NEW 3.5 INCH EXHAUST FOR THE DODGE VIPER SRT 10. This is a low restriction exhaust that bolts directly on to your factor header. Provides over 30 lbs in weight savings from factory system . Deletes catalytic converters and eliminates rear H pipe cross over. This system provides a deep exhaust note but will still meet the track noise restrictions. It offers a 3.5 inch collector that bolts on to your factory header with 02 bungs in place and v band clamps. A strait through Stainless Steel 3.5 inch muffler and black heat coated pipes. You can also retain your factory heat Shields (or use exhaust heat wrap). This system will provide big horse power and torque gains on factory vehicles through out the entire rpm range(25+ hp). And will provide even more horse power and torque gains for supercharged or modified SRT 10's. Cost of complete bolt on system $1299.00 please contact me through PM for any info or questions regarding custom systems for your viper.
Ok riddle me this, what is the purpose of putting a 3.5" pipe behind a 3" collector? And what benefit does it offer over a 3" pipe like the corsas that will obviously weigh even less?
Now onto the 2nd part of the test. An N/A viper motor at 6500 rpm pulls right around 900cfm and at 15psi will be in the 1800 range.
Now seeing that a 1^2" section of pipe measured at the standard 10.5" vac will flow right around 115cfm, how will an exhaust flowing 2200cfm make more power than one flowing 1600? Remember the engine is only flowing 900 at redline.
note: This is assuming the muffler is not impeding airflow, which they generally don't on a good system.
Anxiously awaiting your sure to be oh so technical response
Oh and if you claim these are for supercharged cars, you will find the SC systems are pretty much maxed out at 10psi, which will still have them falling with in the range of the 1600cfm 3" pipes.
So other than being harder to mount, heavier, and going for the bigger is better angle, do tell, how are these going to prove any advantage over 3".
TO THE FORMER PFR : PLENTY OF PEOPLE SELL ITEMS ON HERE I DIDN'T KNOW THAT YOU WERE THE COLLECTION AGENCY????
TO ROGUE GTS: FIRST YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN MY SYSTEM. SECONDLY, THE CORSA RETAINS THE FACTORY CATALYTIC CONVERTERS MY SYSTEM DOES NOT. AND THE CORSA USES HEAVIER MUFFLERS THAN THE RACE 3.5 MUFFLER THAT I USE. THERES YOUR WEIGHT SAVINGS . TECHNICALLY YOU MUST BE AN IDIOT TO TELL ME MY SYSTEM IS HARDER TO PUT ON OR WEIGHS MORE IF YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN IT. IT IS A "COMPLETE BOLT ON SYSTEM" IT MIGHT JUST BE HARDER FOR YOU TO PUT ON!!!!!!
I AM NOT HERE TO EDUCATE YOU OR HAVE A PETTY ARGUMENT WITH YOU, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT SIMPLY DON'T BUY IT!!!!!!
FOR SUPER CHARGED/TURBO/BIG CUBE CARS LESS BACK PRESSURE MEANS MORE POWER IN THE HIGHER RPM RANGE (AN INSIGHT JUST FOR YOU)
TO CHAD : DON'T YOU RUN A DUAL 3.5 EXHAUST! I RUN A FIVE INCH ON MY SINGLE TURBO! CONGRATS ON THE PERFORMANCE! THE CAR IS AMAZING.
TO THE FORMER PFR : PLENTY OF PEOPLE SELL ITEMS ON HERE I DIDN'T KNOW THAT YOU WERE THE COLLECTION AGENCY????
TO ROGUE GTS: FIRST YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN MY SYSTEM. SECONDLY, THE CORSA RETAINS THE FACTORY CATALYTIC CONVERTERS MY SYSTEM DOES NOT. AND THE CORSA USES HEAVIER MUFFLERS THAN THE RACE 3.5 MUFFLER THAT I USE. THERES YOUR WEIGHT SAVINGS . TECHNICALLY YOU MUST BE AN IDIOT TO TELL ME MY SYSTEM IS HARDER TO PUT ON OR WEIGHS MORE IF YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN IT. IT IS A "COMPLETE BOLT ON SYSTEM" IT MIGHT JUST BE HARDER FOR YOU TO PUT ON!!!!!!
I AM NOT HERE TO EDUCATE YOU OR HAVE A PETTY ARGUMENT WITH YOU, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT SIMPLY DON'T BUY IT!!!!!!
FOR SUPER CHARGED/TURBO/BIG CUBE CARS LESS BACK PRESSURE MEANS MORE POWER IN THE HIGHER RPM RANGE (AN INSIGHT JUST FOR YOU)
TO CHAD : DON'T YOU RUN A DUAL 3.5 EXHAUST! I RUN A FIVE INCH ON MY SINGLE TURBO! CONGRATS ON THE PERFORMANCE! THE CAR IS AMAZING.
Lose the attitude there fuckmonkey, you picked the wrong guy to call out on tech .
First, compare apples to apples. MANY people run corsas with out cats, so thats a completely moot point.
As for your "race" muffler, have you ever seen or weighed a corsa setup? What is this race muffler, just a basic straight through dynomax, or a real burns style race muffler?
And if you could READ, you would see my first point, WTF is the purpose of a 3.5" exhaust mounted after a 3" collector? There is a very simple theory, the smallest dia creates the most resistance to flow. If the smallest section is at the very front of the exhaust then it doesn't matter if you have a pair of 5" pipes, it's not going to flow any better. Simple, end of story. Until you find a header with a 3.5" collector your shit is completely useless.
For the turbo cars that very well may be great, but who many turbo cars are running a bolt on exhaust system that bolts to the factory location. Not very many, and as you stated most run down pipes bigger than 3.5" anyway, hell PC has dual 5" DP's.
Just so you know, the punk ass attitude has pretty much sealed the deal that nobody will ever buy shit from you. I wasn't trying to start a war, simply asking basic questions which any normal person attempting to sell a product could/would easily answer.
So now I'm not so nice, take your shit and get the fuck out. If YOU want an education on airflow dynamics then you picked the right place.
TO THE FORMER PFR : PLENTY OF PEOPLE SELL ITEMS ON HERE I DIDN'T KNOW THAT YOU WERE THE COLLECTION AGENCY????
TO ROGUE GTS: FIRST YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN MY SYSTEM. SECONDLY, THE CORSA RETAINS THE FACTORY CATALYTIC CONVERTERS MY SYSTEM DOES NOT. AND THE CORSA USES HEAVIER MUFFLERS THAN THE RACE 3.5 MUFFLER THAT I USE. THERES YOUR WEIGHT SAVINGS . TECHNICALLY YOU MUST BE AN IDIOT TO TELL ME MY SYSTEM IS HARDER TO PUT ON OR WEIGHS MORE IF YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN IT. IT IS A "COMPLETE BOLT ON SYSTEM" IT MIGHT JUST BE HARDER FOR YOU TO PUT ON!!!!!!
I AM NOT HERE TO EDUCATE YOU OR HAVE A PETTY ARGUMENT WITH YOU, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT SIMPLY DON'T BUY IT!!!!!!
FOR SUPER CHARGED/TURBO/BIG CUBE CARS LESS BACK PRESSURE MEANS MORE POWER IN THE HIGHER RPM RANGE (AN INSIGHT JUST FOR YOU)
TO CHAD : DON'T YOU RUN A DUAL 3.5 EXHAUST! I RUN A FIVE INCH ON MY SINGLE TURBO! CONGRATS ON THE PERFORMANCE! THE CAR IS AMAZING.
Lose the attitude there fuckmonkey, you picked the wrong guy to call out on tech .
First, compare apples to apples. MANY people run corsas with out cats, so thats a completely moot point.
As for your "race" muffler, have you ever seen or weighed a corsa setup? What is this race muffler, just a basic straight through dynomax, or a real burns style race muffler?
And if you could READ, you would see my first point, WTF is the purpose of a 3.5" exhaust mounted after a 3" collector? There is a very simple theory, the smallest dia creates the most resistance to flow. If the smallest section is at the very front of the exhaust then it doesn't matter if you have a pair of 5" pipes, it's not going to flow any better. Simple, end of story. Until you find a header with a 3.5" collector your shit is completely useless.
For the turbo cars that very well may be great, but who many turbo cars are running a bolt on exhaust system that bolts to the factory location. Not very many, and as you stated most run down pipes bigger than 3.5" anyway, hell PC has dual 5" DP's.
Just so you know, the punk ass attitude has pretty much sealed the deal that nobody will ever buy shit from you. I wasn't trying to start a war, simply asking basic questions which any normal person attempting to sell a product could/would easily answer.
So now I'm not so nice, take your shit and get the fuck out. If YOU want an education on airflow dynamics then you picked the right place.
Lose the attitude there fuckmonkey, you picked the wrong guy to call out on tech .
First, compare apples to apples. MANY people run corsas with out cats, so thats a completely moot point.
As for your "race" muffler, have you ever seen or weighed a corsa setup? What is this race muffler, just a basic straight through dynomax, or a real burns style race muffler?
And if you could READ, you would see my first point, WTF is the purpose of a 3.5" exhaust mounted after a 3" collector? There is a very simple theory, the smallest dia creates the most resistance to flow. If the smallest section is at the very front of the exhaust then it doesn't matter if you have a pair of 5" pipes, it's not going to flow any better. Simple, end of story. Until you find a header with a 3.5" collector your shit is completely useless.
For the turbo cars that very well may be great, but who many turbo cars are running a bolt on exhaust system that bolts to the factory location. Not very many, and as you stated most run down pipes bigger than 3.5" anyway, hell PC has dual 5" DP's.
Just so you know, the punk ass attitude has pretty much sealed the deal that nobody will ever buy shit from you. I wasn't trying to start a war, simply asking basic questions which any normal person attempting to sell a product could/would easily answer.
So now I'm not so nice, take your shit and get the fuck out. If YOU want an education on airflow dynamics then you picked the right place.
If the smallest section is at the very front of the exhaust then it doesn't matter if you have a pair of 5" pipes, it's not going to flow any better. Simple, end of story. Until you find a header with a 3.5" collector your shit is completely useless.
For point of this exhaust system I do not care at all to argue, it doesn't interest me at all... but I did want to argue this point
The length/duration of a restriction is just as important as the size of the restriction. Believe it or not, it makes a huge difference. In an exhaust system its especially easier to demonstrate as the exhaust gases have a lot more velocity as they leave the engine... when you have a greater velocity you have less need for area.
An easy demonstration here would be a turbocharger. Most turbochargers have significantly smaller outlets then you would run for an exhaust pipe. Its very common for the down-pipe on turbocharged car to immediately expand to be larger then the outlet of the turbocharger.
A personal example I ran into last year would be the fuel system I put together on my car. I tried to get away with a -4 return line... and my fuel pressure at idle was spiking as the -4 return line was a greater restriction then my regulator was creating. So then I upgraded to a -6 return line, but I adapted it down to a -4 and kept the -4 bulkhead fitting into my tank and all was well. Or even look at the pinhole outlet that a fuel pressure regulator itself has!
So at any rate, I agree a 3.5 dual is overkill on the viper... but there is always an advantage to removing a restriction, even if you cant get rid of all of it!
The length/duration of a restriction is just as important as the size of the restriction. Believe it or not, it makes a huge difference. In an exhaust system its especially easier to demonstrate as the exhaust gases have a lot more velocity as they leave the engine... when you have a greater velocity you have less need for area.
It could also be said that you run a smaller diameter to increase velocity. Which is very true in an exhaust primary where you have other forces at hand, scavenging from the flow, and so on. But as the gas loses heat energy it also loses velocity and thus you need much less dia to flow a given amount of air. As well having a drastic change in tube dia right at the end of the collector will create such turbulence that IMO it will impede airflow.
Quote:
An easy demonstration here would be a turbocharger. Most turbochargers have significantly smaller outlets then you would run for an exhaust pipe. Its very common for the down-pipe on turbocharged car to immediately expand to be larger then the outlet of the turbocharger.
Yes but in the case of a turbocharger your trying to extract the heat energy from the exhaust. By running a smaller dia (as in the turbine scroll) with a super heated and expanding gas, you then transfer that energy to spin the turbine. This is completely different from what takes place on a N/A or SC motor.
Quote:
A personal example I ran into last year would be the fuel system I put together on my car. I tried to get away with a -4 return line... and my fuel pressure at idle was spiking as the -4 return line was a greater restriction then my regulator was creating. So then I upgraded to a -6 return line, but I adapted it down to a -4 and kept the -4 bulkhead fitting into my tank and all was well. Or even look at the pinhole outlet that a fuel pressure regulator itself has!
Ahh but see you can NOT compare fluid and air flow in an engine. Reason being is that fluid is a constant flow, as well as it has MUCH greater friction inside the tube. Air in an exhaust system is flowing in pulses and pressure waves and thus reacts very differently from a fluid flow. This is also why an X/H pipe in an exhaust system has a real effect on the performance, where in a fluid flow it would do absolutely nothing.
Quote:
So at any rate, I agree a 3.5 dual is overkill on the viper... but there is always an advantage to removing a restriction, even if you cant get rid of all of it!
I agree, and there are some instances where I would run a 3.5" exhaust on a viper. But none of which are what this guy was trying to pull off. I mostly wanted to see if this kid had any idea what he was doing or talking about, and it's very apparent he doesn't. Truth be told I would be that all things being equal, swapping from a 3" to 3 1/2" exhaust would ROB power from the car where you use it most, the area under the curve. Yeah there are some cars it may be useful on, like Manny's 1k hp rocket, but do you think he's using out of the box headers or exhaust? probably not.
It could also be said that you run a smaller diameter to increase velocity. Which is very true in an exhaust primary where you have other forces at hand, scavenging from the flow, and so on. But as the gas loses heat energy it also loses velocity and thus you need much less dia to flow a given amount of air. As well having a drastic change in tube dia right at the end of the collector will create such turbulence that IMO it will impede airflow.
Yes but in the case of a turbocharger your trying to extract the heat energy from the exhaust. By running a smaller dia (as in the turbine scroll) with a super heated and expanding gas, you then transfer that energy to spin the turbine. This is completely different from what takes place on a N/A or SC motor.
Ahh but see you can NOT compare fluid and air flow in an engine. Reason being is that fluid is a constant flow, as well as it has MUCH greater friction inside the tube. Air in an exhaust system is flowing in pulses and pressure waves and thus reacts very differently from a fluid flow. This is also why an X/H pipe in an exhaust system has a real effect on the performance, where in a fluid flow it would do absolutely nothing.
I agree, and there are some instances where I would run a 3.5" exhaust on a viper. But none of which are what this guy was trying to pull off. I mostly wanted to see if this kid had any idea what he was doing or talking about, and it's very apparent he doesn't. Truth be told I would be that all things being equal, swapping from a 3" to 3 1/2" exhaust would ROB power from the car where you use it most, the area under the curve. Yeah there are some cars it may be useful on, like Manny's 1k hp rocket, but do you think he's using out of the box headers or exhaust? probably not.
I digress, this guys an idiot, thats all for now
I knew right from the start Rogue, that you'd fit right in.......
You do have some good points some of which i agree with and some of which i do not or am unsure. to be honest i didnt even expect a reply... but definatly some good points / ideas. A personal friend of mine gained over 20rwhp after upgrading only his catback to dual 3", when his downpipes are 2.5" .. which in turn displays that restriction duration seems important in airflow as well I guess I am used to thinking more in terms of turbocharged cars, and after the turbo I would have to think that any pulses and waves from the exhaust ports have been dampened.
A personal friend of mine gained over 20rwhp after upgrading only his catback to dual 3", when his downpipes are 2.5" ..
If this happend, then chances are his original system was a bottleneck, or something else entirely that i will get to in a second. I think what rouge is trying to get at is that bigger is NOT always better. If the original exhaust is not causing a restriction on airflow, then a larger exhaust will create no significant gains what so ever. This holds true ESPECIALLY in an N/A setup where air velocity, now quantity is king.
Now on a big TT car making 1000, 1500, 2000 hp then 3.5 is probably too small, but on most N/A cars going bigger will probably hurt you. The reason for this is because a N/A motor can only take in so much air, at a given velocity, now if the exhaust is too small you have a bottle neck and the air can't get out fast enough, but if the exhaust is too BIG then yeah it can push more air, but at the same time velocity suffers, you loose TOO MUCH back pressure, and low end grunt suffers because of it. Now, on to your friend you may have gained 20hp, but what does the area under the curve look like? His power and torque at say 2500RPMS? Because you may gain some peak power, but low end torque (the area under the curve) will more than likely suffer. Unless as I said before his original system was a restriction.
And what benefit does it offer over a 3" pipe like the corsas that will obviously weigh even less?
