So this smacked-ass has a modded car and compares it to a Viper that runs 12.6, and then talks smack about all Vipers? 10 years ago the Viper was doing 12.1 off the showroom, and few cars could touch it. Today a 12.1 is pretty common, even for ricers. Hell, any douche bag could dump tons of money into a U-haul van and make it faster than a stock Viper with a bad driver.
No vipers would run 12.1 at the track he ran at, it's a slow track with pretty high elevation and bad prep. Im getting a viper hopefully in the near future and see what it does up there.
What does "Whatever, Vipers aren't scary at all. Just a frame with an engine. If you want to be scared, get scared of a car that has engineering to it." mean?
"I am actually not happy at all with my run. I've run high 11.9's with this car @117mph. I am trying to put the finishing touches to the car with the latest mods and it looks like I need to do some re-tunning. My point is that the Viper was not even a problem, I am looking for bigger fish to fry. What is the 1/4 mile numbers for a stock viper anyway? The only way the viper will be a problem is if it is a mid 11sec car stock."
His point is that he's pouring a shit load of money on MODS, but the Viper has to be stock. I just don't understand the mentallity over there.
What does "Whatever, Vipers aren't scary at all. Just a frame with an engine. If you want to be scared, get scared of a car that has engineering to it." mean?
"I am actually not happy at all with my run. I've run high 11.9's with this car @117mph. I am trying to put the finishing touches to the car with the latest mods and it looks like I need to do some re-tunning. My point is that the Viper was not even a problem, I am looking for bigger fish to fry. What is the 1/4 mile numbers for a stock viper anyway? The only way the viper will be a problem is if it is a mid 11sec car stock."
His point is that he's pouring a shit load of money on MODS, but the Viper has to be stock. I just don't understand the mentallity over there.
And to add to that, A Viper traps way more than the 117 that his tuned AMG does. I wonder what he thinks will happen if he runs a Viper from a roll on the street.
Back when my ACR was stock I beat the crap out of a E55 AMG. I don't know if he was stock or not. I'm sure he at least had an exhaust because it was louder than my ACR. But we did 4 or 5 roll-ons down I-5. We'd go 60-160. By 160 I had about 2.5-3 cars on him. It was even until about 80. Then The viper just started to walk away from the E55. I think it has to do with fact they are very heavy.....and has areo like a brick. If memory serves me right the benz's top speed is about 155-160mph. A GEN II GTS will do about 185-190mph...stock.
I'm not the greatest driver by any means. Average at best. My drag skills have gotten better. But when I was stock I did a 12.4@118, my 60ft was 2.2.....and yes, I had 35psi in the rear tires. With the current stock tires I've had 60fts down to the 1.8-1.9 range. I just can't seem to get it any lower than that. So even at my best in a stock car...I *might* pull off a 12.0 or 11.90. I have a vid of a stock 01 GTS viper running 11.67@120.03
Both are great cars in their own right. The E55 just isn't for me though. As a performance car the viper is hands down the winner. As a daily driver...the benz gets the nod.
If memory serves me right the benz's top speed is about 155-160mph. A GEN II GTS will do about 185-190mph...stock.
Uh, it's top speed is 155 because it's limited to that electronically, not because its "aero is like a brick." An ungoverned E55 is at least as fast on the top end as a stock Viper, and very possibly faster (although it may not get there quite as quickly). As for quarter mile races, an excellently driven stock Gen. II or III should be a tad quicker and faster than a stock E55. But, and this is a big but, the E is much, much easier to drive consistently with the auto and traction control, and I think most average drivers (i.e., those without substantial drag racing experience) would post a better time in the E. I haven't run my SRT against my E55, but I can tell you that they are in the same ballpark.
Oh and don't pay any attention to some of the douches on the MB board; there are some good guys over there (as well as some committed drag racers), but there are also a number of complete dipshits.
An ungoverned E55 is at least as fast on the top end as a stock Viper, and very possibly faster (although it may not get there quite as quickly). .
I'd love to test that. It would be sweet to get two stockers and line'em up. Anyone game for this? I'm betting the a GenII GTS top speed would be faster.
The 99' E55AMG had 354hp 395ft-lbs and comes in at 3,750lbs.
The 02' E55AMG had 476hp 516ft-lbs and comes in at 4,045lbs.
A 97 GTS on the other hand 450hp 490ft-lbs and comes in at 3,360lbs.
Yes the 02 has 26hp more and 26ft-lbs more...how ever it's about 685lbs more as well. I couldn't find drag numbers, but I'm sure the vipers got a bit less.
Look at the power between the 02 AMG and the 97 GTS. 26hp/tq isn't much. I honestly don't think 26hp/tq can make up for the 685lbs of heft. It would be nice if we I can find the drag co numbers as well, that would help tell the story.
Would it be a close race....maybe. But it would be the viper who comes down with the win.
Gary....with all due respect. If I put a 685lb cow in the passengers set of your viper...I'm sure it would slow it down a tad.
I'd love to test that. It would be sweet to get two stockers and line'em up. Anyone game for this? I'm betting the a GenII GTS top speed would be faster.
The 99' E55AMG had 354hp 395ft-lbs and comes in at 3,750lbs.
The 02' E55AMG had 476hp 516ft-lbs and comes in at 4,045lbs.
A 97 GTS on the other hand 450hp 490ft-lbs and comes in at 3,360lbs.
Yes the 02 has 26hp more and 26ft-lbs more...how ever it's about 685lbs more as well. I couldn't find drag numbers, but I'm sure the vipers got a bit less.
Stock vs Stock. No way a E55 would win.
So are you still sure about that RED GTS
To answer your question, yes.
First off, the blown E55's debuted in '03, not '02, and that's the car that's being discussed. No way would a W210 (pre-'03) E55 keep up with a Viper.
Second, the car was rated at 469hp in U.S. trim, not 476 (that's a Euro number), but it is abundantly clear that the car is underrated as they dyno in the 410-420 rwhp range stock. Most people believe that the rating was a marketing ploy by MBZ to make the SL/CL/S 55 buyers think they're getting a little more power for their extra $$$ (the same engine is rated at 493hp in those cars), very similar to how Chevy rated the LS-1 at 350 in the Vette and 320 in the Camaro/Trans Am.
I'd like to see a stock for stock top end run as well, but you'd have to have an E with the speed limiter removed (which several tuners can do). I've seen pics guys in Europe have taken of their speedos over 300 kph (186 mph), so it should be fairly close.
BTW, I'm pretty sure the Cd for an '03+ E is .27, which I believe is the slipperiest ever for a sedan (at least when it came out; there might be a slipperier one now). Isn't the Cd for a Viper quite a bit higher than that?
When comparing top speed, it is ALL about power to drag ratio. Weight plays very little role in it. Ask Ron Jr.
My Navigator probably tops out at 115 or so. If I put 600lbs of stuff in the back, it will still run close to the same top speed. It will not get there as quickly, but there will be very little change in top speed.
Same thing with the box trucks I use for deliveries. Those things go exactly 78 mph wide open, drag limited. It doesn't matter if they are completely empty, or loaded up with furniture. As long as the road is level, the top end stay the same give or take a couple mph.
Last edited by GARY J : September 24th, 2006 at 03:20 PM.
When comparing top speed, it is ALL about power to drag ratio. Weight plays very little role in it. Ask Ron Jr.
My Navigator probably tops out at 115 or so. If I put 600lbs of stuff in the back, it will still run close to the same top speed. It will not get there as quickly, but there will be very little change in top speed.
Same thing with the box trucks I use for deliveries. Those things go exactly 78 mph wide open, drag limited. It doesn't matter if they are completely empty, or loaded up with furniture. As long as the road is level, the top end stay the same give or take a couple mph.
Many years ago, while racing a spec neon. Every time I had a passenger I couldn't get the car over 105 on the back strait. Yet by myself in the car I could get just north of 115. I figured the car wasn't as fast because of the extra weight. But maybe what I needed was a longer track. Learn something new every day.
I wonder how much tq plays in with top speed w/ extra lbs in the car.
Does anyone know a stock E55 owner that is willing to do a top speed run? I'm sure we can find a stock viper owner willing to try it. When it comes down to it...this really is the only way to solve this bench race.
When it comes to E55 vs GTS @ Top speed....I'm still thinking the viper would win. I'm a little stubborn.
Many years ago, while racing a spec neon. Every time I had a passenger I couldn't get the car over 105 on the back strait. Yet by myself in the car I could get just north of 115. I figured the car wasn't as fast because of the extra weight. But maybe what I needed was a longer track. Learn something new every day.
I think the most interesting and impressive point here is not that one car is faster than the other but that the E55 is even in a discussion about performance with a Viper. Truly impressive 4-door luxury car.
Just think what a 2 door Merc would do to a Viper, like a CLK63 or ANY of the 65's.
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