It certainly does. Tuners are already getting an added 26 rwhp from simply modifying timing curves, and leaning the motor by defeating cat overtemp fuel enrichment. I just can't see GM squeezing anything more out of the LS7 at the car's current price point, unless GM was willing to make a smaller profit, which it's not willing to do. I think GM will keep the C6Z a mass produced, relatively low dollar car, since it now has the SS to strut.
Don't forget that the base price of the Z went from 64 grand to 69 grand. GM saw the earning potential by the dealers getting better than 5-10k over sticker. I dont think them bumping the power up hurting their earnings. It could be as simple as what happened with the first Z. A handful of components were not ready for the release and in the following year everything was approved and boom 20HP. I don't think that GM bumping the power on the Z is out of the question at all. Obviously nothing is carved in stone but it would be no surprise to me to see an increase of 20-50 HP. This will be the third model year and it would be nice for something new to sink our teeth into.
I am really going to cut out after this but you guys have all made one thing abundantly clear and that is the Viper really is a great car. The problem lies with the dumbasses that own them. Hope to see you on track cause if I do your FUCKED!
Can one of the Admin's please kill my profile so you all know I'm done with this.
Good. I'm glad you're gone, because I was going to have to start giving you grammar lessons. But, then again, what the fuck should I expect from a probable foreigner who drives a fucking Corvette?
And everyone thinks their baby is the cutest. My C5 coupe is lowered, 6-pot Alcons look through polished forged HRE's, w. 295mm front & 345mm rear rubber. I see a rounded lowered nose that looks similar to an old Superbird's, and a nice big butt (I like my women w. a little meat on their thighs/butt) - a package that delivers a highly functional CD of .28. With a typical CD of .35 for most cars, I see beauty in the C5's engineering/design.
My comment was directed at the C6. The C5 is nice-looking.
Just when I think, "Surely this person has reached and encapsulates the limits of Internet tedium" you go and push the boundary even further. Try learning elementary grammar before attempting to inflict your next literary abomination on this message board.
You're sad attempt at ego preservation has actually made me pitty your pathetic ass. I can almost hear you crying everytime I smash you, and your little joke of a car.
It can't be easy for a little man such as yourself. Your car is probably your whole identity......you could have at least chosen a nice ride. Maybe you wouldn't read like such a pathetic loser if didn't lack even the dim flicker of sentience needed to qualify as a imbecile.
Here's a tip: no one will ever know that you've had a lobotomy if you wear a wig to hide to the scars; stop posting your drivel on message boards, and learn to control the slobbering.
Blah blah blah. Let me tell you one more thing:
You're so ugly, you had tinted windows on your incubator...
Good. I'm glad you're gone, because I was going to have to start giving you grammar lessons. But, then again, what the fuck should I expect from a probable foreigner who drives a fucking Corvette?
Sorry I don't think I can dignify a response to a guy that is proud of his mini van. Guys who drove those often suffer from chronic vaginitus. Sorry to dissappoint you but I am no foreigner.
Last edited by Auto_x_Al : January 17th, 2007 at 01:01 AM.
The Nurburgring lap times you are referring to are both correct. The Porsche Carrera GT lap time was with a "flying" start. The Corvette Z06 lap time was from a standing start.
Anxiously awaiting the new '08 Viper lap times, as well as the upcoming Corvette SS. Buy 'em all, I say.
Considering the start/finish line at the ring is in a low speed section I doubt it would really make a big difference.
Considering the start/finish line at the ring is in a low speed section I doubt it would really make a big difference.
You're probably right... not a huge difference; but enough to explain the spread in lap times. I happened onto the info a few months ago and was just relaying the facts for those who were interested.
I'm not bashing or endorsing... I have several cars and love 'em all. My sportbikes are quicker than my Z06 AND Viper (obviously). So... if I really want an adrenaline kick, I'll get it on 2 wheels.
(Sorry... back to the schlong-schlinging contest. )
The Nurburgring lap times you are referring to are both correct. The Porsche Carrera GT lap time was with a "flying" start. The Corvette Z06 lap time was from a standing start.
this is pretty funny.....the old standing vs. flying start argument. FYI, the info you read is incorrect.
Contrary to what most of you seem to think the LS7 has untapped potential. It really is a race motor out of the box but did you really think that the first iteration was all that it had?
the only way the Z06 gets more power is if they go to a 3V head or direct injection and vvt. I think multi valve will be the only way to gain signifigant HP as the LS7 castings already flow so well and are CNC'd.
i know some people in my area who have had Katech(a local engine builder who built the c5r and c6r motors that have one Lemans and many other races for GM!) mod their c6 Z headers, pcm flash and cam and the cars are making over 550+ rwhp, if you do the heads there is even more hp to be found
i know some people in my area who have had Katech(a local engine builder who built the c5r and c6r motors that have one Lemans and many other races for GM!) mod their c6 Z headers, pcm flash and cam and the cars are making over 550+ rwhp, if you do the heads there is even more hp to be found
Katech and Livernois both have produced some big power with limited mods.
This what people should be considering, whether the '08 Viper will outperform the '08 Z06. The magazines are not going to compare the 500 hp version Z06 to the new Viper if the '08 Z06 gets a horse power increase. Wondering if the new Viper will beat the current Z06 is a no brainier simply because Dodge could constantly measure their gains against the actual car. Contrarily, this strategy was most likely used by GM in assuring their Z06 would in fact beat the current Viper.
If we consider these variables then guessing who will win in '08 may not be that easy to call. We should keep in mind that we are comparing two different motors. When Viper owners arrogantly say "look out Z owners, our newly designed 8.4 liter V-10 is going to beat you" it looks pathetic. It's like a Corvette owner telling a naturally aspirated V-6 competitor that our newly revised larger V-8 is going to beat you! That isn't something to brag about.
It should be embarrassing to Dodge that this debate is even happening...hoping that a large V-10 will stay ahead of a smaller V-8 is shameful. I can't believe this is an issue because it shouldn't be. Dodge should do what is has to do to lead by a considerable margin. If this means Dodge must supercharge their engines to maintain a large gap then they should do so. Lets not forget that the naturally aspirated 488 cubic inch V-10 Viper made less horsepower than a naturally aspirated 350 cubic inch V-8 Corvette ZR-1 for three years (93-95) in a row.
Who cares about hp/l? Do you use that same methodology when comparing the Z06 to a Ferrari, Ford GT, Lambo, etc. The only thing that matters is cost and perfromance )and cost is not as important to some of us ). And by the way GM did boast about beating a smaller displacement Ferrari (close to 1/2 the displacement).
Who cares about hp/l? Do you use that same methodology when comparing the Z06 to a Ferrari, Ford GT, Lambo, etc. The only thing that matters is cost and perfromance )and cost is not as important to some of us ). And by the way GM did boast about beating a smaller displacement Ferrari (close to 1/2 the displacement).
I suppose there is alot to be said about the performance per dollar ratio. I agree with the point you make about about the Z06 beating the F-430, while the performance per dollar ratio goes to the Z06, they should not brag that their LS7 outperformed a motor half the size as you mentioned; that is a pathetic and shallow victory as well. In this respect, one could argue that the F-430 is the better performer.
I authored the thread in the garage section titled Z06 vs. F-430. I think "Toby" objectively responded in a manner that put the entire comparison into perspective. That is of course if money were not a factor.
based on a hp/L or hp/$ does not mean a lot. Look at lap times and performance/handling on a road course is what i would consider to be the best testament of overall performance. Granted that i considered that(at the time and still), you cannot buy a better performing, faster convertable right now even, without spending minimum of $30,000---- and maybe even $200,000+ or more!!!
I agree, bring back an All American showroom stock car class. (What nascar used to be...win on sunday sell on monday.) The viper will be near the top of the class behind the FGT and S7.
The SCCA has its new Super Touring class that includes the C6Z, SRT10 (unrestricted), Ferrari f430 and I beleive the Ford GT.
The SCCA has its new Super Touring class that includes the C6Z, SRT10 (unrestricted), Ferrari f430 and I beleive the Ford GT.
Has there been any confirmation of this yet? I know some were speaking of this around the same time the runoffs were happening. I also heard that the old T1 will still include the Viper and C5 Z06. A friend of mine considered a Viper and he told us that with his investment in the C5 Z06 and current rules it would be a lateral move but he would just have to spend an additional 150k to do it. Maybe the old T1 has the old Viper and ST will have the new one.
I suppose there is alot to be said about the performance per dollar ratio. I agree with the point you make about about the Z06 beating the F-430, while the performance per dollar ratio goes to the Z06, they should not brag that their LS7 outperformed a motor half the size as you mentioned; that is a pathetic and shallow victory as well. In this respect, one could argue that the F-430 is the better performer.
I authored the thread in the garage section titled Z06 vs. F-430. I think "Toby" objectively responded in a manner that put the entire comparison into perspective. That is of course if money were not a factor.
Exactly. Do you see now why this arguement is pointless?
this is pretty funny.....the old standing vs. flying start argument. FYI, the info you read is incorrect.
Ummm... well, even though the info is from a reputable publication that was posting numerous unbiased laptimes, I wasn't AT the Nurburgring to observe the Carrera GT OR the Z06. So... maybe ALL the lap times are questionable, including the Viper runs. Who knows? Take it or leave it.
I'm no troll. This was simply a bit of reference info to pass along to other enthusiasts. It was not intended as an "argument". No excess testosterone secretions from me.
)
). And by the way GM did boast about beating a smaller displacement Ferrari (close to 1/2 the displacement).