I don't believe Kevin has anything to say to this. Dell is about as creative telling stories as Walt Disney was.
Lol! That's the best you can come up with? I just made it up? While I'm trying to leave the engine builder out of it (as they don't diserve the distraction) why doesn't someone call and try to have some viper engine work done.
Your best position is to defend Kevin by denial? LOL!
Hey Josh - Post us your #'s on that car you just got back! We are all dying to here some fresh "stock heads + blower + water/meth" numbers!
As we went through in the post where you got your whimpy ass owned, you called Greg fishing for info on my motor and when Greg told you that I had the motor apart, you cried like a baby to Kevin.
retail = 100% markup. ripoff = more. the #'s don't lie. Take a look at the build sheets. I didn't make those up!
As for making a living, I'm sure UGR is doing just fine and the loss of business from me not having my motor run through them isn't hurting anyone.
The work I am having done is strictly a (boring) cylinder boring process. I do the rest myself. $10/ cylinder most places. That might be major for a guy who doesn't change his own oil but since I brought the block there myself, it really isn't a big deal.
So where are those dyno #'s, big dog??
I GOT OWNED JOE? Your pussy ass put me on ignore in the ultimate display of homosexuality because you couldn't stand the deep throating you were getting over "there". Now that I'm OFF ignore it just shows me once more how much of a wimp you truely are. I would have respected you more staying true to your word by keeping me on the ignore. Since you didn't I am going to have fun with you. So JD, answer my questions above. HOW DID I KNOW YOU HAD A MOTOR AT PROLINE? Supposedly I complained to Kevin??? You sure about that
I can understand why you are sad, but I am not sure why you fail to understand what is going on and feel the need to flame a tuner for practicing perfectly acceptable business practices, such as protecting their R&D.
Put it in perspective. Pretend you were UGR, and you walked into a machine shop and started doing tons of business with them in a rare application. In cooperation with this machine shop, you create world records and learn many things about the nature of the beast. You develop a refined and consistent solution for your customers.
Now, some DIY backyard fool who dropped 40 grand for a used Viper and thinks he can build a 1500hp street machine for 25 grand walks in to the machine shop and he wants the UGR package for the UGR cost. Uhh, no… that’s not going to happen. If I were UGR, I wouldn’t even want them to simply clean your block or even give you advice. Why? Because 3 months later when your melt your block into a doorstop attempting a record, you’re gonna go running your mouth about who touched your block or gave you advice and start pointing fingers at why your hoopie just melted.
Also, you are a complete ass for trying to expose a tuner’s markup on a product. There is always more than meets the eyes, and it’s most likely that you have no idea what you are talking about. Even if you are accurate, it’s still retarded and crybaby of you. If you cannot afford a UGR build, find your own machine shop and move on.
Besides, if you just want basic machining... whats the big deal? Take it to carquest.
Perfectly put. My thoughts exactly. If everyone can build there own car then they should do that but since UGR, HEFFNER, DOUG LEVINS, just to name a few, are in the business to take care of those who can not do it themselves. Your paying for a service and there KNOWLEDGE. To come on here and say that they are ripping people off for charging them $15,000 for an engine build when it only cost you $3000 is Bullshit. I get anywhere from $7,000-$10,000 to build a 4 cylinder motorcycle engine. Hell, I have over $5,000 just in parts on a basic build. I have no problem with my customers paying because they know that they are getting what they paid for, which is reliable and proven h.p. and this is what you get when you use a reputable builder such as UGR, HEFFNER etc. They have proven to be the best at what they do and thats what you are paying for. You are paying them for there "KNOWLEDGE", not a bore job.
You know Joe after all the underhanded crap you have pulled on Underground in the past year, I'm surprised Kevin didn't take a shit in each one of your ten cylinders when he saw your motor at Proline. You've been acting like a real nut job lately. I'm embarrassed for you.
The way it sound to me is UGR dictated to Proline that the only Viper engines that can be built in Proline's shop is the ones UGR delivers to them. No other outside work. If this is the case, UGR is dictating to Proline who they can accept as customers. That said, if true, is complete BS.
If UGR didnt have an exclusive deal with that machine shop... next thing you know, every asswipe that knows which machinist UGR uses is gonna go get their longblock sorted there and bypass UGR to save money, then take it to UGR and ask them to install and tune it.
to talk shit about UGRs markup is rediculous. if you expect them to do the job right, if you expect them to stand behind the work and help you if something goes wrong... you sure as hell better make them some money.... its like paying an insurance premium. if you cant pay, dont fuckin play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunk
I can understand why you are sad, but I am not sure why you fail to understand what is going on and feel the need to flame a tuner for practicing perfectly acceptable business practices, such as protecting their R&D.
Put it in perspective. Pretend you were UGR, and you walked into a machine shop and started doing tons of business with them in a rare application. In cooperation with this machine shop, you create world records and learn many things about the nature of the beast. You develop a refined and consistent solution for your customers.
Now, some DIY backyard fool who dropped 40 grand for a used Viper and thinks he can build a 1500hp street machine for 25 grand walks in to the machine shop and he wants the UGR package for the UGR cost. Uhh, no… that’s not going to happen. If I were UGR, I wouldn’t even want them to simply clean your block or even give you advice. Why? Because 3 months later when your melt your block into a doorstop attempting a record, you’re gonna go running your mouth about who touched your block or gave you advice and start pointing fingers at why your hoopie just melted.
Also, you are a complete ass for trying to expose a tuner’s markup on a product. There is always more than meets the eyes, and it’s most likely that you have no idea what you are talking about. Even if you are accurate, it’s still retarded and crybaby of you. If you cannot afford a UGR build, find your own machine shop and move on.
Besides, if you just want basic machining... whats the big deal? Take it to carquest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIPERRACING
Perfectly put. My thoughts exactly. If everyone can build there own car then they should do that but since UGR, HEFFNER, DOUG LEVINS, just to name a few, are in the business to take care of those who can not do it themselves. Your paying for a service and there KNOWLEDGE. To come on here and say that they are ripping people off for charging them $15,000 for an engine build when it only cost you $3000 is Bullshit. I get anywhere from $7,000-$10,000 to build a 4 cylinder motorcycle engine. Hell, I have over $5,000 just in parts on a basic build. I have no problem with my customers paying because they know that they are getting what they paid for, which is reliable and proven h.p. and this is what you get when you use a reputable builder such as UGR, HEFFNER etc. They have proven to be the best at what they do and thats what you are paying for. You are paying them for there "KNOWLEDGE", not a bore job.
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10.40/ 1.65 60' time on Pirelli Street tires
I was told you and the "other" person aka Tony A. were the ones that brought it there in an effort to be a weasel cockbag and circumvent Kevins exclusivity with Proline.
Whoever told you that was wrong. And I don't appreciate you dragging me into this Josh. If you want to know the truth then you need to call me and until then keep me the hell out of your posts. And if you are including me in your name calling......you might want to "not" call.
Last edited by 1TONY1 : January 10th, 2008 at 10:17 PM.
If UGR didnt have an exclusive deal with that machine shop... next thing you know, every asswipe that knows which machinist UGR uses is gonna go get their longblock sorted there and bypass UGR to save money, then take it to UGR and ask them to install and tune it.
to talk shit about UGRs markup is rediculous. if you expect them to do the job right, if you expect them to stand behind the work and help you if something goes wrong... you sure as hell better make them some money.... its like paying an insurance premium. if you cant pay, dont fuckin play.
I'm not to dignify this rant of an unstable personality with a lengthy response but I will put some key facts out there. Yes I have an exclusive deal with Pro-line to build Viper engines. This deal allows Tony Armour to have his personal engines built there now and in the future and all others have to go through Underground. Tony, 99RT/10 and i think Plumbcrazy have motors being finished there as we speak and that's fine with me. Did I decline to allow Joe Dell to have his motor excepted under the agreement, absolutely yes.
Joe Dell was part of the campaign to smear Underground last year with the information dug up about high school court records and has made numerous unsupported accusations regarding Underground records and dyno sheets. I'm expected to except him into my agreement? Not going to happen.
Regarding his bogus accusations about Proline costs and my pricing. To give you an example, my cost to build Walt's motor "short block" no heads was $12,000. I have never charged someone $15,000 for a Proline "short block only build", ever. Joe has had a grudge against Underground ever since I declined to help him with his tune last year. The fact that his motor is again hurt and out of his car would indicate he needed it. I wanted nothing to do with his project.
The only thing that's going on here is competition, clean and above board. Phunk hit it pretty close in his post. I don't want anything to do with Joe Dell because of his erratic behavior and haven't for quite some time and he knows this.
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*Home of the Fastest Twin Turbo IRS Viper <6 speed>!! 7.98 @ 183 STREET CAR!!
*Home of the 2nd Fastest 6 speed Viper 8.55 @ 174
*Home of the Fastest Supercharged Viper!! 9.20
*First 6 speed Viper in the 170's and FIRST Viper in the 180's auto or 6 speed!!
First Viper in the 9's with REGULAR street tires! 9.88 @ 158
Home of the fastest 1/4 Twin Turbo Gallardo 6 speed on REGULAR STREET TIRES 9.9@158 and 10.1@161
Whoever told you that was wrong. And I don't appreciate you dragging me into this Josh. If you want to know the truth then you need to call me and until then keep me the hell out of your posts. And if you are including me in your name calling......you might want to "not" call.
Tony, I will take you up on that tomorrow. Like I said before this is what was told to me. You are the person JID was talking about were you not?
Last edited by v10kingsnake : January 10th, 2008 at 10:31 PM.
Reason: removed Tonys phone number
Let me begin with this, I have used UGR now for 2 years and have been NOTHING but extremely well taken care of in EVERY SINGLE DEALING WITH THEM!!!. First of all, how does this invoice compare with the supposed $15K build that UGR does???? let me tell you it DOESN'T. Where did you come up with the $15K anyway?????? I read the invoice several times and can point out thousands of dollars worth of items left off their typical build sheet. (And FWIW I have seen their actual invoices on their 522" and 530" motor builds) there isn't enough mark up IMO considering they warranty their builds!!This comparo is like comparing a hunderd to a one dollar bill....... the comparison stops at them both being currency I guess this post pisses me off most because I'm very familiar with UGR's quality and desire to provide industry leading builds for customers with uncompromised focus on perfection. UGR stands behind ALL their suggested builds and furthermore warranties them if there's a problem!!!!! I speak first hand when I say Kevin has went way above and beyond to help me and others with their cars. I'm embarassed to even say how much time Kevin has devoted to one of my cars that had issues prior to him working on it I can honestly say *AS FACT* that UGR has no less than 45 hours of work on my car sorting out issues that had NOTHING to do with them! Would anyone care to guess how much they charged me for this time???? NOT A DAMN DIME!!!!!!!
Did they do this because they owe me??? NO!!! They did it because their reputation and customer satisfaction is SECOND TO NOTHING P E R I O D!!!
Now I don't know why this post was even made except for someone to cry but this stab at a company that has done more for the Viper community than any other company I can think of is total BS!
You ever hear of...... YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR??? WELL, I FOR ONE DON'T THINK I COULD EVEN AFFORD TO REPAY KEVIN AND THE CREW FOR ALL THE HELP THEY HAVE GIVEN ME!!!!!! I'M SURE THEY HAVE HUNDREDS OF OTHERS THAT FEEL THE SAME AS WELL SO WHAT IF THEY MAKE A FEW DOLLARS ON A BUILD??? THEY STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCTS/BUILDS WITH (IN MY OPINION) THE BEST WARRANTY, BEST CUSTOMER SATISFACTION, AND MOST INNOVATIVE CREATIONS IN THE INDUSTRY I HOPE THEY DO MAKE SOME MONEY SO THEY CAN CONTINUE PROVIDING WHAT SO FEW OTHERS CAN
I can honestly say *AS FACT* that UGR has no less than 45 hours of work on my car sorting out issues that had NOTHING to do with them! Would anyone care to guess how much they charged me for this time???? NOT A DAMN DIME!!!!!!!
SO WHAT IF THEY MAKE A FEW DOLLARS ON A BUILD??? THEY STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCTS/BUILDS WITH (IN MY OPINION) THE BEST WARRANTY, BEST CUSTOMER SATISFACTION, AND MOST INNOVATIVE CREATIONS IN THE INDUSTRY
I HOPE THEY DO MAKE SOME MONEY SO THEY CAN CONTINUE PROVIDING WHAT SO FEW OTHERS CAN
