As more and more information comes in about the '08, it is becoming common knowledge that they are going to be a lot more difficult to build up than the '06's. With the price plummeting, it is a great time to grab one before they are all gone.
Any in your area (convertibles) that can had for a good price? I live in Palm Coast FL and will be wanting one after the settlement of my wrecked one completes.
Any in your area (convertibles) that can had for a good price? I live in Palm Coast FL and will be wanting one after the settlement of my wrecked one completes.
BleByu from Ringgold has one, as he mentioned above. I bought mine from him because the dealers in FL wanted way too much money.
What is it that makes these cars more difficult to mod? Isn't it just the computer? I would think once that is figured out, you would be able to mod them just as easily.
Aren't they incorporating variable valve timing into that motor to omake more power? It would be alot harder to mod because there will be more technology in that motor rather than the 06 and under just have the straight motor. please correct me if i'm wrong anyone...
John Hennessey thinks they will be more difficult to modify. The compression ratio is definitely a factor but there are several other issues as well. Maybe John, Jason or some of the other builders can answer the call.
Aren't they incorporating variable valve timing into that motor to omake more power? It would be alot harder to mod because there will be more technology in that motor rather than the 06 and under just have the straight motor. please correct me if i'm wrong anyone...
Compression ratio could certainly be an issue. A lot of the guys going FI are doing pistons, so that's not a big deal for them. I think Variable Valve Timing could only help. It's just like an extra mod, that couldn't be done before. Technology shouldn't be a bad thing. I believe some later model supra's had variable valve timing, and if memory serves me right, they made some decent power when modded. The computer may be tough to crack though.
there are a few reasons, I have posted on this extensively:
1. Higher comp ratio, new internals or head work neccessary for FI, not a big deal, but it eliminates virutally all "bolt on" possibilities.
2. Computer issues, This new VC is VERY complex, and there is nothing currently in the aftermarket to replace it, and Dodge certainly isnt going to help. And with 300,000 lines of code to decipher, I dont think we will see a company like AEM tackle this for YEARS... there wont be a market until then. We are starting from scratch with the VC- its not a carryover like Gen-2 to Gen-3.
3. VVT, this system is based on an N/A car, not a car with forced induction. The setup will fall on its face if boosted, and since there is no way to "turn it off" or calibrate it differently, we are shit out of luck. (see #2)
4. Throttle-By-Wire, not really a problem- if we had CONTROL of it. you can bet your bottom dollar that piggy-back type controllers will not work with the VC due to issues running smoothly with an other-than-yourself entity directly driving the throttle boddies, as well as the sure-as-shit limp and safe modes built into this controller. If you unplug something and pop a code, I bet you dont get WOT anymore. Again, #2... no way to change them.
5. The obvious, a new exhaust and intake configuration, unforseen cooling capabilities with the electric fans over the hydraulic system that we KNOW works well beyond what we need, new drivetrain aftermarket support (or lack thereof) etc, etc... there is no aftermarket currently in place for these parts, and that in iteself will take time. It becomes increasingly difficult however when there isnt even a way to TEST anything on these cars due to lack of tuning ability.
6. MAF, not really a problem, but a learning curve. it is a departure from what Vipers generally use in their tuning system.
I have said it before and I'll say it again. I see the 92-06 cars in the future as the BIG power cars. The aftermarket is in place, we are on the verge of having full control over the PCM's at an end-user level, and they dont have the VC in the way. The 2008 cars I see becoming Normally Aspirated MONSTERS in short order however, and they will probably keep that crown due to VVT. But for many people, thats not enough, and that should also help the values of 03-06 cars. The fact that the 08 is based on the 06 block also helps. Many of the things that we DO want from 08 we CAN have, Such as the revised oiling system, the new heads (remains to be seen how they hold up...), Manifold, etc.
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Daniel Lesser
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'04 White Mamba Viper SRT-10
'08 Black Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8
Last edited by Final GTS : January 27th, 2007 at 01:12 AM.
Aren't they incorporating variable valve timing into that motor to omake more power? It would be alot harder to mod because there will be more technology in that motor rather than the 06 and under just have the straight motor. please correct me if i'm wrong anyone...
Look at it this way........
If kids today can hop up Hondas, the top tuners will be able to work with the new engine/ecu.
It will take some time, and most definitely work, but it will be done.
After all, and this is as our old long lost pal Craig would say....
It is just an S2000 anyway. Just now it has vtec and a ricer wing to go along with the rest.
If kids today can hop up Hondas, the top tuners will be able to work with the new engine/ecu.
It will take some time, and most definitely work, but it will be done.
After all, and this is as our old long lost pal Craig would say....
It is just an S2000 anyway. Just now it has vtec and a ricer wing to go along with the rest.
I think its a little different. The top tuners still require companies like AEM to back them that specialize in just that, ECU's. A company like AEM is NOT going to take on a monumental project if there is no audience for it yet. And in order for there to BE an audience, the cars have to be sold- thats going to take time. The current AEM platform will not work for this new car, and they have to be able to justify the expense on their end before working on a new platform. Hondas on the other hand, are dime a dozen, with a HUGE audience... AEM has no problem jumping through hoops with that kind of an audience.
I think its a little different. The top tuners still require companies like AEM to back them that specialize in just that, ECU's. A company like AEM is NOT going to take on a monumental project if there is no audience for it yet. And in order for there to BE an audience, the cars have to be sold- thats going to take time. The current AEM platform will not work for this new car, and they have to be able to justify the expense on their end before working on a new platform. Hondas on the other hand, are dime a dozen, with a HUGE audience... AEM has no problem jumping through hoops with that kind of an audience.
Dan, there are some very smart people who work with these cars, and I am sure more plenty will be in the future. To say no one will be able to "mod these" is laughable.
If someone can design it, someone will find a way to work with it. This is not rocket science, nor is it voodoo.
Now why is it that stuff like this comes to the top, and gets discussed before the car even is in the publics hands?
Dan, there are some very smart people who work with these cars, and I am sure more plenty will be in the future. To say no one will be able to "mod these" is laughable.
If someone can design it, someone will find a way to work with it. This is not rocket science, nor is it voodoo.
Now why is it that stuff like this comes to the top, and gets discussed before the car even is in the publics hands?
Gotta love speculation.
Someone mark this thread and remember it.
I never said nobody will be able to mod them, if that was directed at me. What I did say is that it is going to be exceedingly difficult compared to 96-06 cars (for FI at least) and is going to take quite a bit of time for the aftermarket to catch up, moreso than we are used to. This new engine is a departure from the current EMS system, and you cant do ANYTHING to it without propper calibration, even the throttle is controlled by the PCM.
While I wont pretend to know exactly what makes the VC tick, I can certainly see whats on the outside, and what I do know is how difficult it is to work with the CURRENT PCM's. If it wasnt for companies like AEM, the huge power cars would not be as "huge" as they are. With all of the aftermarket we have, only ONE company (DC) has gotten into the current PCMs, and I suspect it was with help from the inside- and even they havent perfected it yet. The new VC is even more complex, and if you think that Dodge made this one easier to work with than the current one, you have forgotten how touchy Dodge is about anyone working with their computers, it is likely 10x worse.
I think you read into what I was saying incorrectly. I was mainly stating that the Honduh boys and the Viper boys are in a different boat. They have numbers, we have to build our numbers before we get noticed, and that in itself takes time. Its not like it was last time with AEM where we had all of the 96+ cars to add to our total customer base when they began working with the (virtually identical) later Gen-2 & Gen-3 cars. Remember, AEM wasnt even out for Gen-2 when the Gen-3 was out, there was quite a few years of built up demand by then to justify their expense.
Last edited by Final GTS : January 27th, 2007 at 05:11 PM.
Dan, there are some very smart people who work with these cars, and I am sure more plenty will be in the future. To say no one will be able to "mod these" is laughable.
If someone can design it, someone will find a way to work with it. This is not rocket science, nor is it voodoo.
Now why is it that stuff like this comes to the top, and gets discussed before the car even is in the publics hands?
Then send me my commision for the advice. 
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