Tell me whats so wrong with my wastegate location The former FRP, since GTS Steveo here couldn't give me an answer or reason. Your the car guru so lets hear your smart answer.
Its at a Y junction right at the collector. Probably the best spot possible to put a wastegate.
The car is running! got it running today. Man its sounds MEAN. The Tma Liquid Venom Kit IS ALIVE!!! Big thanks to DansAuto for his input. He's been quite helpful on here. Wish more people were like him on this site. A lot of douche bags on this site but thats fine I get a big laugh at it when one of them thinks they can school me. Will post vids of the viper running this weekend for the unbelievers.
PS> The former FRP where's that turbo kit you claimed that you have built. Let me guess, its top secret and you can't display it until after you display your product at a big car autoshow correct?
Tell me whats so wrong with my wastegate location The former FRP, since GTS Steveo here couldn't give me an answer or reason. Your the car guru so lets hear your smart answer.
Its at a Y junction right at the collector. Probably the best spot possible to put a wastegate.
Ever heard of tangential flow? How about equal flow from all runners? How about putting it near the turbo? I am not gonna edjamacate you for free. $6.99 a minute for responses after this. My turbo kit is on a competition car. I don't intend on revealing components of its design to my competition until after I graduate. That will be about 2 years for my masters, so you are gonna have to wait awhile. You can see pictures of my car in around 6-8 months though if you like!
Don't you usually want the wastegate as close to the turbo as possible or its not going to be very accurate?
I suguesting Reading corky bells book Turbocharging. Its basically has turbo101 lessons.
In the book they state the best possible configuration will resemble a Y pipe design after the colllector.
The worst designs will use one primary pipe or the backside of a log header before the collectors.
okay design would be 90degree angle after the collector.
Best design is Y angle anywhere after the collector.
Now you may see them further down close to the turbo like the common setup but thats b/c people running single turbos must do this. They have to vent from both headers and thats the main reason why you seem them further downstream. For twins its doesn't matter that it has to be far downstream each header gets its own wastegate.
Ever heard of tangential flow? How about equal flow from all runners? How about putting it near the turbo? I am not gonna edjamacate you for free. $6.99 a minute for responses after this. My turbo kit is on a competition car. I don't intend on revealing components of its design to my competition until after I graduate. That will be about 2 years for my masters, so you are gonna have to wait awhile. You can see pictures of my car in around 6-8 months though if you like!
BHAHAHHAHAHhahahahhahaha.
Equal flow from all runners is anywhere after the collector you dumbass. hahahahahah. Plus my wastegate locations are at the tangents.
Ya Sure your turbo kit is on a competition car. Tell me more about this soo top secret immaginative car of yours that you can't display.
Ya definetly sounds like you need to stick around at your automotive school a little bit longer. Definetly need to learn a thing or two
Equal flow from all runners is anywhere after the collector you dumbass. hahahahahah. Plus my wastegate locations are at the tangents.
Ya Sure your turbo kit is on a competition car. Tell me more about this soo top secret immaginative car of yours that you can't display.
Ya definetly sounds like you need to stick around at your automotive school a little bit longer. Definetly need to learn a thing or two
To anyone who knows anything about fluid dynamics and thermo (Afterall, that is my concentration), I don't even need to say anything. You just dug your own grave.
Last edited by The Former PFR : November 29th, 2007 at 09:00 PM.
To anyone who knows anything about fluid dynamics and thermo (Afterall, that is my concentration), I don't even need to say anything. You just dug your own grave.
hahahah explain then smart guy.
Fluid dynamics is quite different from exhaust gas but anyways explain it and lets see if you can actually impress us with your vast knowledge of thermodynamics. Explain or draw diagrams of why my wastegate setup is wrong and not ideal. Show me a turbo viper setup that has a wastegate setup better then mine.
Fluid dynamics is quite different from exhaust gas but anyways explain it and lets see if you can actually impress us with your vast knowledge of thermodynamics. Explain or draw diagrams of why my wastegate setup is wrong and not ideal. Show me a turbo viper setup that has a wastegate setup better then mine.
Jesus Christ, are you really that stupid? Honestly, just stop. Every argument shows vast misconceptions. Not the little kind that someone chuckles at, the kind that just shoot your credibility to hell. For instance, not understanding tangential, or saying modeling exhaust isn't fluid dynamics. I present you a nearly perfect wastegate setup (Passenger side turbo especially):
Ya the cpe is pretty good. Especially passenger side.
You still haven't told me whats so horribly wrong with my design yet. Its angle of entry to wastegate is very simliar to CPE driver header. Its vented to the atmosphere offering less restriction then a wastegate thats vented back into dump pipe.
Sorry that you feel that im corning you. But I have to ask these questions b/c you keep evading them. I also highly quesiton your credability.
Fluid dynamics is quite different from exhaust gas but anyways explain it and lets see if you can actually impress us with your vast knowledge of thermodynamics. Explain or draw diagrams of why my wastegate setup is wrong and not ideal. Show me a turbo viper setup that has a wastegate setup better then mine.
Uh, did you have high school physics? Fluid dynamics is an area of "Fluid Mechanics", dealing with liquid or gas in motion. Also, thermodynamics deals with changes in pressure, temperature, and volume on a physics model (system). Do you think that these two little areas may just in fact be useful yo understand when doing an exhaust or turbo system?
And as for your "reading Corky Bells book"... Yeah, he has changed some of his thinking since he wrote that book a while ago. He used to be a huge champion of large end-tanks and small cores for intercooler. He has since then, reversed that. I love how nobody can school you.
-Tim
Here's what is comes down to, Andy. I could talk (in person) about the fluid and thermal design of a turbo system for a good hour and a half straight (actually held a small class last night for some freshman and sophomores doing just that). I love it and it is a huge part of my life that I plan on continuing through grad school and probably in my professional career. I am also lazy enough to not want to attempt in a post to describe any of it, because anything I type in 10-15 minutes is gonna have to be so dumbed down to fit on the page that I am not going to be able to pull it off effectively. Two, I am not gonna be able to easily draw on a board and show equations ect. Lastly, I really don't feel the need to educate you on the subject that you are so arrogant about that I highly doubt you will take any of it seriously anyway. I probably have 20-25k invested alone in fluid and thermo based classes alone and as I was told the other day by a prof I respect, "As much as you love to talk about this stuff to anyone willing to listen, don't just give it away." I really am not going to be too upset if you don't want to lend me any credibility. The fact is that the people that matter on this and other boards, including several people who have had problems, have found my knowledge to be of value to them and if you ask nicely, I will help you in most any way I can as far as trying to diagnose problems or even give tips on system design ect (mostly on other boards).
Andy, to combat PFR's laziness, I am just bored enough to explain through a picture I made for you. Do you see the WG? That is a wastegate. The red lines represent the gas flow from an exhaust port through the manifold and into the WG or to the turbo. The blue lines are gas that has gone through the turbo.
Now, do you see why your wastegate is not in the best possible spot? I works, but could be better. If the exhaust had a straight (er) shot to the diaphram, then it becomes more effecient and will bleed off exhaust quicker, more accurately and more effectively. Does that answer your question?
-Tim
Andy, Listen for what you are doing the wastegate location is really not a big concern. For an all out system it is critical. If you are just looking for a couple hundred horse anywhere is fine. Putting them to far from the turbo builds additional back pressure as the gasses have to travel down to the turbo build pressure then when released through the wastegate create all kinds of turbulence. It will make them not react properly due to fluxuations in gas pressure before and after the wastegate. As far as arguing with Former PFR you will be fighting an uphill battle. Highly educated person. He may not be the best mechanic in the world but him is pretty dag on smart.
By the way that is just the watered down explanation.
Andy, to combat PFR's laziness, I am just bored enough to explain through a picture I made for you. Do you see the WG? That is a wastegate. The red lines represent the gas flow from an exhaust port through the manifold and into the WG or to the turbo. The blue lines are gas that has gone through the turbo.
Now, do you see why your wastegate is not in the best possible spot? I works, but could be better. If the exhaust had a straight (er) shot to the diaphram, then it becomes more effecient and will bleed off exhaust quicker, more accurately and more effectively. Does that answer your question?
-Tim
Ya that I already know. What you drew was CPE passenger side header. His Driver side is no where near like what you drew. It resembles a setup simliar to mine.
But thanks for taking the extra effort to draw it out.
Honestly If i had the space I would've done it like you mentioned. But there was no possibe way I can do it with the style headers I have. I know heffner has but thats b/c their air filters are not parrell like my air filters are. I'll take pics of my kit this weekend of the air filters to better explain it.
I was stuck with my header design so i had to pick the best spot possible.
