I posted it up on the m.org and couldn’t believe the reaction I was getting. We all know these stock short blocks are good for 800rwhp-900rwhp(we have cream puff genII’s making more than that).
With a descent cast exhaust manifold it would a cost effective system, minor fuel system upgrades and some computer tuning, this would work.
While for emissions reasons, it maybe impossible for it to come from the factory…but as a Mopar upgrade, this would work very well.
I like what Ford is doing with Shelby right now with the Mustang. It’s a great system and they are selling a lot of $55,000-$65,000 MUSTANGS!
As cool as it sounds, it would never happen. Many reasons including costs Dodge doesnt want to worry about and quite frankly shouldnt. Imagine the initial cost of development, the extra cost in parts and manufacturing and build costs, and then the overall price the car would have to sell for. Sure they would sell a few, but you get my point. Then comes the increased likeliness of things breaking. It would be a full time program to replace engines and drivetrain components all the time. People already cant handle the ponies in current Vipers, imagine the TT's. Even if emissions werent an issue, things like this just dont happen this day in age like they did in the late 60's and early 70's. Even a dealer tuned type option like used to exist (think Yenko) the costs and liability are just too high to make any profit worthwhile. The way things are now with aftermarket tuning is the best scenario, and keeps alot of exclusivity in the game too.
As cool as it sounds, it would never happen. Many reasons including costs Dodge doesnt want to worry about and quite frankly shouldnt. Imagine the initial cost of development, the extra cost in parts and manufacturing and build costs, and then the overall price the car would have to sell for. Sure they would sell a few, but you get my point. Then comes the increased likeliness of things breaking. It would be a full time program to replace engines and drivetrain components all the time. People already cant handle the ponies in current Vipers, imagine the TT's. Even if emissions werent an issue, things like this just dont happen this day in age like they did in the late 60's and early 70's. Even a dealer tuned type option like used to exist (think Yenko) the costs and liability are just too high to make any profit worthwhile. The way things are now with aftermarket tuning is the best scenario, and keeps alot of exclusivity in the game too.
I agree, With people already wrecking these cars with 500 and 600 hp I really don't think folks have any buisness getting such a powerful car from the factory. I would be willing to bet that most of the VEYRON owners around the world who have flogged them cars and think they are the shit would be in for a rude awaking if they tried to drive even the entry level TT vipers(750 to 850rwhp) because of less weight and RWD.
i think a special edition widebody w factory 800 tt hp, special colors and special interiors with optional matching two tone interiors (interior match for every exterior color) for 150 grand would be the answer.... bye bye zr1 and any future vette
I don't think the Dodge engineers would be too stressed to develop a twin turbo version. I bet they could knock the engineering out in two weeks (including the requisite engine modifications that all OEMs do). It's the EPA certification and testing that takes the time and money.
Last edited by The Former PFR : March 4th, 2008 at 10:40 AM.
That was precisely what I was thinking of. If mopar teamed with someone who ALREADY builds Twin Turbo Vipers; the R&D and cost wouldn’t be nearly as high as if they started from scratch. I’m sure they could sell limited number (say 25-50/yr) for 100k-110k and still turn a profit.
It would be nice to keep the ACR as a “road race” car then make something like an AAR for the street version of an ACR + turbos.
They could make a Deal with Saleen (or dare I say Hennessy just due to name brand recognition) A 800hp(680rwhp – 700rwhp) Viper would be no big deal. If they wanted to do a world beater…of 1100hp(935rwhp-950rwhp) Sell it for 150k.
Hell Audi is selling the R8 for $109,000!!! SUPERCARS ARE NOT CHEAP!
The Viper needs to step out of this pissing match with the vette and go after the Enzo(or whatever car Ferrari has in the works…I hear it will be a turbo car) and play on the world stage.
The viper has the suspension and chassis to do it. I just needs a bit more power and some trick brakes. Throw in some TC for the cry babies(but make it an option and charge extra)
I just hate to see the Viper get the Ax…it’s just too good of a platform for it to end.
That was precisely what I was thinking of. If mopar teamed with someone who ALREADY builds Twin Turbo Vipers; the R&D and cost wouldn’t be nearly as high as if they started from scratch. I’m sure they could sell limited number (say 25-50/yr) for 100k-110k and still turn a profit.
It would be nice to keep the ACR as a “road race” car then make something like an AAR for the street version of an ACR + turbos.
They could make a Deal with Saleen (or dare I say Hennessy just due to name brand recognition) A 800hp(680rwhp – 700rwhp) Viper would be no big deal. If they wanted to do a world beater…of 1100hp(935rwhp-950rwhp) Sell it for 150k.
Hell Audi is selling the R8 for $109,000!!! SUPERCARS ARE NOT CHEAP!
The Viper needs to step out of this pissing match with the vette and go after the Enzo(or whatever car Ferrari has in the works…I hear it will be a turbo car) and play on the world stage.
The viper has the suspension and chassis to do it. I just needs a bit more power and some trick brakes. Throw in some TC for the cry babies(but make it an option and charge extra)
I just hate to see the Viper get the Ax…it’s just too good of a platform for it to end.
A twin turbo viper would sell even less than the N/A version. HP wars mean nothing at the $100k+ price level. Most people purchasing stock vehicles priced at that level can't handle the power they are putting down off the showroom floor. It's an exclusivity thing, not a bang for the buck thing.
Dodge would sell more Vipers by using the exact current powertrain and chassis with a comp coupe body on it then they would by adding more power. They really fucked up with the design of the SRT-10 from the get go. It looks like an S2000 on steroids. The Gen III/IV cars will never be as collectible as Gen I/II.
I own a Gen III, btw. It was a bang for the buck decision for me. By the way, based on your comments my guess is that you've never had your Viper on a road course at speed (if you own a Viper). Because the Gen III/IV brakes are damn near as perfect as they come.
A twin turbo viper would sell even less than the N/A version. HP wars mean nothing at the $100k+ price level. Most people purchasing stock vehicles priced at that level can't handle the power they are putting down off the showroom floor. It's an exclusivity thing, not a bang for the buck thing.
Dodge would sell more Vipers by using the exact current powertrain and chassis with a comp coupe body on it then they would by adding more power. They really fucked up with the design of the SRT-10 from the get go. It looks like an S2000 on steroids. The Gen III/IV cars will never be as collectible as Gen I/II.
I own a Gen III, btw. It was a bang for the buck decision for me. By the way, based on your comments my guess is that you've never had your Viper on a road course at speed (if you own a Viper). Because the Gen III/IV brakes are damn near as perfect as they come.
A twin turbo viper would sell even less than the N/A version. HP wars mean nothing at the $100k+ price level. Most people purchasing stock vehicles priced at that level can't handle the power they are putting down off the showroom floor. It's an exclusivity thing, not a bang for the buck thing.
Dodge would sell more Vipers by using the exact current powertrain and chassis with a comp coupe body on it then they would by adding more power. They really fucked up with the design of the SRT-10 from the get go. It looks like an S2000 on steroids. The Gen III/IV cars will never be as collectible as Gen I/II.
I own a Gen III, btw. It was a bang for the buck decision for me. By the way, based on your comments my guess is that you've never had your Viper on a road course at speed (if you own a Viper). Because the Gen III/IV brakes are damn near as perfect as they come.
KENNY YOUR BACK…..YOU’VE BEEN GONE TOO LONG!!!
With 800-1000hp….you will want better brakes than what the current 08 has to offer.
Fact is fact…if the Viper is to survive, it needs to be shockingly powerful, look incredible and out handle the best. It needs to grow and evolve…yet remain a primal brute.
Back when most “sports cars” were making 300hp(F355, 911, C4 ect) here comes the Viper with 400hp. When the sports cars were at 400hp (360, 911 GT2 and C5Z)…the Viper put out 450-510hp. In this day and age when sports cars are making 650hp-750hp(Enzo, Murci, S7-TT) The Viper needs to shock the world again and bring 850hp or more to the table.
The Viper is all about “Shock and Awe” As much as I don’t like Jeremy Clarkston(of the top gear fame) I think he described the Viper well…It went something like this…
…”The Viper is like going out with a good drinking buddy who just so happens to enjoy killing people with an Ax…”* As much as he hates the car…he can’t help but love it.
The Viper has always been about Supercar performance, with Muscle car Brutality…at least in my eyes.
*may not be word for word, but it gets the point across.
With 800-1000hp….you will want better brakes than what the current 08 has to offer.
Fact is fact…if the Viper is to survive, it needs to be shockingly powerful, look incredible and out handle the best. It needs to grow and evolve…yet remain a primal brute.
Back when most “sports cars” were making 300hp(F355, 911, C4 ect) here comes the Viper with 400hp. When the sports cars were at 400hp (360, 911 GT2 and C5Z)…the Viper put out 450-510hp. In this day and age when sports cars are making 650hp-750hp(Enzo, Murci, S7-TT) The Viper needs to shock the world again and bring 850hp or more to the table.
The Viper is all about “Shock and Awe” As much as I don’t like Jeremy Clarkston(of the top gear fame) I think he described the Viper well…It went something like this…
…”The Viper is like going out with a good drinking buddy who just so happens to enjoy killing people with an Ax…”* As much as he hates the car…he can’t help but love it.
The Viper has always been about Supercar performance, with Muscle car Brutality…at least in my eyes.
*may not be word for word, but it gets the point across.
How are you really gonna get better brakes than it has? The things are insanely powerful and don't fade. I don't care if it has 800 HP, the brakes are fine.
With 800-1000hp….you will want better brakes than what the current 08 has to offer.
Fact is fact…if the Viper is to survive, it needs to be shockingly powerful, look incredible and out handle the best. It needs to grow and evolve…yet remain a primal brute.
Back when most “sports cars” were making 300hp(F355, 911, C4 ect) here comes the Viper with 400hp. When the sports cars were at 400hp (360, 911 GT2 and C5Z)…the Viper put out 450-510hp. In this day and age when sports cars are making 650hp-750hp(Enzo, Murci, S7-TT) The Viper needs to shock the world again and bring 850hp or more to the table.
The Viper is all about “Shock and Awe” As much as I don’t like Jeremy Clarkston(of the top gear fame) I think he described the Viper well…It went something like this…
…”The Viper is like going out with a good drinking buddy who just so happens to enjoy killing people with an Ax…”* As much as he hates the car…he can’t help but love it.
The Viper has always been about Supercar performance, with Muscle car Brutality…at least in my eyes.
*may not be word for word, but it gets the point across.
Do I know you?
Anyway, the SRT-10 will never be a competitor for the Enzo, Murci, or S7TT. Even though for half the money it can exceed the performance of any of the three (at least brute acceleration numbers---we all know it will never have the balance of a mid-engine), because it looks like shit. Period.
Anyway, the SRT-10 will never be a competitor for the Enzo, Murci, or S7TT. Even though for half the money it can exceed the performance of any of the three (at least brute acceleration numbers---we all know it will never have the balance of a mid-engine), because it looks like shit. Period.
You'll never see it happen. Chrysler thought it would be a great idea to carry over all the racing parts from the competition program. Nothing moved. No one wanted a 10 velocity stack intake or a rear end gear pump and cooler. The biggest movers were the k&n filters, smoothie tubes and performance computers. 1/2 of the 1.7 rocker kits were guranteed to not fit without removing the heads and having the stands milled.
Besides, would you want to deal with the mark up of a dealer anyway?
