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Gen 2 Cam Sensor

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Old July 8th, 2015, 12:09 PM   #101
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The next one will cost more.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 12:43 PM   #102
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hopefully someone starts making it because I just cant afford to pay that kind of money for a sensor
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Old July 8th, 2015, 12:52 PM   #103
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hopefully someone starts making it because I just cant afford to pay that kind of money for a sensor
Someone will.
There are companies that work on gen 1 and 2 vipers almost exclusively. Imagine if, overnight, they lost half of their customer base because they've all sold their cars out of fear of being stuck in the very same situation. Trust me, SOMEONE will figure it out. I doubt Viper will be brought to its knees over a fucking sensor. If it does, the "Hey look I own a Viper" club will be decreasing its members, and I'm talking hand over fist.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 12:54 PM   #104
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Hey. Cam sensor hoarders gotta put their kids thru college somehow.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 01:54 PM   #105
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Someone will.
There are companies that work on gen 1 and 2 vipers almost exclusively. Imagine if, overnight, they lost half of their customer base because they've all sold their cars out of fear of being stuck in the very same situation. Trust me, SOMEONE will figure it out. I doubt Viper will be brought to its knees over a fucking sensor. If it does, the "Hey look I own a Viper" club will be decreasing its members, and I'm talking hand over fist.

Agreed. Too many stand to lose money if we can't drive these things.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 02:34 PM   #106
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Cam sensors shmam sensors. Who needs them to go fast.


On the other side of that vendor fence, what if the only way to get one from them was as an engine customer? That would solidify business, not hurt it.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 03:30 PM   #107
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Can someone educate me on why Dodge used both a Crank and Cam sensor? If the cam is just moving at half the rate of the crank, couldn't you just infer that data? Same as far as detecting engine load, timing cycle, etc.

It's evident that when one goes out the ECM throws a fit so it's not meant to be redundant.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 03:43 PM   #108
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I think the crank sensor is for TDC.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 06:39 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gage View Post
Can someone educate me on why Dodge used both a Crank and Cam sensor? If the cam is just moving at half the rate of the crank, couldn't you just infer that data? Same as far as detecting engine load, timing cycle, etc.

It's evident that when one goes out the ECM throws a fit so it's not meant to be redundant.
In the case of Gen-1/2/3, the crankshaft contains 10 slots, which determine the location of TDC for each cylinder. However, the crankshaft sensor is unable to determine engine phase or cylinder trigger identification, as these five sets of slot pairs are evenly spaced with no particular orientation, which is where the Cam sensor comes in. The high/low step of the cam indicates whether the engine is on the 360 or 720 phase, and the edge location window will allow the PCM to determine which cylinder gap is coming next, at which time it will begin the firing order count. This is the same for any engine with a Cam sensor, as crank sensors are unable to read a 720 phase as the crankshaft operates only in 360 phase. This setup is simple, but it is less precise, and slower to gain phase than later systems as the crankshaft by itself if unable to determine 360 phase and TDC.

In the case of Gen-4/5, the crankshaft has a missing tooth to determine orientation, and 6x the number of triggers; which means that the PCM can indeed determine TDC/cylinder location without the camshaft. However, it still requires the cam sensor to determine engine phase. The cam/crank triggers are also used to determine camshaft position, which is why it is a more complicated system requiring higher precision than earlier trigger systems. Because the Crank is capable of 360 phase detection alone, Gen-4/5 will also get to 720 phase/engine run slightly faster than earlier cars, which may require up to 2 rotations to gain any phase detection.

Also worthy of note is that in the case of a lost Cam signal, Gen-1/2/3 will stall, as it requires the signal to retain sync in a noisy environment. Without cam, as soon as it misses a trigger event, the count is off, and the engine is running incorrectly. In the case of Gen-4/5, if the cam signal is lost, the engine can keep running, as the missing tooth allows the crankshaft position to be corrected every revolution, and it would never be more than a few degrees off in between correction, which allows it to continue running properly. Losing phase on this system would require it to lose over 60 trigger events... not going to happen.
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Last edited by Final GTS; July 9th, 2015 at 11:19 AM.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 12:59 AM   #110
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Thanks for the info Final GTS, this is helpful. I'm still learning alot about engine management so to make sure I'm clear on the terminology: engine phase corresponds to where a given cylinder is at in it's power cycle, since 4 stroke motors have 2 full revolutions of the crank between ignition events per cylinder. Or is that already derived from TDC calculations as dave mentioned?
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Old July 9th, 2015, 10:39 AM   #111
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I'm confused, just called my local AutoZone # SU3018 Duralast cam sensor for Dodge Viper $46.00 next day availability. This won't work?
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Old July 9th, 2015, 10:42 AM   #112
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I'm confused, just called my local AutoZone # SU3018 Duralast cam sensor for Dodge Viper $46.00 next day availability. This won't work?
Buy them ALL.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 10:43 AM   #113
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I just tried to place the order on line. As soon as I went to the shopping cart to pay it deleted the items.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 10:44 AM   #114
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Buy them ALL.
All of the none?
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Old July 9th, 2015, 10:51 AM   #115
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Quote:
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I'm confused, just called my local AutoZone # SU3018 Duralast cam sensor for Dodge Viper $46.00 next day availability. This won't work?
AutoZone doesn't have it, it's discontinued. Tried all of the obvious Napa, Auto Zone, AdvanceAuto, SensorsRUs.....all gone and un-obtanium ala Discontinued. I contacted my friends at Echlin.....NOTHING. Asked my local Napa store what I should Viper owners should do next. He send "Bend Over and hope used ones can be found". There you go.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 10:52 AM   #116
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I just tried to place the order on line. As soon as I went to the shopping cart to pay it deleted the items.
Made a follow up call back to AZ and now they see it is on back order.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 10:55 AM   #117
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Made a follow up call back to AZ and now they see it is on back order.
Yeah um I was ordering those 2 for you bro
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Old July 9th, 2015, 11:20 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by gage View Post
Thanks for the info Final GTS, this is helpful. I'm still learning alot about engine management so to make sure I'm clear on the terminology: engine phase corresponds to where a given cylinder is at in it's power cycle, since 4 stroke motors have 2 full revolutions of the crank between ignition events per cylinder. Or is that already derived from TDC calculations as dave mentioned?

Your first assumption is correct. There are two TDC events per 720 cycle, and the engine needs to know which is which.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 11:22 AM   #119
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Yeah um I was ordering those 2 for you bro
Lier.

So you can't MacGyver one from another engine? Are they engine specific that they can't be modified? Does anyone have a bad one I can have, I'd pay the shipping.

Last edited by b5blue; July 9th, 2015 at 11:43 AM. Reason: b5blue
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Old July 9th, 2015, 11:33 AM   #120
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Yes. They are being McGyvered left and right.
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