Brake Product for 92-02 models

One-piece won't stay cool enough for me. I'm in dire need for some two-piece for my Stoptechs.
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