Hey everybody, you all seem to have some kind of an oppinion about roe racing's
customer service. Well if you had spent $31K plus shipping from california to Florida.
and received your viper back with drivability problems upon arrival and had no support
from Dave venski, an employee of Roe Racing. I offered to fly Dave out to California to
test drive the Viper so that he could see the problems. I proposed that if dave observed
the problems during his trip to Ca. that roe racing would absorb the costs of the airline
flight and travel. conversely, if Dave did not abserve the problems, then I would reinburse
roe racing for the costs. Dave declined to accept this invitatioin. Surely, if Roe Racing would not agree to pay for the potential costs for airline flight back and forth to Ca. it clearly would not have agreed to pay for the shipment of the car from Ca. to Florida,and then back from Florida to Ca. It makes no sense that Roe Racing would not risk the costs of an
airline ticket but, at the same time, would agree to pay for the shipment of the car across
the United States twice. Having declined to accept a simple invitation for providing how to split airfare, I had no confidence that Roe Racing would pay to ship my car from Ca. to Florida and back. Certainly, no offer was made that specifically stated that Roe Racing would pay for the costs of shipping the Viper from Ca. to. Fl. and back to Ca. and agree
that it would fix the car at no additional expense to me. Furthermore DC performance
in Ca. was extremely fair with me. To date have spent over $4000.00 in attorneys fees
and will keep you posted regarding this case.
Lots of luck proving the heads went on warped. The fact is they usually warp if you take them off incorrectly. If warped heads were an issue, you should have blown the gasket immediately with the Blower. You paid the have the engine removed and disassembled? Why? You didn't say anything was wrong with it. But you expect Roe to pay for it when nothing's wrong?
You offered to reimburse Roe or supply/pay for Dave's ticket. What about paying for all his other expenses, time from work, food, etc.?
Sorry, but I have employees and time is money for whatever they do.
I have a 720rwhp Roe wth 20,000mi. on it and I' ecstatic with it! I've found his customer service to be excellent.
Did you check the mileage to see if someone drove your car before it got back in your hands (shipper)? Maybe a bad tank of gas?
I guess I'm still missing how 31k was spent on Supercharger install, clutch etc? Not calling anyone a liar, but why would you ship it across the ENTIRE country to spend 31 grand only to have DIY SC put on a car that can be installed/tuned etc for under 10 grand? I've had good experience with Roe, but I spent about 1/30th what you did
Hey everyone, at this time I will have to get back to you all unable to comment.
I will Keep you posted after consulting with my attorney. As far as 31K Spent on
upgrades. As I HAD MENTIONED BEFORE, I BELIEVE I WAS OVER CHARGED.
Since everyone is so interested in knowing the 31K figure and question that. I have an
Invoice from roe racing itemizing two pages of parts and work performed. I would like
to list a few for you: Fluidyne 3 row radiator,Modified fan module,Viper fan kit,5 piece radiator hoses with bleeder,coolant reservoir,water pump & gaskets.65/70mm throttle
bodies,supercharger polished,cylinder head performance package,708 cam,jesel roller
rockers,pushrods,side exhaust system w/High flow cats,centerforce clutch kit,Belanger
headers-coated,port intake manifold to heads,Vec-2/PCM,tps/cam sensors,methanol
injection,clutch slave cylinder,line-lock,,raptor shift light,air fuel meter,MSD wires etc.etc.
the list goes on and on. As you can see the extent of this project not a simple week-end
project as some of you may think.
Ted, your comment about the heads doesn't make sense. DC Performance performed
extensive diagnostic tests to pinpoint cause of poor drivability; however a teardown
of the engine was necessary because of the mechanical problem. The results were
again as I had mentioned before combination of errors by roe racing. Found valve timing
incorrect, send cylinder heads out for inspection,found exhaust valve seat leakings,
(valve seals too tight,valves will not rotate). found head surface warped. along with
some other errors, etc. To your other comment re expenses. I have always been a fair
person I'm sure after their findings we would have worked out the full expense details.
OK, so a leakdown test didn't show warped heads, right? I said "prove" and if the headgasket wasn't blown that could be considered as 'proof' the heads were't warped.
You said valve timing, last time you said "cam timing". 1 degree cam timing change isn't noticeable, and you didn't state which way it was "out". Myself, if I wanted to optimize the blower I'd be tempted to advance the cam timing a couple of degrees, if anything. I retarded my Heni gind (n/a) to get 6800rpms instead of the newer 104 CL which peaks at 5500rpm. Picked up a few tenths. Different engine builders, different ideas. Which way was your cam out? Can timing is adjusted by offset key or offset pins. Otherwise you just bolt the camshaft to the timing gear. Pretty simple unless you deliberately change it.
Valve seals too tight? Valve seals? There's no clearance adjustment for valve seals, "push on firmly" is the shop manual installation instructions so I don't understand how they could be overtightened. The reason you change valve seals is because they leak oil.
I'd suggest you maybe need a second opinion on your second opinion.
Aluminium heads after installation will all be 'warped' to some degree (.001, .002"), after a certain amount of warpage (which a composition head gasket is built to comensate for) before needing to be shaved. A visual check with a square is usually enough to check for flatness and warpage. How much were they warped?
Please check out the info I wrote here with a reliable mechanic and see if he thinks 'tight valve seals', 1 degree cam timing and a "slighty warped aluminium head" woudl be a problem. Valve seats leaking could be a problem unless they were still seating. As far as I knew there was only a couple of us "old school" guys that still hand seated the valves nowadays. Machine shops seldom even check valve seating when they do valve grinds anymore.
I'd like to add that I don't have your engine here so I can't see if this is a case of someone being ridiculously 'picky' or there's some real problems, but there's no problem with tight vavle seals and 1 degree cam timing isn't worth paying for an offset key unless it's a custom job. I didn't think offset keys and pins were available in 1 degree increments - the kit I bought only offered 2 degree changes.
Hate to have you spend another 5-10,000 to a lawyer and find this out.
I've built hundreds of engines, but not a 3rd gen - so I'm not an expert as these shops are and I'm guessing with info you've provided and haven't seen the parts.
I Would Like To Thank All Of You Who Visited And Posted On My Sight. Also I Would Specially Like To Thank Ted For His Input On The Problems That I Had.
Ted, I Know You Were Trying To Help; However Repairs Were Done In My Oppinion
By The Best Qualified And Reputable Viper Specialists In California. Also Thank
You Viperalley A Great Sight To Post Your Experiences. For Those Who Were Following And Wondering The Outcome. I am happy to report that the dispute
was amicably resolved, therefore I will be and would like to delete my sight
from the Viperalley. I like to ask for assistance since I don't know how to delete
my sight if someone perhaps could guide me by forwarding the deleting process to me as I need to take care of this ASAP. Thank You
I Would Like To Thank All Of You Who Visited And Posted On My Sight. Also I Would Specially Like To Thank Ted For His Input On The Problems That I Had.
Ted, I Know You Were Trying To Help; However Repairs Were Done In My Oppinion
By The Best Qualified And Reputable Viper Specialists In California. Also Thank
You Viperalley A Great Sight To Post Your Experiences. For Those Who Were Following And Wondering The Outcome. I am happy to report that the dispute
was amicably resolved, therefore I will be and would like to delete my sight
from the Viperalley. I like to ask for assistance since I don't know how to delete
my sight if someone perhaps could guide me by forwarding the deleting process to me as I need to take care of this ASAP. Thank You
i have a pretty good idea about what u should have done.u should have just bought all the parts u needed waited till the weekends come and d.i.y and you most likely would have never had this problem
Roe Racing Like All The Shops I Have Dealt With Seem To Care Little About The People They Work For. And They Do Not Know How To Do The Much Of The Work They Say They Can Do. I Had Them Attempt To Do An Initial Start Up On A Newly Built Motor, But Had To Send It Out When They Did A Compression Test On It. No New Engine That Has Not Been Broken In Will Pass This Test Which Doesn't Need To Be Done. Almost All Of The Viper "tuners" Bolt Stuff On And Few Will Tell You That You Are Likely To Spend A Fortune When Your Motor Blows Up.
If Anyone Knows A Reputable Engine Builder In South Florida, Please Respond.
It Seems Mediocrity And Incompetence Are As Pervasive As Greed When It Comes To Viper Tuning.
Roe Racing Like All The Shops I Have Dealt With Seem To Care Little About The People They Work For. And They Do Not Know How To Do The Much Of The Work They Say They Can Do. I Had Them Attempt To Do An Initial Start Up On A Newly Built Motor, But Had To Send It Out When They Did A Compression Test On It. No New Engine That Has Not Been Broken In Will Pass This Test Which Doesn't Need To Be Done. Almost All Of The Viper "tuners" Bolt Stuff On And Few Will Tell You That You Are Likely To Spend A Fortune When Your Motor Blows Up.
If Anyone Knows A Reputable Engine Builder In South Florida, Please Respond.
It Seems Mediocrity And Incompetence Are As Pervasive As Greed When It Comes To Viper Tuning.
Nice first post. That had to be a lot of work capitalizing EVERY freaking word. Jeezus man.
Roe Racing Like All The Shops I Have Dealt With Seem To Care Little About The People They Work For. And They Do Not Know How To Do The Much Of The Work They Say They Can Do. I Had Them Attempt To Do An Initial Start Up On A Newly Built Motor, But Had To Send It Out When They Did A Compression Test On It. No New Engine That Has Not Been Broken In Will Pass This Test Which Doesn't Need To Be Done. Almost All Of The Viper "tuners" Bolt Stuff On And Few Will Tell You That You Are Likely To Spend A Fortune When Your Motor Blows Up.
If Anyone Knows A Reputable Engine Builder In South Florida, Please Respond.
It Seems Mediocrity And Incompetence Are As Pervasive As Greed When It Comes To Viper Tuning.
Your post doesn't make sense. I would say that you also don't know what's going on I suggest Doug Levin in Miami...he should be fairly close to you. Good luck.
Gentlemen, Thanks to all who have visited my sight! However, I had asked
and requested three different times for this sight to be deleted from the Viperalley. As you can see my previous postings. If any one who can guide me to delete my sight I would greatly appreciated. I E-Mailed Viper alley few times already however I received no respose from the Viperalley Hosts/Mgmt.
Thank You.
Gentlemen, Thanks to all who have visited my sight! However, I had asked
and requested three different times for this sight to be deleted from the Viperalley. As you can see my previous postings. If any one who can guide me to delete my sight I would greatly appreciated. I E-Mailed Viper alley few times already however I received no respose from the Viperalley Hosts/Mgmt.
Thank You.
This isn't your sight....nor your site It is your thread, some may call it a tread, Posts etc.
I don't think posts get deleted on most websites for just any reason or general request. Something bad or really really bad has to be going on for deletion. VA is in the really, really, really bad category.
I'm glad you guys got everything resolved.
i have a pretty good idea about what u should have done.u should have just bought all the parts u needed waited till the weekends come and d.i.y and you most likely would have never had this problem
Well Holy Shit, that was fucking helpful! Way to "Monday morning quarterback" this thing! Now all you have to do is figure out that whole pesky time travel thing and you can fix everyones problems!
I Would Like To Thank All Of You Who Visited And Posted On My Sight. Also I Would Specially Like To Thank Ted For His Input On The Problems That I Had.
I suggest Doug Levin in Miami...he should be fairly close to you. Good luck.
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