This what people should be considering, whether the '08 Viper will outperform the '08 Z06. The magazines are not going to compare the 500 hp version Z06 to the new Viper if the '08 Z06 gets a horse power increase. Wondering if the new Viper will beat the current Z06 is a no brainier simply because Dodge could constantly measure their gains against the actual car. Contrarily, this strategy was most likely used by GM in assuring their Z06 would in fact beat the current Viper.
If we consider these variables then guessing who will win in '08 may not be that easy to call. We should keep in mind that we are comparing two different motors. When Viper owners arrogantly say "look out Z owners, our newly designed 8.4 liter V-10 is going to beat you" it looks pathetic. It's like a Corvette owner telling a naturally aspirated V-6 competitor that our newly revised larger V-8 is going to beat you! That isn't something to brag about.
It should be embarrassing to Dodge that this debate is even happening...hoping that a large V-10 will stay ahead of a smaller V-8 is shameful. I can't believe this is an issue because it shouldn't be. Dodge should do what is has to do to lead by a considerable margin. If this means Dodge must supercharge their engines to maintain a large gap then they should do so. Lets not forget that the naturally aspirated 488 cubic inch V-10 Viper made less horsepower than a naturally aspirated 350 cubic inch V-8 Corvette ZR-1 for three years (93-95) in a row.
So it is ok for a S/C V-8 to say...look at me I can beat a V-10? That like saying a S/C mustang can beat a N/A Vette.
What sorta argument is that? It is actually good that this debate is going on, because it shows DC and GM what people are discussing about their products.
From your post you, its seems as tho you think DC made this new engine (and it is not a lot larger...went from 8.3 to 8.4 from 03...4 years, whoopie) with just the intentions to beat the current Z06. The new engine is not targeted at the current Z06, DC is much smarter than that, give them some credit. What you see of this engine is in its infancy, I am sure that this new engine will have way more and keeping it N/A. I can assure you that the SS/Blue devil will not come out with what they initially stated for numbers. If GM is smart, which from their financials and performance, I doubt it. The SS/Blue Devil better be a shit loads more than 650. How ignorant would that look for a S/C Vette that is such a big shit to come out with less HP than what the current Viper can do N/A. This in itself might kill the deal for the SS, unless GM puts more money and comes out with a 700HP car, then it will much more expensive than the 100k estimations.
The object of the game is not to match the competitor, but to blow them out of the water. So both GM and DC will not make a "new" car just to say, "o.k. now we even with the other." So with taht being said, the 08 Viper will kick the current's z06 ass...so what...it should. The Blue Devil/SS, should demolish the 08 Viper...who cares...it should. But like I said, Gm should not worry about the 08 Viper, but do something that will keep them 2 steps ahead of DC can do with the 08 enigine and car. With them trying to that, I do not think they can make it cost effect, especially if they are only make 1500 a year for 2 years...
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"Just been Blown and loving it!"
This what people should be considering, whether the '08 Viper will outperform the '08 Z06. The magazines are not going to compare the 500 hp version Z06 to the new Viper if the '08 Z06 gets a horse power increase. Wondering if the new Viper will beat the current Z06 is a no brainier simply because Dodge could constantly measure their gains against the actual car. Contrarily, this strategy was most likely used by GM in assuring their Z06 would in fact beat the current Viper.
If we consider these variables then guessing who will win in '08 may not be that easy to call. We should keep in mind that we are comparing two different motors. When Viper owners arrogantly say "look out Z owners, our newly designed 8.4 liter V-10 is going to beat you" it looks pathetic. It's like a Corvette owner telling a naturally aspirated V-6 competitor that our newly revised larger V-8 is going to beat you! That isn't something to brag about.
It should be embarrassing to Dodge that this debate is even happening...hoping that a large V-10 will stay ahead of a smaller V-8 is shameful. I can't believe this is an issue because it shouldn't be. Dodge should do what is has to do to lead by a considerable margin. If this means Dodge must supercharge their engines to maintain a large gap then they should do so. Lets not forget that the naturally aspirated 488 cubic inch V-10 Viper made less horsepower than a naturally aspirated 350 cubic inch V-8 Corvette ZR-1 for three years (93-95) in a row.
So, what your saying is that the car that makes the most horse power per liter wins even if it gets to the finish line last?? Wow, that makes sense.
If that's true, just about every European and Japanse performance sedan and sports car made kicks the shit out of both the Z06 and the Viper.
What a pathetic argument. When it comes to performance cars, run what ya brung and don't make excuses when you lose.
They(all the auto companies) want bragging rights ! They all want to be quickest, stop the fastest, turn the quickest and most g's, have the fastest lap times and quickest 1/4 mile e.t.'s , not much to brag about being #2. For me the most desirable car will have the fastest lap times on a road course, which i would consider to be the best balance of all the different handling characteristics. It is also some of the criteria i use when considering a sports car when it comes time for me to purchase.
When considering supercar performance at these levels and requiring that the top also be a convertable there are very few other options.
Porsche TT
Lamborghini Murcialago Roadster and Gallardo Spyder
Ferrari F430 spyder
Dodge ViperSRT-10 the only 2 seat convertable sports car in the world with supercar handling and performance that meets my most important criteria--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> MADE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND BETTER YET DETROIT MICHIGAN !!
Dodge ViperSRT-10 the only 2 seat convertable sports car in the world with supercar handling and performance that meets my most important criteria--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> MADE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND BETTER YET DETROIT MICHIGAN !!
So, what your saying is that the car that makes the most horse power per liter wins even if it gets to the finish line last?? Wow, that makes sense.
If that's true, just about every European and Japanse performance sedan and sports car made kicks the shit out of both the Z06 and the Viper.
What a pathetic argument. When it comes to performance cars, run what ya brung and don't make excuses when you lose.
Are you aware of an NA V-6 car that can beat the current flagship Z06?...for less money?
So it is ok for a S/C V-8 to say...look at me I can beat a V-10? That like saying a S/C mustang can beat a N/A Vette.
What sorta argument is that? It is actually good that this debate is going on, because it shows DC and GM what people are discussing about their products.
From your post you, its seems as tho you think DC made this new engine (and it is not a lot larger...went from 8.3 to 8.4 from 03...4 years, whoopie) with just the intentions to beat the current Z06. The new engine is not targeted at the current Z06, DC is much smarter than that, give them some credit. What you see of this engine is in its infancy, I am sure that this new engine will have way more and keeping it N/A. I can assure you that the SS/Blue devil will not come out with what they initially stated for numbers. If GM is smart, which from their financials and performance, I doubt it. The SS/Blue Devil better be a shit loads more than 650. How ignorant would that look for a S/C Vette that is such a big shit to come out with less HP than what the current Viper can do N/A. This in itself might kill the deal for the SS, unless GM puts more money and comes out with a 700HP car, then it will much more expensive than the 100k estimations.
The object of the game is not to match the competitor, but to blow them out of the water. So both GM and DC will not make a "new" car just to say, "o.k. now we even with the other." So with taht being said, the 08 Viper will kick the current's z06 ass...so what...it should. The Blue Devil/SS, should demolish the 08 Viper...who cares...it should. But like I said, Gm should not worry about the 08 Viper, but do something that will keep them 2 steps ahead of DC can do with the 08 enigine and car. With them trying to that, I do not think they can make it cost effect, especially if they are only make 1500 a year for 2 years...
I agree with you on many points, and no, comparing an S/C motor to an N/A motor is different. I think the comparisons should be apples to apples. If the new suprcharged Z06 does beat the Viper, it should bring no shame to the Viper. However, a naturally aspirated V-8 that beats a naturally aspirted larger displacement V-10 is shameful. The V-10 could be making way more horsepower than it does in current form. I submit that its time Dodge utilizes its platform.
Are you aware of an NA V-6 car that can beat the current flagship Z06?...for less money?
Beat it in a race... no. Beat it in terms of hp per per liter... plenty of cars do that for far less money.
Example - BMW M3 - 330 hp from a NA 3.2 liter motor = 103.12 hp per liter
Z06 - 505 hp from a NA 7 liter motor = 72.14 hp per liter
Remember, this is in response to the comment that DC should be ashamed of needing 8.4 liters to top the Z06. If that's true, then we all should be ashamed of needing comparitively huge motors to top an M3, a 997 porche, a Honda S2000, and on and on. It's a rediculous argument. If a car company can build a reliable car that outperforms the competition at a reasonable price, who cares how they do it? It's results that count, not the size of the engine.
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'04 Viper 11.9 @ 118
'05 STi 13.0 @ 105
'96 Supra 10.2 @ 133
Sadly enough, this was with me taking it easy on the car after hearing some horror stories about the half shafts breaking.
From what I understand you didn't just hear horror stories, but your horror show of a car actually broke down, just like it's little bitch owner did in this thread. What was it.....just into your second run you tool?
You have the personality of a damp sponge and the appeal of a moldy sweat sock. You're a waste of time, space, air, flesh, and the rectum you were born from, retard. Now, if you care to apologize for shamelessly wasting my time, I'll consider accepting it.
Last edited by Inferno : January 16th, 2007 at 07:20 PM.
At this point it looks like 430-450 and 550 respectively.
I have heard about the base car getting more HP but not the Z06.....where did you read this? How are they going to get more hp (LS7s are dropping valves as is)?
I have heard about the base car getting more HP but not the Z06.....where did you read this? How are they going to get more hp (LS7s are dropping valves as is)?
Contrary to what most of you seem to think the LS7 has untapped potential. It really is a race motor out of the box but did you really think that the first iteration was all that it had? It has been said that the LS7 will recieve a boost in power. Most who have hinted at it are engineers from around here. Some are within the vette program some are just around it. I work about 30 minutes away from where the C6R is built and maybe an hour from a few of the tech center's.
Not trying to be stupid or whatever I was just wondering 1. what is the weight distribution on a Viper and 2. How much does the motor weigh?
Never really thought about it like that. I would personally be interested in times of the Viper at Nuremburg. The only car ever to record a time faster than the vette was the Porche GT. And there was somespeculation wheather that was a true lap time.
The Nurburgring lap times you are referring to are both correct. The Porsche Carrera GT lap time was with a "flying" start. The Corvette Z06 lap time was from a standing start.
Anxiously awaiting the new '08 Viper lap times, as well as the upcoming Corvette SS. Buy 'em all, I say.
I have heard about the base car getting more HP but not the Z06.....where did you read this? How are they going to get more hp (LS7s are dropping valves as is)?
I had posted that the LS7 might see a mid-gen increase in power, similar to the C4 and C5 mid-gen increases. This was a wild guess, as GM has only discussed the LS3, but is closed-lipped on the LS7. During the very long 13-year life of the C4, we saw the L98, LT1, LT4 and two LT5 engines (380 and 405hp). During the 8-year life of the C5, we saw two LS1 engines (345 and 350hp) and two LS6 engines (385 and 405hp). Since GM sets aside money for each Corvette generation for mid-gen upgrades and improvements, I thought it reasonable to expect something else for the C6Z.
However, I've recently come to believe there may not be an increase in output for the LS7. Being sandwiched between the base Corvette and SS, the C6Z seems to have found its little niche. Also, any increase in power for the LS7 would certainly require GM to incur added expense strengthening C6Z drive train components, and added power will only add to warranty expense. GM has signaled its sensitivity to increased C6Z warranty expense by implementing a new overly conservative torque management algorithm for '07 C6Z's, a change from '06 cars. It also wouldn't surprise me that the fund, set aside for future C6 and C6Z enhancements, had been robbed for the development of the SS (ala SVT's GT40). If there's anything left for the C6Z/LS7, I would expect to see it in '08.
From what I understand, I am just a cock sucker. I am so pissed off that the C6 Z06 is a more superior car, so I feel that I have to come on here and just start splurting out degrading terms to make myself feel better and look like the bitch that I really am. Oh well, maybe one day I will learn to accept facts in life, this time being the fact that the Z06 is just the superior car when it comes to performance and that I am just the little dirt that Fadi walks and shits on everyday.
Now, if you care to apologize for proving to me that I am a worthless piece of shit, I'll consider accepting it. I gotta go now and rub my ass after a session with my boyfriend, saddledick. Afterall, I am the burnmaster!!
Ok, ok...I am sorry, you worthless piece of garbage. There, better?....BITCH!
Last edited by Fadi : January 16th, 2007 at 10:33 PM.
Contrary to what most of you seem to think the LS7 has untapped potential.
It certainly does. Tuners are already getting an added 26 rwhp from simply modifying timing curves, and leaning the motor by defeating cat overtemp fuel enrichment. I just can't see GM squeezing anything more out of the LS7 at the car's current price point, unless GM was willing to make a smaller profit, which it's not willing to do. I think GM will keep the C6Z a mass produced, relatively low dollar car, since it now has the SS to strut.
Ok, ok...I am sorry, you worthless piece of garbage. There, better?....BITCH!
Just when I think, "Surely this person has reached and encapsulates the limits of Internet tedium" you go and push the boundary even further. Try learning elementary grammar before attempting to inflict your next literary abomination on this message board.
You're sad attempt at ego preservation has actually made me pitty your pathetic ass. I can almost hear you crying everytime I smash you, and your little joke of a car.
It can't be easy for a little man such as yourself. Your car is probably your whole identity......you could have at least chosen a nice ride. Maybe you wouldn't read like such a pathetic loser if didn't lack even the dim flicker of sentience needed to qualify as a imbecile.
Here's a tip: no one will ever know that you've had a lobotomy if you wear a wig to hide to the scars; stop posting your drivel on message boards, and learn to control the slobbering.
__________________ You're so ugly, you had tinted windows on your incubator.
..BITCH!