That would be a correct conclusion; I haven't dyno tested these headers myself. As a consumer I generally trust unbiased customer opinions versus shops pushing product.
In my opinion a random guy with great results is a much better way to get an actual real world 100% genuine review of the product at hand. Getting the power from these engines isn't that hard in peak horsepower dyno terms. Its keeping the check engine light off that gets tricky and Belanger is the only company that has achieved this at this time (to my knowledge). Ask people that have given the various headers a shot and see what their candid responses are.
I guess that the next logical question would be; How did you arrive at your 50+ plus horsepower result?
From Belanger supported by various endusers who have installed the exhaust, got great usable power, and (most importantly) no check engine light.
This isn't direct from our dyno. Call Lou and talk to him directly. He'll tell you the same thing I have; listen to people that have paid from their pocket for the parts.
I have no reason to doubt that. Conversely you could seek out how many of the other guys have check engine light problems on the 08's
From Belanger supported by various endusers who have installed the exhaust, got great usable power, and (most importantly) no check engine light.
This isn't direct from our dyno. Call Lou and talk to him directly. He'll tell you the same thing I have; listen to people that have paid from their pocket for the parts.
I have no reason to doubt that. Conversely you could seek out how many of the other guys have check engine light problems on the 08's
I never questioned the satisfaction of anyone that has purchased the exhaust; I am addressing the horsepower claim. I didn't start a thread claiming a 50+ horsepower increase for a product, therefore it is not my obligation to assure my customers that this number is valid, nor is it IMHO my responsibility to contact anyone including Lou, since he did not create the thread nor claim the 50+ horsepower increase. I'm sure it's a great product and the absence of a CEL is a great bi-product, but IMHO, if I were to make a claim of a 50+ horsepower increase with the installation of a product advertised by me, I would conduct independent tests and have a dyno sheet to corroborate my claimed power increase. After all, it is your reputation at stake, not Lou's.
Last edited by 9Eleven : April 16th, 2008 at 05:21 PM.
FYI, last Saturday we had a 08 Viper with Full Belanger's dyno at Maxwell Dodge in Austin at 537whp and 498trq (Texas Viper Roundup). I dyno'd two cars after in my bone stock 08 at 534whp and 506trq. After more cool down, he re-dyno'd his car and made 559whp, but the car had time to cool down and the temps were starting to drop (weather). My car dyno'd 560whp in Dallas a few weeks earlier, and I'm sure had I re-dyno'd after him, I would have hit higher as well.
Unfortunately, this isn't very scientific, because no one knows what the baseline for his car was, and this was an OBD Emissions testing dyno with a Dodge tech running the dyno. He cut the dyno at 6000rpm, instead of the fuel-cutoff like I asked The car with the Belanger's, I doubt the owner drives it very hard, but MAN does it sound awesome!
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2008 GTS Blue Viper SRT-10C - Stock (Daily Driver)
2006 Lexus GS430 - Stock (Weekend Car)
2004 Suzuki GSXR-1000 - Turbo, built motor, AMS-1000, H2O injection, etc.
I never questioned the satisfaction of anyone that has purchased the exhaust; I am addressing the horsepower claim. I didn't start a thread claiming a 50+ horsepower increase for a product, therefore it is not my obligation to assure my customers that this number is valid, nor is it IMHO my responsibility to contact anyone including Lou, since he did not create the thread nor claim the 50+ horsepower increase. I'm sure it's a great product and the absence of a CEL is a great bi-product, but IMHO, if I were to make a claim of a 50+ horsepower increase with the installation of a product advertised by me, I would conduct independent tests and have a dyno sheet to corroborate my claimed power increase. After all, it is your reputation at stake, not Lou's.
Relax man, Its not like these tuning shop have sophisticated marketing and law departments. If he says it will add 50+, thats great, there is no reason to gripe. If he says it will add 50+ hp and you buy from him and then it doesnt add 50+ you can feel free to complain.
I never questioned the satisfaction of anyone that has purchased the exhaust; I am addressing the horsepower claim. I didn't start a thread claiming a 50+ horsepower increase for a product, therefore it is not my obligation to assure my customers that this number is valid, nor is it IMHO my responsibility to contact anyone including Lou, since he did not create the thread nor claim the 50+ horsepower increase. I'm sure it's a great product and the absence of a CEL is a great bi-product, but IMHO, if I were to make a claim of a 50+ horsepower increase with the installation of a product advertised by me, I would conduct independent tests and have a dyno sheet to corroborate my claimed power increase. After all, it is your reputation at stake, not Lou's.
9Eleven --
Here's a thread I posted over on the VCA website regarding the Belanger system on the 08. I just got a baseline dyno and will be installing the system on my 2008 in a few days but Mark Jorgensen did post before and after dyno runs that appear to substantiate the horsepower claim. I will also post my "after" results on the same thread so check back again in a few weeks:
Here's a thread I posted over on the VCA website regarding the Belanger system on the 08. I just got a baseline dyno and will be installing the system on my 2008 in a few days but Mark Jorgensen did post before and after dyno runs that appear to substantiate the horsepower claim. I will also post my "after" results on the same thread so check back again in a few weeks:
Thanks, it does. I thought that '08 Vipers were putting down about 520 hp to the wheels (stock). I know that mustang dyno's are pretty conservative, but that seems pretty low. Am I wrong?
Last edited by 9Eleven : April 19th, 2008 at 03:43 PM.
This was on a mustang dyno generally (that loses a lot compared to most other dynos) on an engine with no break time or learning time for the computer (for the new mods).
so, after the rings have fully seated, the PCM has "learned" the new exhaust, and the car is on a dynojet you should see even more gains
This was on a mustang dyno generally (that loses a lot compared to most other dynos) on an engine with no break time or learning time for the computer (for the new mods).
so, after the rings have fully seated, the PCM has "learned" the new exhaust, and the car is on a dynojet you should see even more gains
I agree that there was a 48 hp gain; my question regarded the normal stock dyno result on an '08 Viper. Although Mustang dyno's are notorious for delivering low numbers; what is the normal average dyno horsepower result for a stock '08? I was under the impression that most '08's were putting down around 520 to 530 rwhp on most dyno's absent a Mustang.
I agree that there was a 48 hp gain; my question regarded the normal stock dyno result on an '08 Viper. Although Mustang dyno's are notorious for delivering low numbers; what is the normal average dyno horsepower result for a stock '08? I was under the impression that most '08's were putting down around 520 to 530 rwhp on most dyno's absent a Mustang.
9eleven --
I am a dyno newbie so take the following with that caveat. If you go back and read my post on the VCA website my 529 rwhp and 505 rwtorque dyno figures were actually run on a Mustang, not a Dynojet. Using a 12% correction gets me to 601 flywheel hp while using a 15% correction gets me to about 620 flywheel hp. I believe this is a pretty accurate baseline dyno because most other 08 owners have been getting numbers that put them in the 600-620 hp range at the crank. Also, Chrysler ran a 2008 motor on an engine dyno which the VCA officers were permitted to observe and the SRT engineers were getting about 614 or 615 hp at the crank so the above figures appear in the ballpark for a stock 2008 engine.
Regarding the numbers obtained by Woodhouse Dodge, I believe that car was dynoed at about 30 miles before the break in period was completed. In contrast, my car was dynoed at about 1,600 miles after a progressive yet fairly aggressive break in procedure. Also, it seems that various dynos (even Mustangs) can be calibrated differently and it appears that the Woodhouse Mustang dyno has been calibrated very conservatively (I believe they did their calibrations in consulation with the Chrysler enginners to duplicate the dyno conditions at Chrysler more closely). Anyway, that's the best info I have. Hope that helps.
/Rich
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2002 Lemans Blue/Lemans Blue BMW M5
2004 Chili Red John Cooper Works MINI Cooper S
2006 Nighthawk Black Pearl Honda Odyssey Touring
2008 Viper GTS Blue Dodge Viper SRT-10 convertible
Does anyone know how this effects the factory warranty. I purchased the 7 year 100K warranty and my salesman didn't know but said he would lok into it.
Charlie
Belanger exhaust shouldn't have affect the factory warranty in any way (especially since its the only 08 header package that doesn't throw a CEL to my knowledge).
I am a dyno newbie so take the following with that caveat. If you go back and read my post on the VCA website my 529 rwhp and 505 rwtorque dyno figures were actually run on a Mustang, not a Dynojet. Using a 12% correction gets me to 601 flywheel hp while using a 15% correction gets me to about 620 flywheel hp. I believe this is a pretty accurate baseline dyno because most other 08 owners have been getting numbers that put them in the 600-620 hp range at the crank. Also, Chrysler ran a 2008 motor on an engine dyno which the VCA officers were permitted to observe and the SRT engineers were getting about 614 or 615 hp at the crank so the above figures appear in the ballpark for a stock 2008 engine.
Regarding the numbers obtained by Woodhouse Dodge, I believe that car was dynoed at about 30 miles before the break in period was completed. In contrast, my car was dynoed at about 1,600 miles after a progressive yet fairly aggressive break in procedure. Also, it seems that various dynos (even Mustangs) can be calibrated differently and it appears that the Woodhouse Mustang dyno has been calibrated very conservatively (I believe they did their calibrations in consulation with the Chrysler enginners to duplicate the dyno conditions at Chrysler more closely). Anyway, that's the best info I have. Hope that helps.
/Rich
I agree that Mustang dyno's are very conservative. That's why it seems that your rwhp numbers are for a stock '08, but your car delivered these numbers with the exhaust. That is why I'm a little confused, which is not difficult for me to experience. I was hoping for 550 to 560 rwhp, maybe I was being a little too optimistic.
I agree that Mustang dyno's are very conservative. That's why it seems that your rwhp numbers are for a stock '08, but your car delivered these numbers with the exhaust. That is why I'm a little confused, which is not difficult for me to experience. I was hoping for 550 to 560 rwhp, maybe I was being a little too optimistic.
Ahh, now I see why you are confused. The numbers I posted (the first dyno sheet on the VCA thread) are for my 2008 with the completely stock exhaust system. (The dyno graphs later in the thread are from another 2008 on another dyno.) I will be bringing in my car in a few days for install of the Belanger system (headers, cats, mufflers and exhaust). I will then drive the car another 500-1,000 miles to allow the ECU to "learn" the new mods and will then do another Mustang dyno run at the same facility. I will then post the new dyno graph for your and everyone else's review. Sorry for the confusion.
Others who are knowledeable about the Belanger system say I should expect from a 40 to 60 hp gain so I am shooting for 569 to 589 rwhp. However, if I even get a 30-40 hp gain I will be pleased.
Ahh, now I see why you are confused. The numbers I posted (the first dyno sheet on the VCA thread) are for my 2008 with the completely stock exhaust system. (The dyno graphs later in the thread are from another 2008 on another dyno.) I will be bringing in my car in a few days for install of the Belanger system (headers, cats, mufflers and exhaust). I will then drive the car another 500-1,000 miles to allow the ECU to "learn" the new mods and will then do another Mustang dyno run at the same facility. I will then post the new dyno graph for your and everyone else's review. Sorry for the confusion.
Others who are knowledeable about the Belanger system say I should expect from a 40 to 60 hp gain so I am shooting for 569 to 589 rwhp. However, if I even get a 30-40 hp gain I will be pleased.
/Rich
Holy mackerel, now I finally get it! I looked at the VCA thread again and your graph shows 529 rwhp stock, you haven't run your car on the dyno yet with your new exhaust. I was looking at the other dyno sheets from a member named mjorgensen from Woodhouse; although his dyno sheets are also confusing. Man, I am glad to see 529 at the wheels stock; that's what I thought they were producing. I am looking forward to your dyno results after the Belanger installation. I would guess 550 to 565 rwhp, which is about 650 fwhp when you calculate a 15 percent drivetrain loss.
The car with the Belanger's, I doubt the owner drives it very hard, but MAN does it sound awesome!
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