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Voltage regulator issue?

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Voltage regulator issue?
Old March 14th, 2015, 06:50 PM   #1
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Voltage regulator issue?

Hi guys,
I am brand new to this forum and Viper ownership so sorry if this is a feeble question. My car is a 99 GTS all stock 6,200 miles. I have only driven it a few times but the voltage gage reads very high, or at least it seems like it does to me. The gage always reads almost 16 volts constantly. No matter if A/C is on or lights etc.. I checked output voltage off the alternator with the car idling cold and it reads 15.88 volts. The service manual says that the voltage regulation is controlled by the PCM
Question 1. Am I reading this correctly?
Question 2. Is this a normal Viper condition?
Question 3. What is the fix if this is not a normal situation?
I'm a diehard Mopar head and can restore 68-71 hemi cars blindfolded but this is a little new to me with all the computer stuff.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 07:11 AM   #2
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Old March 15th, 2015, 07:45 AM   #3
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Old March 15th, 2015, 07:55 AM   #4
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15.88V is too high. I worked in a factory for a time that built alternators and regulators. The normal output for an alternator is 14.2V-14.5V. Any more than that and you start damaging your battery.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 10:50 AM   #5
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Old March 15th, 2015, 11:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparchris View Post
Hi guys,
I am brand new to this forum and Viper ownership so sorry if this is a feeble question. My car is a 99 GTS all stock 6,200 miles.
Because of the low miles, I wouldn't have the PCM as my number one suspect unless maybe someone jumped the car incorrectly. However, that voltage is too high, for sure.
I am not familiar with the open loop performance of an alternator, or with various faults and their symptoms; but, I would look for something related to age or non-use.
I would first look for corrosion in the plug contacts on the alternator. Try to clean both contact surfaces.

I don't know if a bad brush contact inside the Alt. could cause this. Take the alternator off and take it to Autozone or a rebuilder shop and have it tested.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 11:32 AM   #7
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Yup... too high. I have seen more than one PCM with a popped regulator.

For the same of dollars and "sense", if you can swap the PCM or Alternator with another car just to test the theory, I would recommend doing so. Alternators are not cheap... and PCM's are REALLY not cheap, so better to be sure.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 12:10 PM   #8
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You can get an alternator rebuilt very cheaply. I had one done here in Ft. Worth and It was extremely reasonable.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 01:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ02 View Post
You can get an alternator rebuilt very cheaply. I had one done here in Ft. Worth and It was extremely reasonable.
In all reality, the likelihood that it is the Alternator is extremely remote. However, the simple fact that its the cheaper option makes it worth checking first. Rebuilding the alternator does not allow the option of substitution to rule it out, hence it would have a high likelihood of flushing the money down the drain given the low chance its actually the cause.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 03:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Final GTS View Post
In all reality, the likelihood that it is the Alternator is extremely remote. However, the simple fact that its the cheaper option makes it worth checking first. Rebuilding the alternator does not allow the option of substitution to rule it out, hence it would have a high likelihood of flushing the money down the drain given the low chance its actually the cause.
The Alt. on my 99 went bad. Swapped it out, fixed the issue. I was damn glad it wasn't the PCM.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 03:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99RT10>S View Post
The Alt. on my 99 went bad. Swapped it out, fixed the issue. I was damn glad it wasn't the PCM.
Not at all surprising. But generally, when an alternator fails, it fails Low. His is reading High, which usually is a PCM or wiring issue, as the driver for the alternator field is being excessively driven. That's either due to a faulty reading at the voltage regulator input reference internal the ECU, the PWM driver on its way out and is excessively sunk or partially stuck to ground, or the control wire between the Alt and ECU is grounding out somewhere. Again, the latter is more unlikely, as his error is stable and offset, not randomly high/low or extremely excessive.

All that said, it is not impossible that the field control diode inside the alternator is bad. It would be a very "special" failure... but anything is possible.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 08:25 AM   #12
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I've actually had a few fail high. The one in my 77 Vette (not computer controlled) had an output of 18 volts when it failed.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 09:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ02 View Post
I've actually had a few fail high. The one in my 77 Vette (not computer controlled) had an output of 18 volts when it failed.
Different situation. Older alternators had internal regulators. If the internal regulator fails, it can certainly fail high. Newer alternators have the regulator in the PCM instead, which more or less separates out the failure types.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 11:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Final GTS View Post
Newer alternators have the regulator in the PCM instead, which more or less separates out the failure types.
And makes it 20-30 times more expensive to fix, at least for a DIY guy. Is there anyone (you?) that repairs a Viper PCM for something like this?
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Old March 16th, 2015, 12:43 PM   #15
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And makes it 20-30 times more expensive to fix, at least for a DIY guy. Is there anyone (you?) that repairs a Viper PCM for something like this?
We can, yes. Unfortunately, the Gen-2 PCM's are very rarely worth fixing for such an issue. Regulator issues are quite difficult to test, as it is not a bench-testable parameter. Add that to the Gen-2 PCM being a folded-case design that is a huge nightmare to service, and the reality is that unless the failure is obvious and/or easily testable, its not worth the service time. The ECU would just end up being stripped for its components, or tossed into a pile for repair when they are impossible to get in the future and thus worth even more than they already are.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 01:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Final GTS View Post
We can, yes. Unfortunately, the Gen-2 PCM's are very rarely worth fixing for such an issue. Regulator issues are quite difficult to test, as it is not a bench-testable parameter. Add that to the Gen-2 PCM being a folded-case design that is a huge nightmare to service, and the reality is that unless the failure is obvious and/or easily testable, its not worth the service time. The ECU would just end up being stripped for its components, or tossed into a pile for repair when they are impossible to get in the future and thus worth even more than they already are.
That's pretty much what I assumed ! I have read about an external voltage regulator kit on the Jeep forums for Chrysler Corp systems that use a regulator inside the PCM; but, I don't know if it is specifically compatible with Viper. It could possibly be a cost effective solution.

ERCKFRM Combo - Heavy Duty Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep External Voltage Regulator Kit with Field Replacement Module
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Old March 16th, 2015, 01:52 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by jslimm View Post
That's pretty much what I assumed ! I have read about an external voltage regulator kit on the Jeep forums for Chrysler Corp systems that use a regulator inside the PCM; but, I don't know if it is specifically compatible with Viper. It could possibly be a cost effective solution.

ERCKFRM Combo - Heavy Duty Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep External Voltage Regulator Kit with Field Replacement Module
That would be the best, cheapest fix. If all else is working on the PCM, just use an external voltage regulator.
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Old March 17th, 2015, 05:43 PM   #18
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Thank you guys for all of the valuable input. I am tending to view this as a either a short or a PCM situation. The only other item I have considered is the Battery Temp. sensor. If this were bad could this cause the voltage to always be high?
I like the sound of the external regulator retro-fit. that was mentioned. Can anyone point me in that direction? Since it sounds like the PCM deal is very expensive, maybe the external regulator would be the way to go.
Thanks again.
I sure do enjoy driving this car.
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Old March 17th, 2015, 05:52 PM   #19
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After I typed the 1st reply I realized there was a link to the retro-fit kit in one of the above threads. I have found the source for the retro-fit kit. My next questions is:
If there is indeed a problem with the voltage regulator function in the PCM, would that show up as a fault code if I plugged a code reader into the vehicle?
Thanks
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Old March 17th, 2015, 06:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparchris View Post
Thank you guys for all of the valuable input. I am tending to view this as a either a short or a PCM situation. The only other item I have considered is the Battery Temp. sensor. If this were bad could this cause the voltage to always be high?
I like the sound of the external regulator retro-fit. that was mentioned. Can anyone point me in that direction? Since it sounds like the PCM deal is very expensive, maybe the external regulator would be the way to go.
Thanks again.
I sure do enjoy driving this car.
You just jogged my memory (old guy ) and I remembered that my alt was putting out a bit too much ( maybe 15 V ) about 2 years ago. I discovered that the batt temp sensor was all nasty and when I changed it all went back to normal.
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