The correct fix for your issue would be a flow control valve on the feed side of the cartridge(s)...the .065 is not enough of a restriction.
Been there......
Hey thanks for the advice. Glad to know im not the only one with issues using .065. I have a lever valve. Would that work? Maybe work better then an orfice since the pressure can be adjustable. I wonder how it handles debris. Hopefully better then an orfice hole restrictor?
Nope..gonna need a true hydraulic flow control unit.....Parker makes the ones I have used...advise u to filter well before the valve and know that the valves don't last forever.
Okay that makes some sense however I don't think it applies to me.
On My setup my oil lines are actually below the turbos. they are mounted low in the frame rails and they climb back up to the turbo. So I should'nt have to worry about putting a check valve in.
If I do notice any oil pooling after I get the right restrictor I'll go ahead and put those check valves in. Thanks for the help.
You continue to impress me with your ability to "school" people who have already solved your problem. Oil is a fluid, and even though in your setup it is in a hose that goes down and back up, at the end of the hose the oil level will match the level of the oil at the feed side, which is height of the oil in the oil galleys in the motor. You can test this with a piece of clear hose filled with water if you don't believe me. I usually refrain from bashing people in general, but in your case I've made an exception and highlighted an important section of your post in red.
You continue to impress me with your ability to "school" people who have already solved your problem. Oil is a fluid, and even though in your setup it is in a hose that goes down and back up, at the end of the hose the oil level will match the level of the oil at the feed side, which is height of the oil in the oil galleys in the motor. You can test this with a piece of clear hose filled with water if you don't believe me. I usually refrain from bashing people in general, but in your case I've made an exception and highlighted an important section of your post in red.
-Dave
I see your point now. You do make some solid points. However im looking at the bigger picture of my project here, im tackling one problem at a time starting with the biggest issue which would be too much oil feed pressure.
I do have a large -10 an oil drain line which probably has more inner volume than the feed lines. So all left over oil on the feed lines will drain into the large -10 an drain line before it ever fills up into the turbo. I can see how -8 an lines drain lines would be a problem. Keep in mind this is just my initial speculation I haven't busted out a calculator and measured it. Im not too concerned about this issue yet.
And to really drive my point home, I've always let the electric oil pumps run for 20 seconds after engine shutoff to make sure there is no oil building up into the drain lines and turbo. So this process would eliminate any reason for oil buildup into the turbos.
Im not trying to school anybody or be defensive, Im just stating my process and let other people share their process and results. This is a good tech thread for future viperalley lurkers..
So I got a .035 restrictor. I put that in to replace the .065 restrictor right at the Tee fitting of the oil pressure sensor sender unit.
Tested the car out with oil drain lines disconnected free flowing into a bucket. NO oil smoking out of the turbos and no oil bleeding!!! woohoo. The oil pressure guage after the resrictor displayed 20 psi on a cold engine and on a warm engine it went down to 12 psi of oil pressure. Each turbo pumped out 1/2 liter in 1 minute. I figure that should be good enough for idle since maximum boost stated a minimum of 6 psi at idle. Now I have to test it out at higher rpms and check out the oil pressure
So 1 problem is gone but I still have another issue. When hooking up the oil return pumps I get a little bit of oil bleeding out of the turbine still while engine is running. Not as much as with the .065 restrictor but there is still little bit. The oil return pumps aren't doing 100 percent exactly of what I want it to do.
Im finally going to give in to Dan's auto suggestions and apply a 1 way check valve right after the oil drain flange. I see mcmaster has a .3 psi minumum pressure for 1 way valve to open, . I am hoping that .3 psi doesn't cause issues with backing up oil into the turbo. Main reason why i never wanted to use a 1 way check valve after the turbo in the first place. But since the oil return pumps aren't doing what i wanted it to, I am going to give it a try. While im at it I will put a check valve before turbo feed flange as well.
This kid has done a lot of things that (for very good reason) were never done before, but that sure hasn't stopped his attempts at epic failure.
If genius here had any idea about fluids, he would have known to run two restrictors and place them right at the feed hole in the turbine center section.
This kid has done a lot of things that (for very good reason) were never done before, but that sure hasn't stopped his attempts at epic failure.
If genius here had any idea about fluids, he would have known to run two restrictors and place them right at the feed hole in the turbine center section.
? How do you do that. Also then when the hole gets plugged you have to pull the turbos to clean out the restritor? The best way (they way everyone else does it) is to restrict right before the turbo.
So I got a .035 restrictor. I put that in to replace the .065 restrictor right at the Tee fitting of the oil pressure sensor sender unit.
Tested the car out with oil drain lines disconnected free flowing into a bucket. NO oil smoking out of the turbos and no oil bleeding!!! woohoo. The oil pressure guage after the resrictor displayed 20 psi on a cold engine and on a warm engine it went down to 12 psi of oil pressure. Each turbo pumped out 1/2 liter in 1 minute. I figure that should be good enough for idle since maximum boost stated a minimum of 6 psi at idle. Now I have to test it out at higher rpms and check out the oil pressure
So 1 problem is gone but I still have another issue. When hooking up the oil return pumps I get a little bit of oil bleeding out of the turbine still while engine is running. Not as much as with the .065 restrictor but there is still little bit. The oil return pumps aren't doing 100 percent exactly of what I want it to do.
Im finally going to give in to Dan's auto suggestions and apply a 1 way check valve right after the oil drain flange. I see mcmaster has a .3 psi minumum pressure for 1 way valve to open, . I am hoping that .3 psi doesn't cause issues with backing up oil into the turbo. Main reason why i never wanted to use a 1 way check valve after the turbo in the first place. But since the oil return pumps aren't doing what i wanted it to, I am going to give it a try. While im at it I will put a check valve before turbo feed flange as well.
So progress is getting better for me.
You need to make little baffled, vented, oil pans and pump out of them as I suggested several times. The problem your are now describing has nothing to do with the check valves, that is something I already explained to you but you still don't understand.
You need to make little baffled, vented, oil pans and pump out of them as I suggested several times. The problem your are now describing has nothing to do with the check valves, that is something I already explained to you but you still don't understand.
kisses,
Dave.
I know what you are suggesting, but I am pretty sure the SURFLO pumps are vented and self priming. I did not need a reservoir (I did not want anything below the frame rails) and talked with some fluid engineers at sureflo.
? How do you do that. Also then when the hole gets plugged you have to pull the turbos to clean out the restritor? The best way (they way everyone else does it) is to restrict right before the turbo.
I think we are talking about the same thing... putting the restrictor right at the fitting where the oil feed hooks to the turbo. Just different verbiage.
I know what you are suggesting, but I am pretty sure the SURFLO pumps are vented and self priming. I did not need a reservoir (I did not want anything below the frame rails) and talked with some fluid engineers at sureflo.
From what I can see, his issue is that the pump pickup is almost level with the turbo drain, so even with a self priming pump, it needs to fill that drain tube and will somewhat back-up into the turbo due to the horrid design.
The whole thing is a clusterfuck and he isn't even willing to listen when people tell him the correct, proven way to do things.
I say fuck it, doesn't matter either way. My bet is he will cut one of those puny lines and seize the motor anyway. It is quite impressive, he has managed to cover just about every aspect of what you don't want to do.
From what I can see, his issue is that the pump pickup is almost level with the turbo drain, so even with a self priming pump, it needs to fill that drain tube and will somewhat back-up into the turbo due to the horrid design.
The whole thing is a clusterfuck and he isn't even willing to listen when people tell him the correct, proven way to do things.
I say fuck it, doesn't matter either way. My bet is he will cut one of those puny lines and seize the motor anyway. It is quite impressive, he has managed to cover just about every aspect of what you don't want to do.
ok that makes sense, I have about 3 ft of 10An line between the turbo oil outlet and the pump. I also have another check at the oil outlet so no oil can back drain into the turbo when the pump is shut off.
This kid has done a lot of things that (for very good reason) were never done before, but that sure hasn't stopped his attempts at epic failure.
If genius here had any idea about fluids, he would have known to run two restrictors and place them right at the feed hole in the turbine center section.
Okay why do i need to run a restrictor before the turbo inlet? Why not at the Tee fitting of the oil sender unit?
Both methods will recieve the same amount of psi of oil pressure therefore the same amount of oil flow so it realiy doesn't matter where you place them. Wouldn't you agree?
And their is good reasons why I haven't copied someones else oil setup b/c everybody has different answers of what the correct setup was so I decided to test it out myself and find out who's really right. I have taken others people considerations and have taken their advice and even applied them. The majority of the people suggest to run less then a .065 restrictor, i've taken their considerations and did just that and it fixed one of my problems. Im doing things one step at a time.
From what I can see, his issue is that the pump pickup is almost level with the turbo drain, so even with a self priming pump, it needs to fill that drain tube and will somewhat back-up into the turbo due to the horrid design.
I think thats exactly whats going on. The oil pick on the pumps is mounted horizontally and leveled with the oil drain flange. So the oil drain line has to be completly filled first before the pumps can suck any oil and this somewhat backs up into the turbo.
I can mount the oil pick up pumps vertically instead so the lines don't have to be filled up first however It will sacrafice ground clearance as it will hang 2 inches lower then the frame rail due to the bluky design of the shurflow pumps.
Thanks for giving me some insite and explanation of the issues im having now.
What solutions do you suggest I should do? Check valve like dans auto suggestion or should I try out DavenF1 solutions of making a baffle and venting the oil pan?
Okay why do i need to run a restrictor before the turbo inlet? Why not at the Tee fitting of the oil sender unit?
Both methods will recieve the same amount of psi of oil pressure therefore the same amount of oil flow so it realiy doesn't matter where you place them. Wouldn't you agree?
No, it's not the same. A restrictor that feeds a larger line will reduce flow and reduce the oil pressure spraying oil onto the 100k rpm turbo shaft. This is why you put the restrictor right at the turbo oil inlet. So you retain max pressure up to the restrictor, and it sprays out into the turbo housing. Where you have it, you lose a ton of pressure and kill the oil flow, even though seemingly the same quantity of oil is coming out.
fluids 101.
Quote:
And their is good reasons why I haven't copied someones else oil setup b/c everybody has different answers of what the correct setup was so I decided to test it out myself and find out who's really right. I have taken others people considerations and have taken their advice and even applied them. The majority of the people suggest to run less then a .065 restrictor, i've taken their considerations and did just that and it fixed one of my problems. Im doing things one step at a time.
Most people run a .065 restrictor on EACH TURBO. Not on a -4 that t-'s off to feed two of them.
Good job compounding the oil feed issues you created by putting the restrictor in a retarded location.
Regarding the pumps, you need to take them off the do it right. Even the way they are now with the oil lines running under the frame rails is playing russian roulette.
What you're doing here is trying to bandaid a lack of foresight when mounting the turbos because you had your head too far up your ass to listen when you posted here at first. You were too arrogant about 'schooling people' and bragging about some V6 shitbox.
if the pump is running it doesn't matter where the oil goes back into the main pan.
