Really? Show me one video of a bone stock FGT running an 11.5 or better on the factory street tires.
I can show you about 4-5 vids, atleast, of C6 Z06's running that time, and, I can show you a vid of me beating a FGT from a roll with a very experienced driver behind the wheel of the GT who happens to take part of this forum. But, I'd rather not get into that and stay on topic..
I always thought FGT's ran <11.5 near 130 but that could have been the ones with mods.
90 hp overcomes the weight and gearing disadvantage of the viper. The viper will be slightly faster. The SS should trounce them both. However the viper still holds the modability factor and has much greater potential with mods, N/A or FI.
The Blue Devil will start at around 100k and be marked up to 115 or 120k and it's worth it for the performance but the flying tops and weak rear ends have to go in a car that price.
As far as the Road Course, I still corvette because it's lighter and lighter is always better, the gearing is better which shaves time with less shifts, but the viper does have better traction (stock). On a road course the best driver will still win. Before, the vette could be even with a slightly less experienced driver.
90 hp overcomes the weight and gearing disadvantage of the viper. The viper will be slightly faster. The SS should trounce them both. However the viper still holds the modability factor and has much greater potential with mods, N/A or FI.
The Blue Devil will start at around 100k and be marked up to 115 or 120k and it's worth it for the performance but the flying tops and weak rear ends have to go in a car that price.
As far as the Road Course, I still corvette because it's lighter and lighter is always better, the gearing is better which shaves time with less shifts, but the viper does have better traction (stock). On a road course the best driver will still win. Before, the vette could be even with a slightly less experienced driver.
The current Viper and the C6 Z06 are already very close on the roadcourse, so the new 08 Viper should beat the current Z06 (Wow, did I just defend the Viper? lol..I guess that is what happens when one doesn't let passion blind them from facts..)
As far as the new Corvette SS, yes, if indeed it does come in at the speculated hp and weight figures, it will trounce both the C6 Z06 and the new Viper coupe, along with anything with a price tag of less than 600K.
I can't believe the C6 Z06 has been out for over a year now, and people STILL don't realize how much faster it is in a straight line. The CURRENT Viper has better traction and launching than the Z, and is STILL more than .25 seconds behind the Z in the quarter mile. Then when you talk about trap speeds (How FAST the car actually is) the Z is way ahead of the Viper (usually 4mph).
That being said, this hypothetical matchup is a good one. You give the Viper the worst case scenario, and the current Z06 would still be faster. Worst case being that the '08 still weighs 3400+lbs and has about 480rwhp (580bhp with more than 15% drivetrain loss). Put the Viper in the best case scenario, and it will be a lot faster than the current Z (under-rated, making around 530rwhp and weighing very close to the same as the Z).
It's an interesting situation to bring up, and none of us will really know until the car comes out. It honestly could go either way.
However, if the Viper DOES NOT lose weight...I don't see it having enough horsepower to really blow the Z out of the water.
One guy just posted that c6Z06's dyno 460 rwhp while the current SRT10's dyno 430 rwhp...
Come on man dont underrate the current SRT 10 like that...
C6Z06's dyno 450 rwhp on average...
SRT10's dyno 440 rwhp on average....
The gen 1 viper was rated at 400 HP and constantly dynoed 365 rwhp...Thats a 9% drive train loss and yes the car was under rated...
The gen 2 viper was rated at 450 HP and constantly dynoed 410 rwhp...Once again a 9% drive train loss and also under rated....
The gen 3 viper was rated at 510 HP and constantly dynoed 440 rwhp...This is a 12% drive train loss...( wich could still be considered under rated by the universal manual standard of 15%) but about right in my eyes...
The point of this is that SRT seems to know what they need to do to put the viper on top based on the imfo thats been given so far..
DO YOU REALLY THINK THE 600 HP IS GONNA LOOSE 15%??????
IM PUTTING MY MONEY ON 9-12%...JUST LIKE IT'S BEEN FOR THE PAST 14 YEARS...
600 crank HP minus 12% drive train loss .....That would equate to 528 rwhp....
An gen 3 with 440 rwhp is more than capable of running 12.0 at 121 mph...With an addittional 88 rwhp bringing the rwhp to 528....
Easy 11.4's at 127 mph with an average driver....
Compared to the C6Z06's 11.7 at 125 mph with an average driver...
SRT DIDNT BUILD THIS NEW VIPER TO RUN EVEN WITH THE C6Z06....IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS FROM THE SPECS ALONE THEY BUILT IT AIMED AT THE FORD GT...
BTW FADI...a FordGT is faster than a C6Z06 buy a considerable margin in the 1/4 mile.....And it's not even a race after 140.
Sorry they dont make 10,000 FordGT's a year so I cant show you 5 videos of guys running bone stock GT's...
Should be a no brainer to get rid of 200 pounds between the run flats, the two piece intake manifold, lighter hood. Read a post on the Morg I believe where a guy lost 25 pounds by changing the seat supports !
Lets face it, the corvette is just a bitch that climbed on top for one romp. She's back on the bottom, getting drilled as god intended her to be. Now all we have to do is tell all the Z owners to put the lipstick back on and reassume their proper roles.
It is very easy to take weight off of the Viper already. Wheels, tires, exhaust, 2 piece aluminum rotors and you remove at least 150 pounds. I am sure that Chrysler could easily take off that much weight or more without breaking a sweat. The confusing thing is, why haven't they announced the weight when they have announced so many other specifications?
Anything is a drivers race. A C5 Z06 and an SRT-10 is a drivers race. This can be said about any two cars if one driver is an idiot. Bottom line is that the C6 Z06 walks away from an SRT-10 (03-06) in a straight line, with them being very close on the road course.
Someone mentioned that the new Viper will come in at 3180 lbs. If that is the case, then I agree, the C6 Z06 is histroy. But, where did you hear this? My post was made on the assumption of 3400 lbs which is what the mags stated. Where are you getting 3180 from?
As far as the Corvette SS, please, don't kid yourself. That car, if it actually comes out at 650 bhp and 3000 lbs, it will trounce the 08 Viper. But, that is just IF it comes out at these figures. Only time will tell. As of now, I really want to see a race between a C6 Z06 and the 08 Viper in a straight line. Given the stats that I read (580 - 600 bhp @3400 lbs), I think it will be a really close race, with maybe a slight edgde going to the Viper.
On the road course, yes, the new 08 Viper will beat the C6 Z06 especially since the current Viper and the C6 Z06 are already close on the race track.
I am gonna have to disagree with you that the c5Z06 vs srt-10 is a driver's race. There are exceptions to every rule and there have been some very fast C5Z06's but as a whole chevy and their owners have been highly optimistic. Their optimism is defintitely justified with the c6zo6 i might add. But with my experience screwing around with the C5Z's, and riding in/driving my friend's, the viper is faster hands down. Equal drivers, viper will be to 60 3-4 tenths of a second quicker at the least.
I too am curious to see an all out straightline race between a new Z and the new Viper. As for the road course, I am convinced to viper will take it hands down, even in the magazines. I could be wrong, but from what I have heard, the real world viper lap times from guys who know how to drive the car, are actually a lot quicker than what the mags post.
It's a driver's race between the current models, another 90hp is gonna seal the deal.
On a road course I agree. I used to worry about the new Zo6. Now that I've run with them at willow.....nah....no big deal. They are faster than the older Zo6. Those used to really slow me up. The new ones save me a little brake wear.
I'm with Chuck as I think this would be a great track car. I'm also curious if Dodge had some other things planned like a special "ACR" edition in the works.
BTW...I did call Bill and am waiting for a call back.
And it stomps the current Viper in a straight line. There is a .3-.5 secs in favor to the Z06 up to the 1/4 and a 3-4 mph difference. The gap only widens as the speeds increases...
Not coming off a turn at 90 MPH into a 2500 foot straight it doesn't.
It depends on what magazine you read. One mag stated that the Z06 weighs 3240, which makes it 200 pounds lighter than the current Viper. I am not sure which weight is correct (3140 or 3240). The fact is that the Viper is a far better platform for modifications and is built ten times better. The orange peel paint job on Z06's is horrendous. The interior is lifeless and cheap. The steering wheel blows. The wheels are cast and the Vipers are forged. The Viper is shockingly beautiful while the Z06 looks nice from some angles and like a hack job from others. The Viper has beaten the ever living piss out of it in performance for 13 years running. The Z edged it out in acceleration (not as a road racer) for one year. Lets face it, the corvette is just a bitch that climbed on top for one romp. She's back on the bottom, getting drilled as god intended her to be. Now all we have to do is tell all the Z owners to put the lipstick back on and reassume their proper roles.
I owned a C5 Head/Cam Z06 that made 450rwhp before I got my Viper. The car was sick fast but was lacking something. I took my old 442 over to Walden's here in Atlanta and asked him about the new Z's. He said that with Kooks headers and a Honker intake the vettes are putting down around 520 rwhp with tuning. 520 x 15% loss is around 600 hp.
I am not stirring the pot, I like both the Viper and the vette actually but those are some sick numbers on the new Z's. Real world shit too!
One guy just posted that c6Z06's dyno 460 rwhp while the current SRT10's dyno 430 rwhp...
Come on man dont underrate the current SRT 10 like that...
C6Z06's dyno 450 rwhp on average...
SRT10's dyno 440 rwhp on average....
The gen 1 viper was rated at 400 HP and constantly dynoed 365 rwhp...Thats a 9% drive train loss and yes the car was under rated...
The gen 2 viper was rated at 450 HP and constantly dynoed 410 rwhp...Once again a 9% drive train loss and also under rated....
The gen 3 viper was rated at 510 HP and constantly dynoed 440 rwhp...This is a 12% drive train loss...( wich could still be considered under rated by the universal manual standard of 15%) but about right in my eyes...
The point of this is that SRT seems to know what they need to do to put the viper on top based on the imfo thats been given so far..
DO YOU REALLY THINK THE 600 HP IS GONNA LOOSE 15%??????
IM PUTTING MY MONEY ON 9-12%...JUST LIKE IT'S BEEN FOR THE PAST 14 YEARS...
600 crank HP minus 12% drive train loss .....That would equate to 528 rwhp....
An gen 3 with 440 rwhp is more than capable of running 12.0 at 121 mph...With an addittional 88 rwhp bringing the rwhp to 528....
Easy 11.4's at 127 mph with an average driver....
Compared to the C6Z06's 11.7 at 125 mph with an average driver...
SRT DIDNT BUILD THIS NEW VIPER TO RUN EVEN WITH THE C6Z06....IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS FROM THE SPECS ALONE THEY BUILT IT AIMED AT THE FORD GT...
BTW FADI...a FordGT is faster than a C6Z06 buy a considerable margin in the 1/4 mile.....And it's not even a race after 140.
Sorry they dont make 10,000 FordGT's a year so I cant show you 5 videos of guys running bone stock GT's...
Good point. I did not know of all the previous generations' normal dyno numbers. I was assuming the Viper had more drivetrain loss because it was rated at 5hp higher than the Z06, but generally dyno's 10 - 15rwhp less. This lead me to believe that either the Z was more under-rated, or the Viper had a bigger drivetrain loss (or both). I know several European magazines and shows rate the Z06 at 512bhp.
Either way, you are probably right about the new Viper dyno'ing well over 510rwhp...which is more than enough to take out the Z in straight line performance.
One thing you're wrong on, is the production numbers of the Z. They made about 6,000 in 2006, not 10,000
Let me start off by saying I have a gen2 viper, gen3 viper, and a viper truck. I have never owned a corvette...
Lets take a look at the HP war.....BTW, I don't care about flywheel hp, rear wheel all the way!
Z06 3100 lbs 460 RWHP some have more
.1483 power to weight ratio(the higher the number the better)
NEW Viper 3400 lbs and if they stick to the below par drivetrain loss of the gen3 510HP flywheel equals 430 RWHP ~16% driveline loss then lets look at the new viper 600HP flywheel equals 504RWHP
.1482 power to weight ratio
If the info above is correct then my thought is with equal drivers the Z06 and the viper would be really close but unfortunately the z06 would probably win. No blow out here for sure!
HOwever, lets go back to the good ol days when creampuffs came out with 415-425rwhp stock at 450 flywheel horsepower. WAY UNDER RATED JUST LIKE THE VETTE!
2008 viper 540-550 rwhp and the rumored 200lbs weight loss
.1718 power to weight ratio
Now that would be a huge blow out! Lets hope it is like the good ol days!!!
Z06 RWHP figures have been in the 450 rabge, but MANY are dynoing in the 420's. Like all crappy shop dynos, they all vary. One of the tuners that works very closely with GM and has Dyno's well over 75 LS7 motors FOR GM has said that the SAE 505hp is right on the dot. There is nothing magical about the Z06's drivetrain where it would only lose 10% to the wheels and I would say its more in the 425rwhp range.
I seriously dobt now with all the attention that Dodge will get from the debut of the 08 that Dodge will now come through with a 580hp base hp motor. I would lean towards an underrated 600. The only problem will be the Blue Devil because it will wipe them both up.
Don't use your moms nickname on me boy.. (If you want to get personal, we can. If you want to act like adults, we can do that too)
The Z06 and the FGT are a lot closer than you think. I have a video that I have of me racing a forum member on here 4 consecutive times in his FGT. We raced 4x in a row from a 50-160 and it was very close each time with me being ahead EVERYTIME at the top end. If he wishes to chime in, he can. Lets just say he owns the FGT forums and knows what he is doing, so driver error is out of the question. Does that mean the Z06 is the faster car due to my experience? Probably not. On a different day, maybe the outcome would have been reversed, I don't know.
Also, the best I have seen out of a FGT is an 11.6 with dr's on. Not saying that is the best it can do, but that is the best I have seen on the internet with a video. I have beaten that in my bone stock Z06 on the stock run flats, and I have the video also. Bottom line is that I have seen, over and over again, vids of Z06's running mid-low 11's bone stock. Show me one video of a FGT doing that.
You can say all you want about the GT vs. Z06, but since you dont own either one and have never raced them against one another, your take on which one is faster is worthless with zero credibility.
Now, back on topic....
Last edited by Fadi : December 29th, 2006 at 04:49 PM.
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