When you do work for a customer who trusts you to do the right thing and you give them a warrantee period on your work knowing that it is going to another country, then surely you would make sure of your work.
When this car arrived in New Zealand there were problems very early, that also can be expected but when your request for information and support are repeatedly not answered I guess you could get a little frustrated.
Serious sh#*t too, like engine detonation, excess oil burning, turbo failing ,then waiting months for items that you were told were sent that weren't.
When you have paid for a car that dynoed at 1100 fwhp that was supposed to have a box to match,that chucks all its toys out the cot and then you find it was only set up to handle 650 hp maybe then you are justified to getting a little pissed. I could go on and on if you like but hey, go spend your money and find out the hard way.
Still waiting now for parts that were promised. We will get this car right and its great to drive when its going but it will not be through any help or back up by the person who made the promises. Should I keep going? 'cause there was a whole lot more drama with this car before it even got here and since.
Last edited by thinkbig : April 15th, 2008 at 06:41 PM.
Reason: spelling
JT
I was the person that bought your engine.
You were a pleasure to deal with.
I onsold it and it went for its first race a couple of weeks ago with no problems.
Thanks.
We're not short on real accounts that will be of inetrest to people with money to spend and choices where they spend it. All I have done so far is create a context from where I come from and some observations.
The call for Heffner to chime in with his side seems fair but is unlikely to happen because he knows there are enough of us to stick to the cold hard facts and keep redirecting the thread back to him. He has already called Trey and complained about me being mean to him and wants me to settle this quietly in private.
What does he want - a conference call with me and all his dissatisfied customers? Shall I round up a whole bunch of them?
This is no different to what Krazypsi went through when he started dropping some statements that he had issues with Heffner and was taking his business out of there. People took notice because Krazpsi had spent a lot of money there and stayed loyal for 3 years.
Did Heffner come online then and dispute what Krazypsi said?
No.
Why?
Because he knew Krazpsi spoke the truth - there were real problems - end of story.
So what did he do? He did the same thing with Krazypsi he wants to do with me, he doesn't want the spotlight, he wants to make secret deals to keep the peace. Understandable of course, but apologies and private agreements do not undo the past, do not undo the poor work, do not fix the problems that could not be fixed because they were too hard, and do not warn others thinking about pouring in a whole bunch of their cash into likely sharing the same misfortunes if they encounter issues.
Jason - a phone call is too late buddy. You should have cared when it mattered.
I will stick to cold hard facts that directly affect you the potential customer from this point forward. I will relate things I was directly involved with or bring in someone that was to keep within the bounds of fair play.
There are several out there lurking that have had significant issues and whose entire after sales experience is one they do not want to repeat. Krazypsi is one and ThnkBig is another who have spoken. Perhaps others might chime in at some point, though some might be silenced for various reasons.
Funny, I just heard today that some of my bits were on the way. But hang on, they were already sent. Oh now Im confused.
I guess there may be some people out there that have paid good money, got a lemon, don't want to squawk ,cause they don't want to look foolish and in the future may want to sell their lemons to unsuspecting buyers 'cause they don't want to take another hit. Lucky for me the person I bought my car off has integrity and character and is prepared to stand by it personally.
Will do business with that person anytime because his word means something.
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In my experience when we build a motor, "ANY MOTOR" weather its on fuel ref. the Dragster or for the street you :
HAVE ALL THE NECESSARY PARTS FOR THE BUILD TO BEGIN WITH.
EVERYTHING IS LAID OUT AND YOU HAVE A CHECK LIST.
EVERYTHING IS BALANCED AND BLUEPRINTED
EVERYTHING IS CHECKED AND RECHECKED
AND IT DOESE'NT LEAVE THE SHOP TILL ITS RIGHT...PERIOD.
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Well, to do that you would:
a - need a plan and a job sheet. At Heffners Performance in 2004 I can tell you 1st hand that the plan was in Jasons head, and there were no job sheets. Although that was one of the first things I tried to implement. So all you early TT customers (cannot speak for the later ones) paid for work there was no timesheet/job card for.
b - to have everything in advance would require a detailed list of what is needed and ordering it asap after the customer order was confirmed. 1st hand observation of practice when i was there was that many parts were ordered at time of "shit, I need that now". So then there was delay, then another delay as something else forgotten cropped up, etc. See why cars take so long to complete? Jobs were picked up and put down dozens of times because they did not have everything to complete it.
c - to lay everything out would be nice, how about a few cardboard boxes? A checklist? Are you serious? There were no blueprint specs and no checklists.
d - There were no blueprint specs beacuse there were not even the TOOLS TO BLUEPRINT . There was not even a tool to measure to the precision level that basic blueprinting requires. You want your bores tapered and out of round no more than 0.0002" like all good performance engines? Well that was not possible to measure so you got what the machine shop and hand assembly at Heffner Performance gave you. A balance? - well if it got sent out, but blueprint was not even possible let alone done back then.
I cannot speak to the now, for all I know they now outsource their engine builds. If that is true - ask for a build sheet and a specification checklist that gives you what specs were measured against the blueprint. If that cannot be supplied you do not have a blueprinted engine you have an alleged blueprinted engine. I have an alleged 747.
I can say categorically the engine building taking place in my short time at Heffner Performance was nothing more than basic and befitting a Mustang engine with hot up bits added and bolted together. There was no fancy blueprinting to build a better engine because the basic tools to do that did not exist in the shop. Fortunately the factory built you a nice V10 and it can take a few power adders.
The machine shop used back then was nuts. I would not use them to do my lawnmower and I told Jason that to his face. Even on Jasons basic measuring equipment clearances after machining were all over the place. That is past since the move to Florida, but the fact remains that shop kept getting used long after it was obious they were useless.
That tells you all I would need to know about whether I'd want Jason building my engine. A shortcut in one area = potential shortcuts anywhere else - whatever was easiest, not what was best.
My biggest disappointment on being in the workshop was recognizing that the standard of engine work was no better than an average family car auto workshop in New Zealand. It was just the toys were more expensive and made a lot more power.
Let's talk about power:
You have 500 cubic inches. If you force feed it air under pressure through any piece of crap that will hold a seal - it will make power. Understood?
1500+hp out of 500 cubes with over 30lb boost is not much of an achievement. It is basic and any race quality engine builder and turbo system designer could do it easily, and go way beyond that.
The skill is in tuning and driving, that gets you the numbers and Jason was not bad in those departments.
HOWEVER the engine and turbo system design are the foundations. If the foundation is weak - sooner or later you will run into issues that will piss you off at best and kill you at worst.
Personally, I felt that a boosted Viper deserved a great foundation, afterall you are paying for it. That is my opinion. I do not like the weak platforms I have seen. The only saving grace is that the engines are very strong, but they are not unbreakable.
My philosophy was do it right once and do it the best that the customer can afford. And if there are problems after running the best parts and doing your absolute best to do a great job, then fix it pronto, get help if it is beyond you, but take responsibility and don't let the car sit around for months scratching your ass.
The philsophy I found on arriving was near enough is good enough, whatever is easy and cheap that will do the job, then tune it and drive it to get the results. Presentation was great, customer was happy....
at first - until issues started
which foundation would you want your car built around after spending good money?
Both get a result, look similar from where the customer is sitting, but one has more integrity and will lead to longer term customer satisfaction plus will go better as well.
From your side of the story, sorry to hear about your experiences. I am glad that you are now back on your feet.
The performance industry is a tough business. I have lived in Houston, TX for 18+ years and have seen many shops come and go and have actually witness a few shady operations and have heard of a lot more. It doesn't matter if the shop is big tme or small.
For me, I grew up poor and did not have the luxury to pay for a mechanic's service so I had to learn to fix everything myself from doing a simple oil change to rebuilding a motor. For the shirt and tie customer who doesn't know a wrench from a socket, they are at the mercy of the tuner. The best advice that I can give is if you are unsure of the tuner then get something that is bolt on like a header, exhaust, a basic basic turbo system, etc. Once you start messing with the foundation of the car "the engine" then prepare to bend over.
Again, I am glad that you are back on your feet. Tommorrw is even a better day.
Ok, I admit...it a was a Freudian slip. You see, I was out west one time WAY up in the Rockies, and I shot this big ass deer across a canyon. He was WAY out there, and the wind was up too. Well, I shot him off-hand, as I'm accustomed to doing. Well, I shouldn't have done it that time, because I shot the damn thing in the gut and when I hiked over there to admire my deer there was SAGEBRUSH all over the place. That what they eat up where there's nothing but sagebrush to munch on. It was the nastiest, stinkiest mess I've ever cleaned I tell ya'. I looked like Rafterman from Full Metal Jacket in the helicopter scene. No shit.
When you have paid for a car that dynoed at 1100 fwhp that was supposed to have a box to match,that chucks all its toys out the cot and then you find it was only set up to handle 650 hp maybe then you are justified to getting a little pissed.
Dude, I think that if you paid for 1100 FWhp on a Viper.... You may have just been fucked over by both your expectations and Heffner. Just a thought
-Tim
You could be right,
However, once bitten twice shy.
I guess though the prey will be unsuspecting ford and chevy owners as any viper owner, unless they are walking brain donors, won't go there.
Just a thought.
