I am thinking of sending my TT to someone I can depend on. Yes I own a viper and it was built by JH but I am wanting a different tuner that I trust to do some upgrades. I like to know about a persons character before I spend big bucks with them.
I'm not trying to stir up any shit I just would like to hear from Jason about what "I" think are the most important issues in this thread
It is really, really simple then.
Call Heffner Performance and ask for Jason. Schedule a meeting with him and go over what your concerns are and what you would like to do with your car.
Ask for references and perhaps ask to see some of the qualifications of his staff and even himself.
It may be simple for you but in reality any business owner can make themselves sound like the perfect tuner over the phone or through email. I like to hear from all sorts of different people about a tuner, good or bad, before I make the decision for myself. Will this thread be my only source of info, NO. But it IS a source of info about a side of a tuner that you would not get over the phoneor through email speaking directly to the tuner. I will call Jason if after my research I feel he is the one tuner I choose to pursue.
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Call Heffner Performance and ask for Jason. Schedule a meeting with him and go over what your concerns are and what you would like to do with your car.
Ask for references and perhaps ask to see some of the qualifications of his staff and even himself.
Precisely. If that's not good enough for you, find another tuner you gives you that oh-so-special warm fuzzy feeling. There are plenty of great ones around and they ALL have happy and unhappy customers ready to give advice.
You really think Jason coming in here giving his side is going to simplify this for you?
Really???
I would think the complete opposite would be expected. I am sure Jason would come in and give his side, which would likely differ from Torquemonster's. Then Torquemonster and the engineer would dispute that.
All the people who are friends with Torquemonster and the engineer would go rah rah siss boom bah for them, all the ones that like Heffner would throw up their pom poms for Heffner, and all the shit disturbers (most people on this thread) would throw out little jabs here and there trying to keep the shit going.
You have heard the bad news, which includes an engineer from New Zealand ditching his job driving trains in his homeland for a shitty basement apartment in America complete with plumbing pipes running through his kitchenette.
If you choose to believe that at face value, then do not pursue a relationship with Heffner. I don't speak for him but I would imagine any tuner wouldn't want a customer that is going to believe a story like that anyways because they are already starting on a bad note.
However, if you are true to your post that you just want more information, then I personally would check out the lamborghini site and seek out the Heffner twin turbo'd car owners, same with the Ford GT guys. Ask them what they think. Also ask Heffner for qualifications of him and his staff.
Do yourself a favor and seek the same with Underground and the other tuners, because you are talking about a big ticket complicated item and surely you would want to make sure you are making the best choice. Yes, that includes what you read on viperalley, but whether Jason gets into the shit slinging bullshit here or not, there will be nothing else said that would clarify the entire situation for any intelligent person.
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My name is Mark Anderson. My background is in engineering. I’ve been watching and decided to clear a few things up. I too travelled to the other side of the world based upon promises made by Jason Heffner. I agreed to come to Heffner Performance to work with Jason and Barry (Torquemonster) and assist them to take the business from a small workshop to a much larger enterprise over a period of time.
What were you told your job was going to be doing at Jasons shop? You say your background is "engineering" - what is your degree in and from where? What was your job prior to coming to Heffners? I did some digging and I know the answers to these questions, but perhaps you will have a spark of honesty and let everyone else know too - so we can all have a good laugh about your "engineering" background and your vast experience in working on cars.
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To do this, like Torquemonster, I was willing to take a backwards step from where I was for a period so that we could all help build something significant and worthwhile together doing something we were all passionate about.
Backwards step? So working in the USA building high-performance cars is a step backwards from fixing machines at a fucking peanut factory? LOL Were you as passionate about peanut machines as you were about race cars?
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I arrived a week before Torquemonster and his family to find that rather than having a temp place to stay in so I could look at accommodation. I was taken to a basement apartment where all the plumbing and air con for the floors above came through the room. This noise made sleep impossible without ear muffs. I’m no prima donna, so this would have been ok as a temp arrangement, but Jason then told me that he had told the landlord (a lie) that he’d just gotten divorced and needed the apartment for himself. He had signed up for a 1 year lease without consulting me. That caused friction when I told him I couldn’t handle that for a year.
In the USA you generally either get a hotel, or if you want an apartment you have to lease it - usually for a year. Sounds to me like you wanted something real nice - maybe you should have gone online and found something yourself rather than sticking that job to your new boss. It sounds pretty overblown to say you can't sleep without earmuffs - come on - you sure are acting like a primadonna. Why did you ask Jason to make these arrangements instead of putting it in your own name? Why put him in the position of having to find an employee a place to stay?
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A green card was also one of the issues before I agreed to come over. While TM could get one as a formality, it was not so easy for me. Jason promised before I left to help me with this, but when I got there I was told I was on my own.
TM said previously that this was his domain. How could Jason help you with a green card? He can't. That's on you and you are lying if you want to say that it's any of Jason's responsibility. If TM told you Jason could help with it, then your friend lied to you. Gee whoda thunk it?
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The workshop had no working area for me. Therefore I cleared some working space and promptly got into trouble because I had moved some stuff that was in private storage away from the work area. I had also advised before I left that until my work visa arrived I would not be allowed to bring my tools over to the USA, and was told no problem that there was enough in the shop. When I got there I was told in no uncertain terms Jasons tool box was off limits, and the boys there, John and TJ had spent large sums of money out of their personal incomes for their own, making me feel bad having to ask them to use theirs. When we needed tools we did not have, Jason expected me to go next door to another business to people I had not been introduced to, and ask to borrow theirs. Any tradesman knows how personal tools are regarded, this I saw as a very unreasonable request to a stranger.
Oh cry me a river. If you needed tools why not go buy some? Sears has a great set for $500 that has most of what you could ever need. It's standard fare that mechanics use their own tools. That's how it has ALWAYS been done. How could someone with as much experience as you not know that? If you weren't able to bring your own tools because you were working illegally under a non-work visa, then it seems that your responsibility would be to get tools. Did Jason distress you by also not wiping your ass after you took a dump and cutting up your steak for you before you ate it?
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My background includes skills/knowledge in peanuts, peanut machine and production processes, and general peanut engineering. I had also been building [b]peanuts[b] and racing peanuts (I had peanutsmyself from the ground up) for over 20 years.
There, I fixed it for you.
Hey, I wonder how come with alllll that experience building cars and engines and racing and such - how come you couldn't weld some bits of metal together? How come with all that motor building experience you don't know that you need to clean assembly lube off before putting a motor together? You didn't *gasp* embellish and bullshit about your experience and qualifications did you? Maybe building race cars was what you *wanted* to do more than what you *did* do eh?
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· The turbo car exhaust manifolds at that time were not headers, but a short fabricated combination of SS304 pipe that required multiple welds and cuts. The standard of welding by Brian was quite good on the outside, but the inside was not cleaned up and this would have created hot spots and significant flow restrictions. The amount of welding required and expansion and contraction involved would lead to inevitable cracking at some point. The design broke the engineering “minimum damage rule” for working with stainless steel. i.e. you take the product from the factory and do the very least amount of damage to it to create the best result. The more you work SS the worse it gets.
How would you know anything about welding considering you were unable to even weld a part without it being scrapped? How come you're able to comment on Jason's engineering ability and give advice on how to build headers when you can't do it yourself? How come you are qualified to make such determinations when your experience is in fixing peanut machines?
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· I talked with Jason about ways to make them better as Jason was not open to changing his design, so we focused on how make that design in a “minimum damage” way which would have involved pressing instead of cutting and multiple welding. I do not know if this was ever done after I left.
I'd probably have given you lip service too. I'll bet Jason just wanted you to STFU and actually make some parts, rather than bring your vast peanut machine engineering experience (and lack of ability to weld or assemble and engine) to bear on his successful business enterprise.
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· This also did not make it a welcoming proposition to teach him much of anything, but I persisted in my own gentle way, as I had come a long way to be there and to help, and he needed it.
He needed the help? What, by YOUR definition? You are a guy who didn't even know that assembly lube needs cleaned off before you put a motor together. You don't know to even weld anything. You fix peanut machines for a living. You didn't even have any tools. And you wanted to teach the guys at Heffners about how to build engines and in YOUR "professional" opinion they were not doing it well? That must be why so many of Jasons cars blew up... oh wait.... they didn't, Maybe thats why Doug has a line of TT-G's at his shop being fixed. OH, wait, that turned out to be a lie too. You got ZERO credibility. Fact is you left because you couldn't produce jack shit and wanted to scurry back home to mommy. And that's not just an insult - it's the truth.
· There was heaps of room for improvement in many other areas, but this is typical for any young and growing workshop so I’m not going to be nit picky.
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· When it came to building a performance engine Jason did not have a clue. This is a fact that comes from over 20 years of building high powered engines both naturally aspirated and boosted engines, and being around some of the best race engine builders there are and being intimate with how it is done. Jason lacked the rudimentary skills to do much more than bolt together what parts he was given and trust that the parts were machined correctly. His idea of blueprinting seemed to be “as long as the pistons are the same weight”. He had no real engine building equipment at that time other than a valve spring compressor and a digital vernier. He relied on the integrity of what he had to work with… a dangerous game.
You fix peanut machines. You don't even know how to weld. You don't even know to clean off parts before putting an engine together. And you claim "20 years experience building high powered engines". Huge BS sirens going off here folks.
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· By the time Barry (Torquemonster) arrived a week after me, I was pretty disillusioned. The vision Torquemonster had developed and run past several very knowledgeable people was exciting, and in my mind very do-able. But there was no way Jason still in his 20’s was mature enough to allow, let alone make it happen. I lost confidence in Jason and decided to leave. I felt for Barry and simply hoped he could pull something out of the hat with Jason, but my observations before leaving was that Barry was given no opportunity to manage anything. As a result, from the time he got there, all he could do to contribute was take a load off Jason and provide ideas. It was a raw deal for us all. That is life, we’ve both moved on.
Wow... so after just ONE WEEK there you had decided to leave? Yep, sounds like you really gave it a fair shot. Maybe the fact that you didn't have any tools, didn't have any knowledge, didn't have any ability to produce parts and had obviously BSed about the level of knowledge you posessed had somethign to do with it? I don't doubt you may be a nice guy, but you are acting like a real asshole by playing into your buddy Barry's game of trying to take shots at Heffner. You provided a lot less than half the real story. THere was a major disconnect for sure in what you thought you were getting into vs. what Jason thought, I am sure. Maybe that was partly Barrys' fault - maybe he sold you a bill of goods like he did to Heffner which also turned out to be false. But for you to come on here and try to hurt Jason's business based on your inflated claims about your ability and experience is contemptible.
When I did my digging I foudn the truth. You were a guy who fixed peanut machines for a living, had no tools, couldn't weld, couldn't build engines, was depressed being away from mommy, and just wanted to go home. That's the bottom line, asshole.
I agree and I have been to those sites and am impressed with the results acheived. I was just hoping that for once we could have a civilized discussion of what really happened without all the shit slinging in the middle, but as you stated that probably would never happen. So it is probably best that Jason stay out of it and I will continue my research elsewhere. Thanks
I was just hoping that for once we could have a civilized discussion of what really happened without all the shit slinging in the middle
Really contradicts the statement you made on page 3 of this very same thread:
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Originally Posted by Her Dragon
Someone call TM and have him post the story already...I need more entertainment
Hey man, we all love the drama - no doubt about it. But let's be honest about that fact, and not cloak it as some 'earnest' attempt to get to know a tuner.
Hey who doesnt love drama...to be honest as u put it I started off thinking this was just another BS thread to bash a tuner...hence the Entertainment comment. After the story I wanted to see if any of it was true...hence the request of Jason to tell his side. Please understand I do want to get both sides to every story...especially when it deals with bashing a tuner. And just for your info It is an earnest attempt to learn about a tuner.
I agree and I have been to those sites and am impressed with the results acheived. I was just hoping that for once we could have a civilized discussion of what really happened without all the shit slinging in the middle, but as you stated that probably would never happen. So it is probably best that Jason stay out of it and I will continue my research elsewhere. Thanks
Being (slightly more) serious for a moment, why should we have a civilized discussion about what "really happened"? It's all he-said/she-said. Barry and Mark both claim Heffs shop was an arena of bumbling fools who couldn't do anything right - put parts in backwards, damaged cars, etc etc. Of course Jason would say otherwise - so how can we know the truth? Well... how many of Jasons cars have been blowing up? Answer - I don't know of any. I don't know of any unbiased customers who claim to be unhappy. So it takes away credibility from the claims made.
On the personal issues - they aren't really relevant to Jason't ability to build cars. But if you think they speak to his character, then read what I've posted. How can TM be considered to have a good character to where we ought to believe him about Jason's business? And this Mark guy was there for a week before deciding to leave and wasn't even employed in anything related to cars until coming to Jason's shop - and he's an expert?
So what is more likely - that what TM and Mark say is true, or that TM oversold his and Mark's ability to perform, and upon it being discovered that they were unable to perform, they left with a bitter taste over it. Why on earth would they come back 3 YEARS later to tell the story? Ask yourself that - what agendas are there that 3 years later they want to tell their stories? Stories that can't be substantiated and are all just claims and unproveable assertions anyway?
Then keep in mind that Jason has a business and family and these guys are trying to affect that for purposes of retaliation. And they should be taken seriously???
No way. IMO Jason did the right thing by staying out of it.
It may be simple for you but in reality any business owner can make themselves sound like the perfect tuner over the phone or through email. I like to hear from all sorts of different people about a tuner, good or bad, before I make the decision for myself. Will this thread be my only source of info, NO. But it IS a source of info about a side of a tuner that you would not get over the phoneor through email speaking directly to the tuner. I will call Jason if after my research I feel he is the one tuner I choose to pursue.
It's hard to believe you're really serious about all this - but if you are, then do some searches on this site and others on his name. Then talk to people who have actually had work done by him give you their opinion. And take all those opinions with a grain of salt because in every case you're getting 1 side of the story.
The best source of all would be to call Jason and air your concerns to him and see what he has to say about it.
Mike I agree with your destruction of both TQ and Marks posts by using logic. I dont question Jasons ability to build cars, I merely want to know from Jason how he felt things went when they got to his shop. According to TQ and Mark they felt they were treated poorly, I was just curious on the other side. Did Jason feel he was over accomadating or does he think he was harsh due to the fact that he didnt get what he thought he would in a potential partner. Again this is just my personal curiosity. From my research I have no belief that Jason is a sub par car builder at all.
