Well I plan on putting check valves in after the turbo eventually. But I gota take care of one issue at a time b/c right now i have a bigger issue with oil going past the seals with oil being dumped into a bucket. check valves wont' have anything to do with this issue since oil is being freely dumped into bucket.
I know you've been preaching to put check valves before the turbo. I still don't see why it needs it before turbo, since before the turbo is always under pressure. Oil will never travel above the turbo towards the feed side.
if your turbo is full of oil, you may think its blowing past the seal when its just the oil that drained back into it. Depending on how long your lines are, quite a bit of oil will be pooling back down. AS far as the check vavle before the turbo, it will be required as all the oil from the sending unit t to the turbo will drain down and leak past the seal once the return pump is off. trust me on this, I learned the hard way. Put your check valves in first, they should have a .5psi cracking pressure, then see what happens...I would be suprized if your oil problem is not solved after that, you also do not need an restrictor at the sending unit, just one right before each turbo. I used the same size you are and was fine.
Ya what your stating is oil issues after shuttig off engine. Unless im not reading what you wrote correctly.
Im having the oil bleeding out of these new turbos while the engine is running
This might be a stupid question BUT..... are you 100% sure that your scavenge pumps are plumbed and flowing the correct way ???...
I work with a lot of different turbos and the chances of getting bad cartridges from OEM is very slim.. One thing for sure, you are getting way to much psi to the units for that kind of blow by..
*edit* just re-read the part where you say the pump lines were removed... Dunno ?? Are you sure the drain elbows do not have restrictors ?.. you're really going to have to install an in-line psi guage so we know exactly what pressure is getting to the turbos.
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What a relief...my I.Q. test results came back negative...
'96 RT/10..tooooo expensive to run!.
'05 ZX-10R..it will run 9's at the next track day!.
'98 Rotty.. tooooo lazy to run!.
'08 Cane Corso.. keeps trying to run away!.
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Last edited by Username : December 26th, 2007 at 05:23 PM.
Alright guys Just did some more testing. I hooked up an oil pressure gauge after the .065 restrictor to see how much pressure there is. Before restrictor its 45 psi at idle
With the .065 restrictor at the Tee of the oil sender unit Its getting 25 psi of oil pressure after the restrictor at idle.
If 5 psi is sufficient at idle im thinking of trying to lower down that psi some around the 15 psi range at idle.
What are your guys thoughts? is 25 psi at idle tad to high for idle?
I haven't done a high rpm rev test yet to see what the oil pressure is. Don't know why this turbo is sensitive to oil pressure.
P.S to username. ya those 90 degree eblow drain fittings dont' have restrictors in them. They are just standard summit -10 an 90 degree fittings.
do the pumps flow more then what you're supplying to the turbos?
That brings up a good question. Each of those pumps are rated at 1 gallon per minute shurflow 8000 series. I got two of them
With the pumps lines disconnected and oil draining into a bucket I got 1 liter in 1 minute at idle. I still got oil bleeding thru the turbos without any involvement with the pumps.
But to answer your question I guess I would have to say yes the pumps would suck more then 1 liter.
The 25 psi test I did today was with the pumps actually connected this time. Should I test it without the pumps involvement and see if the oil feed pressure psi changes? I doubt it will but who knows?
yes it may be a little high, what size feed line do you have? I used 4an to the turbos and 10an out of the turbos and out of the pump. Note check valves will also add a little restriction to the system.
yes it may be a little high, what size feed line do you have? I used 4an to the turbos and 10an out of the turbos and out of the pump. Note check valves will also add a little restriction to the system.
Hey thanks for the input. Ya I had a feeling 25 psi at the oil feed lines were a bit to high for idle.
Im using -4an feed lines with -10 out of the turbos to oil pan.
Ya i definetly need to add a little bit more restriction to get it around the 15-20 psi range at idle. A check valve should do the trick or i can use a custom orfice tad smaller then .065.
Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.
The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.
Call Garrett...they should be able to tell you what restrictor to go with based on your delivery psi. but I'm thinking try a .40
i just love the schooling andy is giving on this......
lol... well, he did admit his mistakes in his "whoops, I fucked up" thread...
Least we should do now is try to help him not blow up his motor.. hate to see those "Decided to part out the car" threads...
Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.
The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.
Call Garrett...they should be able to tell you what restrictor to go with based on your delivery psi. but I'm thinking try a .40
Ya I was thinking the same thing .040 restrictor should do the trick. Anybody know where I can buy these type of restrictors? I'll probably get extras .045 .050 and see which one works best.
Despite the headaches im going through I do enjoy testing everything out. Im glad I hooked up the oil psi gauge after the restrictor on the oil feed lines. Now I know exactly of whats going.
*edit* Found some male x female restrictor orfice on mcmaster with assorted sizes.
It's likely once you get the feed straightened out you will have to make vented+baffled oil pans to pump out of as I described our you will get smoke under hard cornering.
You need to drill a .030 hole in a small disk of 1/16 thick aluminum and sandwich it in between the the T fitting to the turbos and the feed side from the motor. Make sure to do the sending unit as and check valve I described to you in the earlier post, that way you see turbo oil pressure on the stock gauge after the restrictions and check valve.
This is a common newby problem and I'm surprised you were not aware of how to solve it.
It's likely once you get the feed straightened out you will have to make vented+baffled oil pans to pump out of as I described our you will get smoke under hard cornering.
You need to drill a .030 hole in a small disk of 1/16 thick aluminum and sandwich it in between the the T fitting to the turbos and the feed side from the motor. Make sure to do the sending unit as and check valve I described to you in the earlier post, that way you see turbo oil pressure on the stock gauge after the restrictions and check valve.
This is a common newby problem and I'm surprised you were not aware of how to solve it.
-Dave
Hey thanks for showing me the earlier post you made. I like that idea to put the sending unit after the restrictor so if some crap gets stuck in the restrictor orfice I would know.
I beg to differ that its a common newby problem. As others had success with .065 restrictor (dans auto) while I have not. , Another person recommended . .040 and you recommended .030. I see this as an issue that hasn't been fully resolved quite yet.
Also You and Dan auto recommend one way check valves at the feed side, yet neaither of you having giving me reasons for this? Im not trying to say you guys are wrong, I would just like some explanation of why a check valve on a side that has high pressure? Oil will never go reverse into the feed lines. It just doesn't make sence. I have a feeling you guys are doing this b/c it worked for one guy so don't ask questions just do it. Are you guys using a check valve as purely an additional restriction source?
If you can give me a clear logical explanation for a check valve on the feed side then i'll go ahead and get some and do it.
thanks for the heads up about the venting source for oil pan. I'll see how it works with the journal bearings first and try that technique out if i got issues.
Thanks for the help guys and sorry if my quesetions are repetitive to you guys. Im just trying to get a better understanding thats all.
Hey thanks for showing me the earlier post you made. I like that idea to put the sending unit after the restrictor so if some crap gets stuck in the restrictor orfice I would know.
I beg to differ that its a common newby problem. As others had success with .065 restrictor (dans auto) while I have not. , Another person recommended . .040 and you recommended .030. I see this as an issue that hasn't been fully resolved quite yet.
Also You and Dan auto recommend one way check valves at the feed side, yet neaither of you having giving me reasons for this? Im not trying to say you guys are wrong, I would just like some explanation of why a check valve on a side that has high pressure? Oil will never go reverse into the feed lines. It just doesn't make sence. I have a feeling you guys are doing this b/c it worked for one guy so don't ask questions just do it. Are you guys using a check valve as purely an additional restriction source?
If you can give me a clear logical explanation for a check valve on the feed side then i'll go ahead and get some and do it.
thanks for the heads up about the venting source for oil pan. I'll see how it works with the journal bearings first and try that technique out if i got issues.
Thanks for the help guys and sorry if my quesetions are repetitive to you guys. Im just trying to get a better understanding thats all.
The check valve for the feed side is to keep oil from the engine from draining into the turbos when the car is off. The engine oil gravity feeds/drains and pools into the turbos, filling them up and leaking past the seals, filling the intake and exhaust housings.
The check valve for the feed side is to keep oil from the engine from draining into the turbos when the car is off. The engine oil gravity feeds/drains and pools into the turbos, filling them up and leaking past the seals, filling the intake and exhaust housings.
I am done helping you.
-Dave.
LOL, I told him the same thing, after you shut the motor all the oil left in the line will drain to the lowest point (the turbo!!!) I would bet if he just put the check valves in he would have no more problems. All cars have differant pressure, so the restrictors may be differant from car to car.
The check valve for the feed side is to keep oil from the engine from draining into the turbos when the car is off. The engine oil gravity feeds/drains and pools into the turbos, filling them up and leaking past the seals, filling the intake and exhaust housings.
I am done helping you.
-Dave.
Okay that makes some sense however I don't think it applies to me.
On My setup my oil lines are actually below the turbos. they are mounted low in the frame rails and they climb back up to the turbo. So I should'nt have to worry about putting a check valve in.
If I do notice any oil pooling after I get the right restrictor I'll go ahead and put those check valves in. Thanks for the help.
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