I know the potential demise of our Vipers has been talked about many times recently, but the roar seems to be getting hard to ignore. I don't think this is a repost, it looks like it's dated today.
But this is what they have to say about the future of the mighty Viper;
Conner Ave., Detroit
Currently producing: Viper SRT and its hand-built, 8.4-liter V-10
UAW workers: 115
Outlook:
The Viper's almost surely dead -- the company wants to close this low-volume operation, and in the new labor agreement would not commit to any new product for Conner Ave.
We think Chrysler may be waffling about the Viper because it knows this is one of its few products that gets enthusiast blood flowing, so there could be reluctance to confirm its demise.
But aside from its ability to capture magazine covers -- an attribute creator Bob Lutz insisted was worth the cost of developing and building it -- the Viper's a money loser. It's unlikely the right-brain Wall Streeters at Cerberus will let emotion prevail in the decision whether to keep the Viper nameplate alive; either way, it appears this nifty operation is marked for termination.
Grade: F
I sure hate to see this kind of talk
__________________
'99 Silver GTS..Connolly Leather..K&N..smooth tubes..B&M Short Shifter..Roller Rockers..Aluminum flywheel..Baer Racing Brakes with 2 piece rotors..3.55 Gears..urethane suspension bushings..And many more mods to come....
I would not be surprised to see the Viper get discontinued. I was surprised it was not announced along with discontinuation of the Crossfire, Pacifica, Magnum and PT Cruiser Convertible. After cutting 1/3 of the workforce it may only be 300's, Ram Trucks and Minivans in the future.
Timing was not right to announce Viper since they just started production a few days ago. If they announce 2008 is the last year they may sell a bunch at close to sticker. They haven't done that in a while.
Flagships are almost all money losers. Veyron, F1, FXX and so on. I read some where that the vette line didn't start making a profit till the mid 90's.
At the VOI in St. Louis, they told us that they considered the Viper to be a success, even if it loses money because so many Viper owners never had another Chrysler product, until they bought their Viper. Then, the number was very high of owners who then bought another Chrysler product. So, indirectly, the Viper does make them money.
At the VOI in St. Louis, they told us that they considered the Viper to be a success, even if it loses money because so many Viper owners never had another Chrysler product, until they bought their Viper. Then, the number was very high of owners who then bought another Chrysler product. So, indirectly, the Viper does make them money.
That is very true, getting into vipers made me start buying dodge trucks. Which I swore never to do. And it has made me look seriously at a 300 srt-8
At the VOI in St. Louis, they told us that they considered the Viper to be a success, even if it loses money because so many Viper owners never had another Chrysler product, until they bought their Viper. Then, the number was very high of owners who then bought another Chrysler product. So, indirectly, the Viper does make them money.
VOI was b-4 Cerberus. Big deal about Viper owners buying other Chrysler products. How many Vipers produced from '92 thru '08....less than 25K? Even if every Viper owner bought 2 other Chrysler products that would only be another 50K over a period of 16 years...decimal dust. Besides I'll bet the majority of Viper owners have never bought any other Chrysler product. Most dealerships don't even have Vipers in the showrooms these days to draw buyers. Also, the Viper platform is unique and offers no manufacturing economies of scale. Viper is toast.
VOI was b-4 Cerberus. Big deal about Viper owners buying other Chrysler products. How many Vipers produced from '92 thru '08....less than 25K? Even if every Viper owner bought 2 other Chrysler products that would only be another 50K over a period of 16 years...decimal dust. Besides I'll bet the majority of Viper owners have never bought any other Chrysler product. Most dealerships don't even have Vipers in the showrooms these days to draw buyers. Also, the Viper platform is unique and offers no manufacturing economies of scale. Viper is toast.
Is the SRT-10 Ram gone for good? Or are the still building that?
What about the Chrysler Firepower concept that was supposed to be almost identical to the viper with exception to body panels and engine.
If they do still have the Ram SRT-10 and are willing to build the firepower, wouldnt it make sense that they will keep the viper around since they are thinking about expanding on the viper platform. Of course I could be completely off.
On top of that you forget the passion that the viper ignites in people I dont own a viper but I am an Chrysler guy thanks to my uncle who is a viper owner. I personally own a Dodge Ram 1500 and at this point will only buy Chrysler products.
Is the SRT-10 Ram gone for good? Or are the still building that?
What about the Chrysler Firepower concept that was supposed to be almost identical to the viper with exception to body panels and engine.
If they do still have the Ram SRT-10 and are willing to build the firepower, wouldnt it make sense that they will keep the viper around since they are thinking about expanding on the viper platform. Of course I could be completely off.
On top of that you forget the passion that the viper ignites in people I dont own a viper but I am an Chrysler guy thanks to my uncle who is a viper owner. I personally own a Dodge Ram 1500 and at this point will only buy Chrysler products.
They no longer make the Ram SRT-10. No official word regarding the Firepower.
I think chrysler will build the viper for another couple or few years. They have already tooled up for the current model. Design for a new model may be too costly. I think this latest model will likely be the last.
Shame on you for believing and posting any of that blabber the mainstream sites and mags try to spew about it. And remember that at best... all a review is, is ONE individual or a small groups opinion on a particular product... thats it. Taking any of it at face value is as useful as purposely speeding by a cop you see sitting on roadside.
They no longer make the Ram SRT-10. No official word regarding the Firepower.
Thats kind of depressing, however you still cant deny the fact that the viper brings a type of passion to the brand like no other car does. Thats got to count for something.
Flagships are almost all money losers. Veyron, F1, FXX and so on. I read some where that the vette line didn't start making a profit till the mid 90's.
True. From 53-96 the vette lost money every year. The intro to the C5 was what turned the vette into a money maker. Every year since it's been a profitable line.
The Viper's worth is it's brand and Image. It would truly be a shame to see it go away. Having the rivalry between the Vette and the Viper has helped both cars and the people that buy them. Weather you like the Vette or not it's helped the Viper program and vice versa.
When I read this article, I was near devastated. I want to own a car before production ceases.
I think that some of you make very valid points. Even Honda claims to lose $$ on building the S2000, but does so to establish itself as a performance brand or a brand capable of selling performance. This indirectly outweighs the costs and it is INVALUABLE, in my opinion, to be viewed as a performance brand.
For example, nobody considers Lexus a performance brand. Now you see Lexus trying to buy into that market with the IS-F and with new marketing techniques (seen their new commercials showing the GS powersliding?)
It will be years before anyone considers Lexus a true performance oriented company, if at all.
That's why it's invaluable to have that presence and recognition. I sure hope the new owners realize that.....
Another good technique for sales is to create higher performance variants of the Viper, much like the Chevy is doing with the Corvette. Those one-off limited edition performance cars sure do sell well.
I saw this elsewhere, so allow me to cut and paste...
Quote:
Originally Posted by InjectTheVenom
but what about the post earlier in this thread with the Edmunds article?
Actually, Edmunds is off base on a couple points. First and most importantly, the platform is NOT a money loser. Second, just because the plant itself has not been earmarked for the long term doesn't mean the Viper shares the same fate. Indeed, Chrysler's Arizona proving grounds will be closing permanently next month. The local Phoenix paper announced it in 2005 with this lead-in: "New homes will replace Dodge Vipers and PT Cruisers on a huge piece of land northwest of Phoenix, where automaker Chrysler has tested its vehicles since 1958." So what does that mean for Chrysler products? Nothing: Yesterday they held the ribbon cutting ceremony for the NEW Chrysler Arizona proving grounds in Yucca:
Chrysler Ribbon Cutting YUCCA, AZ 11-01-07 - Chrysler LLC will celebrate the dedication of its new Chrysler Arizona Proving Ground in Yucca with a ribbon-cutting ceremony tomorrow at the facility. The Company will announce investment plans which was purchased earlier this month. The economy in the area is expected to get a robust boost thanks to the decision by Chrysler to buy the Proving Grounds from Ford.
Just because a company closes an older, outdated facility doesn't mean that the product can't be located elsewhere. It's like moving to a new house - that doesn't mean that you are dead, just that you relocated. Too many people seem to forget that and speculate that the possible demise of the facility equates to the demise of the vehicle produced there. Just like when they stopped making Corvettes 25 years ago after the St. Louis plant closed. No, wait - they STILL make Corvettes, just at a different plant. Interestingly enough, when I did a quick search to find out when they moved to Bowling Green I found this little tidbit in one of the more recent articles:
"The only factory in the world that builds the iconic sports car, General Motors' Bowling Green plant rolled out its first Corvette in Kentucky 25 years ago on June 1, 1981. Industry analysts say the plant remains a bright spot for General Motors Corp. at a time when sagging sales have led the automaker to eliminate 30,000 U.S. hourly jobs by 2008 as part of a massive restructuring plan. About 35,000 Corvettes are assembled at the plant each year -- a small fraction of the 9 million vehicles GM is expected to produce worldwide this year.
But the Corvette -- which sells for around $50,000 -- is not intended to make piles of money, but instead to create a brand identity and to lure customers into Chevy dealerships to buy other vehicles, said David Healy, an analyst with New York-based Burnham Securities Inc. "It's microscopic, but it does the job as a marketing tool for Chevy," Healy said. "Indirectly it makes money because it gives cachet to Chevy, which otherwise might suffer from lack of charisma."
And rumor has it that Conner Avenue has NO scheduled downtime for the remainder of the 2008 model year production. The same cannot be said for other plants. Indeed, Viper sales and production overall is as strong as it has ever been*. Some people seem to equate the overproduction from a couple years ago as a bad sign for the car. Don't read anything more into it than simple supply exceeding demand - Chrysler was doing that across virtually all model lines, not just the Viper.
The bottom line is that the Viper is very much alive and well. And as far as I am concerned, will be for the foreseeable future. What else could possibly give Dodge or Chrysler that "cachet" as the Vette does for Chevy? Oh, the Challenger is going to be one very hot ticket - but don't forget that the last one was only around for five years before it petered out (sales down 85% from the first year). That barely gave it enough time to become a star, much less the superstar the Viper has clearly become.
* Viper sales by model year show the current Viper to be selling the same or even more than previous years:
Hmmm.... Of course I hope the Viper continues to be produced, but one that owns a GenI/Gen II can't help but think, "I wonder how this will effect the value of my Viper?". Or even the speculation of the end being near.
I agree with most of what you stated! Thanks for telling "the rest of the story!" They kill the Viper and they KILL an american icon......eventually killing themselves by shooting themselves in the foot. Well...."that's not a mortal wound!"....some would say.....however.....that kind of wound gets infected easily.....then gangrene sets in, and THEN death occurs......
The Viper ain't goin' nowhere. :thumbdown: There's still a lot more HP on the table and the body can stay the same, if you ask me. The relationship between auto critics and the consumers is a love/hate deal and this fact is poved every single time.
I saw this elsewhere, so allow me to cut and paste...
Actually, Edmunds is off base on a couple points. First and most importantly, the platform is NOT a money loser. Second, just because the plant itself has not been earmarked for the long term doesn't mean the Viper shares the same fate. Indeed, Chrysler's Arizona proving grounds will be closing permanently next month. The local Phoenix paper announced it in 2005 with this lead-in: "New homes will replace Dodge Vipers and PT Cruisers on a huge piece of land northwest of Phoenix, where automaker Chrysler has tested its vehicles since 1958." So what does that mean for Chrysler products? Nothing: Yesterday they held the ribbon cutting ceremony for the NEW Chrysler Arizona proving grounds in Yucca:
Chrysler Ribbon Cutting YUCCA, AZ 11-01-07 - Chrysler LLC will celebrate the dedication of its new Chrysler Arizona Proving Ground in Yucca with a ribbon-cutting ceremony tomorrow at the facility. The Company will announce investment plans which was purchased earlier this month. The economy in the area is expected to get a robust boost thanks to the decision by Chrysler to buy the Proving Grounds from Ford.
Just because a company closes an older, outdated facility doesn't mean that the product can't be located elsewhere. It's like moving to a new house - that doesn't mean that you are dead, just that you relocated. Too many people seem to forget that and speculate that the possible demise of the facility equates to the demise of the vehicle produced there. Just like when they stopped making Corvettes 25 years ago after the St. Louis plant closed. No, wait - they STILL make Corvettes, just at a different plant. Interestingly enough, when I did a quick search to find out when they moved to Bowling Green I found this little tidbit in one of the more recent articles:
"The only factory in the world that builds the iconic sports car, General Motors' Bowling Green plant rolled out its first Corvette in Kentucky 25 years ago on June 1, 1981. Industry analysts say the plant remains a bright spot for General Motors Corp. at a time when sagging sales have led the automaker to eliminate 30,000 U.S. hourly jobs by 2008 as part of a massive restructuring plan. About 35,000 Corvettes are assembled at the plant each year -- a small fraction of the 9 million vehicles GM is expected to produce worldwide this year.
But the Corvette -- which sells for around $50,000 -- is not intended to make piles of money, but instead to create a brand identity and to lure customers into Chevy dealerships to buy other vehicles, said David Healy, an analyst with New York-based Burnham Securities Inc. "It's microscopic, but it does the job as a marketing tool for Chevy," Healy said. "Indirectly it makes money because it gives cachet to Chevy, which otherwise might suffer from lack of charisma."
And rumor has it that Conner Avenue has NO scheduled downtime for the remainder of the 2008 model year production. The same cannot be said for other plants. Indeed, Viper sales and production overall is as strong as it has ever been*. Some people seem to equate the overproduction from a couple years ago as a bad sign for the car. Don't read anything more into it than simple supply exceeding demand - Chrysler was doing that across virtually all model lines, not just the Viper.
The bottom line is that the Viper is very much alive and well. And as far as I am concerned, will be for the foreseeable future. What else could possibly give Dodge or Chrysler that "cachet" as the Vette does for Chevy? Oh, the Challenger is going to be one very hot ticket - but don't forget that the last one was only around for five years before it petered out (sales down 85% from the first year). That barely gave it enough time to become a star, much less the superstar the Viper has clearly become.
* Viper sales by model year show the current Viper to be selling the same or even more than previous years:
Good post. In fact, they are working OT to build the 08s. That should show that there is a pretty hefty demand. The reason for the slow 06 sales is due to the 08's coming out and people knowing that there would be a significant HP increase.
IF the Viper does ever end ... it will be the Government that ends it, just like the old Race Hemi and the street hemi.
The danger is from "Green" people who are jealous(?) or just don't want us to drive anything better than the cheap junk they drive. I had a German Tourist tell me that, "You shouldn't even be able to drive that kind of car on a Park." That kind of car? In a Park? This is Canada - don't like it? Go back to Germany! The "Green" people that live here should move to where pollution is a problem (dysintary,cholera, aids, etc.) and DO SOMETHING! Here in Canada even if we all tried we couldn't pollute the largest country in the world with our lousy 32,000,000 people. Get lost GREENS. We have parks to keep buildings out, not people and cars. Unlike Germany we use our cars to get wherever we're going. Transit is a city thing, same as Buses and Trains.
The Government and/or organizations are the ones that screw up our cars. If it's not pollition requirements then it'll be adding restrictor plates because Vipers are too fast for Ferrari's and Porsches.
The Bugatti Veyron isn't a money loser at $1,700,000. As a matter of fact the entire hometown of Bugatti is becoming a total Bugatti town. The township is changing over to an industry based on Bugatti restorations and Bugatti history. Kinda cool that the world's fastest car is pumping tons of money into such a small area and saving the local economy.
There is so much money in supercars that even BMW makes a V10 500hp engine for their M5 and M6 now. Maybe Chrysler doesn't make much/any money on the Viper - the returns for building the best value supercar makes them the world's best. I don't understand why they didn't raise the price for 2008. These cars are worth about $250,000 if you compare them to the rest of the world. A Veyron might be slightly more desirable, but I wouldn't buy one if I had the money because they're too funny looking.
Like most people I've met, I prefer my Viper over Ferraris, Porsches and all the rest of the supercars. Viper is the best!
SRT makes the Viper and it sells 430hp hemi cars. It's not just about the Viper. I can't think of a fast chev or Ford except the GT, the GT 500 and the Z06 vette. Do they make anything to compare to the JeepSRT, the 300SRT or the charger SRT? Maybe they just never got noticed because of the Viper and SRT hype?
The relationship between auto critics and the consumers is a love/hate deal and this fact is poved every single time.