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SCT + Roe S/C

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SCT + Roe S/C
Old May 25th, 2014, 02:17 PM   #1
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SCT + Roe S/C

I'm just curious if everyone running a SCT tune is still having to use a VEC to supplement the tuning on their Roe supercharger. If so what is the SCT not able to do? If you are just tuning with the SCT on your S/C, what issues are you having with tuning?

I'm just still unsure of the SCT but my VEC3 is holding me back from getting any tuning done because of all the connection problems to my laptop and not wanting to log. I'm about fed up with it but want to know the SCT isn't gong to be just as problematic, or that I'll still need the VEC since it is unreliable right now.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 04:05 PM   #2
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Are you trying to go USB to serial or vice versa? That can be a HUGE headache with the VEC let alone even an AEM with RS232 connection. I have the adapters that work perfectly with them if needed, nearly 90% of all the adapters do not work correctly.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 04:42 PM   #3
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There are a couple who are tuning with it. Dan Lesser, Torrie from Unleashed, not sure who else. From what i have read, the factory map has to be swapped out for a 2 bar.

I would contact one of those guys if you have more technical questions.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 06:05 PM   #4
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SCT will work fine by itself, but you can't log off the 9550 model. I believe the new SCT has some ODB-II logging features. I use PCMSCAN to do my logging. You can bring Innovate (and other) wide ban data into PCMSCAN but I haven't taken the time to do that. Biggest issue with the SCT is to get a MAP sensor that corresponds to the max boost you intend to achieve. That way, you can scale the fuel and timing cells in the SCT software appropriately.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #5
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Are you trying to go USB to serial or vice versa? That can be a HUGE headache with the VEC let alone even an AEM with RS232 connection. I have the adapters that work perfectly with them if needed, nearly 90% of all the adapters do not work correctly.
Never had any problems with that. I always use my old laptop with XP and serial port for tuning. But it's the VEC itself that is having issues. I talked to Sean about it and he's never seen these errors before and honestly doesn't have time to mess with the VEC anymore.
I tried another laptop with a fresh install of the VEC software and had the same issues.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 08:48 PM   #6
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SCT will work fine by itself, but you can't log off the 9550 model. I believe the new SCT has some ODB-II logging features. I use PCMSCAN to do my logging. You can bring Innovate (and other) wide ban data into PCMSCAN but I haven't taken the time to do that. Biggest issue with the SCT is to get a MAP sensor that corresponds to the max boost you intend to achieve. That way, you can scale the fuel and timing cells in the SCT software appropriately.
Eric,
I'll be buying a new SCT with tuning software so I hope it'll come with logging capability. That is just another reason I've been putting off on an SCT. I feel like I'll need to buy more electronics to replace the VEC. I'll need a way to log and a way to control my W/M injection. The VEC does both of those.
I intend to run the 10# pulley, so maybe hit 12psi with my 2.8H. That means a 2bar MAP sensor.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 06:44 AM   #7
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I'm using the old SCT (no logging) and PCMSCAN to data log. I installed a 2-bar MAP and relocated it directly to the manifold to eliminate response lag. Dan @ VSP is doing my tuning. No VEC is being used nor has it ever been discussed.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 09:24 AM   #8
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Good to hear Dave. I'm also going to mount my MAP on the manifold. I really don't want to have to keep the VEC in the system long term after I switch over to the SCT. And I definitely want logging capability so I don't have to add another gadget that could fail or have issues. I like simple.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 11:56 AM   #9
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I originally wanted to just go with just an SCT, but after Sean did some testing with it he felt the VEC/SCT combo would work best for my set up ([email protected],heads,cam, high flows,water meth). Maybe he didn't want to put more time into it and took the easier route, but he kept on having issues with the adaptives in closed loop driving. It runs fine with both systems and if I have any issues I'll probably just mod my intake like Elllow's and run the SCT only. Sean and Torrie both dyno tuned mine so they would be the ones to talk to if you're interested in running the VEC/SCT combo.

Last edited by 1badvr4; May 26th, 2014 at 12:28 PM.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 01:10 PM   #10
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Why not run the AEM?
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Old May 26th, 2014, 01:54 PM   #11
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I just came back from a nice drive and the SCT tuned ROE is just wonderful. I use a Cooling Mist progressive controller with the integrated digital vacuum/boost gauge...plus it has a programmable output circuit that lets me activate my additional fuel pump at a set boost. So I get the benefits of what the old VEC used to provide as far as controlling a W/M pump and an additional assessory. ITs pricy though...$250.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 04:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badvr4 View Post
I originally wanted to just go with just an SCT, but after Sean did some testing with it he felt the VEC/SCT combo would work best for my set up ([email protected],heads,cam, high flows,water meth). Maybe he didn't want to put more time into it and took the easier route, but he kept on having issues with the adaptives in closed loop driving. It runs fine with both systems and if I have any issues I'll probably just mod my intake like Elllow's and run the SCT only. Sean and Torrie both dyno tuned mine so they would be the ones to talk to if you're interested in running the VEC/SCT combo.
This sounds very similar to my setup. What dyno #s are you at with it? I'm excited to see what my 2.8H will do. I don't have a cam or any cats.
I talked to Sean about tuning with the SCT and he recommended the same VEC/SCT combo you have for those reasons. I would like to forgo that mess of a bandaid for the SCT injector trims. I may have to tear the whole thing apart and do the plenum like Eric did to cure it :P
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Old May 26th, 2014, 04:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by EllowViper View Post
I just came back from a nice drive and the SCT tuned ROE is just wonderful. I use a Cooling Mist progressive controller with the integrated digital vacuum/boost gauge...plus it has a programmable output circuit that lets me activate my additional fuel pump at a set boost. So I get the benefits of what the old VEC used to provide as far as controlling a W/M pump and an additional assessory. ITs pricy though...$250.
Yes, I have installed that unit before in another car but I didn't know it could control another output. Another great find Eric! I wish I had the time to research this stuff like I used to. I knew there was an easier way to do it. thanks
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Old May 26th, 2014, 04:40 PM   #14
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I run both Tim. Chris Jensen (DC Perf) flew to Edm from LA and tuned a half dozen Vipers for us. My Roe was the easiest to tune in about 4 hours. I wanted the Vec to be able to add fuel and timing. The MAP inside the Vec is accurate and still controls the ECU. I've upgraded back to the FAST 2001 ECU from the slow 1996 that was in the car. Chris said that the 96 is the slowest Gen 2 computer and requires special tuning equipment but it is the least desirable to use.

I ground the inner ports of the Roe intake and welded a 1/2" divider down the middle of the flat manifold floor. Much nicer running engine and more responsive.

After new valve seals and severe head and manifold porting The engine ran flawlessly and leanest on the guage was 12.5 a/f. I will now add the timing to the Vec tune and remove some fuel using the vec. My Vec logs fine though. The w/m is controlled by the vec as well.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOTTLEFED View Post
Never had any problems with that. I always use my old laptop with XP and serial port for tuning. But it's the VEC itself that is having issues. I talked to Sean about it and he's never seen these errors before and honestly doesn't have time to mess with the VEC anymore.
I tried another laptop with a fresh install of the VEC software and had the same issues.
That sounds like Sean, I have heard that line many times and then you talk to people with the same issues that also talked to him before.

Regarding the serial port with the VEC, that is the best way to do it. I even use an old PIII with serial port for my AEM to interface instead of an adapter.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 06:15 PM   #16
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From the SCT guru that's tuning my ROE, just to add more for you to absorb

https://www.viperalley.com/forum/1492582-post5.html

SCT Pro: Seamless and simple integration, no nonsense, can tune closed loop, can handle 1 bar of boost, can scale injector sizes CORRECTLY, much more access to engine parameters, OEM quality and reliability system results.

SCT Con: Cannot handle Nitrous or W/M control, no internal logging.


VEC-3 Pro: Can handle Nitrous and W/M, Injector Trims [usually not needed in a properly set up engine system], easy to use, can read up to around 2 Bar of boost, has internal logging of some engine parameters.

VEC-3 Con: installation hassle, wiring failures, cannot tune closed loop, cannot correctly scale injectors, no access to other engine parameters, water resistance issues, 2D tuning only.


In your application, SCT. Absolutely.

The VEC systems are very good for bolt-on Superchargers, but not ever when a head/cam is involved, since they have no ability to edit closed loop tuning. Also, it is not to say that you cannot use BOTH systems to compliment each other if you need the W/M or Nitrous items, otherwise, SCT will handle it all, and do it better.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 07:56 PM   #17
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Why not run the AEM?
Agreed. The older boxes are fairly cheap now and seem to finally be reliable with the latest updates. The AEM has the capability to do pretty much anything and everything you want to do....except communicate with the OBDII machine come inspection time.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 09:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOTTLEFED View Post
This sounds very similar to my setup. What dyno #s are you at with it? I'm excited to see what my 2.8H will do. I don't have a cam or any cats.
I talked to Sean about tuning with the SCT and he recommended the same VEC/SCT combo you have for those reasons. I would like to forgo that mess of a bandaid for the SCT injector trims. I may have to tear the whole thing apart and do the plenum like Eric did to cure it :P
672HP/655TQ, looking at your 6.5 numbers I'm sure you'll be able to squeeze more out of your set up. mine is also the 2.8L not the H. I just relocated up north so I might look at having it retuned for more power. It's fun either way. I might be sending my intake to Eric in the winter...
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Old May 27th, 2014, 12:55 AM   #19
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Thanks Dave, that only made my decision harder....
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Old May 27th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #20
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672HP/655TQ, looking at your 6.5 numbers I'm sure you'll be able to squeeze more out of your set up. mine is also the 2.8L not the H. I just relocated up north so I might look at having it retuned for more power. It's fun either way. I might be sending my intake to Eric in the winter...
Sean always tunes way too conservative. I was on cast pistons when I hit 660/680 and I have the same mods as you. When I took the engine apart for rebuild, not a hint of detonation.
What did Sean do for a fuel syst. in your car?
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